Harmaline, harmine, and tetrahydroharmine are some of the beta-carbolines found in Peganum harmala, which are said to be responsible for the convulsive, anxiogenic, and memory enhancing effects of the plant. They are serotonin antagonists, CNS stimulants, hallucinogens, and extremely potent, short term MAO inhibitors.

Beta-carbolines also occur naturally in humans and other animals, playing a role in moods as well as dreaming. According to one theory, when our endogenous MAOI inhibits MAO, this allows endogenous DMT to give rise to dreams (if we’re asleep) or visions (if we’re awake). Theoretically, it should be possible for a Yogi, or a man with perfect control over his body and brain, to induce a spontaneous visionary state (not unlike that which is caused by drinking ayahuasca) by excreting DMT while inhibiting the excretion of MAO or excreting an endogenous MAOI.

Let’s take a deeper look at some of the more known alkaloids in Syrian rue.

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Harmaline
Harmaline has entheogenic as well as anti-bacterial properties. Once used to treat Parkinson’s disease, harmaline is a central nervous system stimulant and a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A (RIMA). It may also be an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor as well as promote metabolism of serotonin to melatonin. Its effects as a a histamine N-methyltransferase inhibitor may explain its wakefulness-promoting effects.

Harmaline is said to be about twice as potent as harmine.

According to TiHKAL, pure harmaline ingested orally may create a 5-8 hour intoxication. Taking 150 mg induced the following experience:

In an hour and a quarter, there was a rapid-onset intoxication and I felt a little unstable. And a little bit numb. There was an unusual shimmering, in my lateral vision when I turned my head to the side. Everything was just a little bit down. Music was pretty much normal but I was missing the higher frequencies. Even light food sat heavily, and I wasn’t too hungry (and I was remembering to watch what I eat, with this monoamineoxidase stuff). Sex was difficult — probably due to some reduced sensations. I feel that this compound is unlikely to be attractive to most people, as its major effects are an intoxication with a clouding of thoughts and some disruption of musical relationships.

After taking 175 mg orally, Shulgin writes:

After about one hour I found myself becoming relaxed and a bit sloppy. By the end of the second hour, I had peaked, and was pretty much at baseline after five hours. At the peak, three areas of disturbance were obvious. There were obvious tracers — when looking at a bright object, and moving your eyes to the side, the image of the object lags in its leaving the visual field, and it leaves in the opposite direction. As to the auditory, it seemed as if the higher frequencies of music were attenuated, and the lower frequencies amplified. And as to touch, there is a definite numbing. I had no appetite, and the little I ate didn’t taste particularly good.

A 200 mg dose prompted the following experience report:

At about the two hour point I remember three things. The first was the effort to bring into reality the visual image of a face that was playing with my eyes-closed imagery. I got the mouth and, after a bit of work, I got the eyes. So I concentrated on the nose and it came into view, finally, but it was upside down. The second and third things were more easily defined. Nausea and diarrhea. Fortunately they alternated. This is not my trip of choice.

With 300 mg, Shulgin reports:

I was in a psychotherapy environment, so there was some suggestions and leading that influenced my responses. But I have great difficulty reliving my experience, in fact I don’t remember anything. I have only disconnected images. There is a girl — me — in front of a church on a dusty road, myself at communion, receiving the Host from an invisible hand at a grandiose alter. I feel that I am going crazy. Something inside. It is not anxiety. It is not depression. It is some of each, plus irritation and disorientation. I am dead but still have to come back to life. I am facing a reality of mine that I cannot accept.

400 mg was the highest dose that generated a bearable experience:

This is Fluka material, and has a nasty taste. I felt completely immobilized and sick to my stomach. Closed eyed visuals yielded native women, ‘organic’ colors and shapes, and a black panther!

Harmine
A central nervous system stimulant that is entheogenic at high doses.

The harmala alkaloid harmine, once known as telepathine and banisterine, is structurally related to harmaline. Both are reversible MAOIs (RIMAs) of the MAO-A isoform of the enzyme. (But do not inhibit MAO-B.)

Alexander Shulgin suggested that harmine may be a breakdown product of harmaline.

Harmine may have some medicinal benefits, including insecticidal properties, reducing glutamate toxicity, anti-cancer and anti-tumor properties (cytotoxicity), promoting differentiation of bone-forming cells and cells in the cartilage, inhibiting the formation of bone resorbing cells, treating type 1 and type 2 diabetes, and more. It may also be anti-bacterial, and in the past was used to treat Parkinson’s disease.

Oral or intravenous harmine doses ranging from 30–300 mg have caused agitation, bradycardia or tachycardia, blurred vision, hypotension, paresthesias, and hallucinations.

The plasma elimination half-life of harmine is on the order of 1–3 hours.

Researchers who wanted to investigate whether harmine has hallucinogenic effects conducted 11 self-experiments in which they took 25-750 mg of harmine. They characterized their experience as

a retreat from one’s surroundings and as a pleasant relaxation with a mildly reduced ability to concentrate. Short-term and elementary optic hallucinatory phenomena were observed only to the degree that they would otherwise also appear naturally during reduced contact with one’s surroundings. With dosages above 300 mg, such undesirable vegetative and neurological symptoms as dizziness, nausea, and ataxia became more apparent, precluding any increase in dosage above 750 mg.

Tetrahydroharmine
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) is another interesting alkaloid found in Peganum harmala. While it does not seem to play a significant role in the inhibition of MAO, it may contribute to the psychoactivity of the plant indirectly by its weak action as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

At a dosage of 300 mg pure THH, Shulgin reports similar effects to what he experienced with 100 milligrams of harmaline. (“I have tried this on two occasions, essentially without effect.”)

Syrian Rue Experiences
Alexander Shulgin shares his experience with Peganum harmala in his entry on Harmaline (TiHKAL, #13). He ground the seeds and placed them in capsules. 2 grams produced no effects, while with 5 grams, he reported:

At about 1:45 tinnitus was obvious. At 2:00 precise movements were problematical and nystagmus was noticeable. Mild nausea and diarrhea, but no vomiting. I was sensitive to light and sound, and retired to a dark room. Hallucinations were intense, but only with the eyes closed. They consisted, initially, of a wide variety of geometrical patterns in dark colors, getting more intense as time went on. They disappeared when the eyes were opened. Although the loose bowels and nausea were pretty constant through the first part of the trip, I was not afraid. It was as if the “fear circuits” in the brain had been turned off. The geometric shapes evolved into more concrete images, peoples faces, movies of all sorts playing at high speed, and animal presences such as snakes. It was like vivid and intense dreaming except that I remembered most of it afterwards. In another hour things became manageable and I could go out in public. My sex drive was pleasantly enhanced, and I slept very well.

Taking 7 grams made him very sick for 24 hours. This suggests that the safe dosage for dried seeds is probably 2-4 grams (when taken in conjunction with DMT) or 3-5 grams (when taken on its own).

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Shulgin also experimented with an extract made from Syrian rue seeds. After ingesting 20 grams of this extract he wrote:

The is equivalent, probably, to a gram or so of the harmala alkaloids. This was ground up material extracted with hot dilute lemon juice. Within a half hour, I found myself both trippy and sleepy. Then I became quite disorientated, nauseous, and with an accelerated heart beat. I had the strong sensation of moving backwards, drifting, with faint visuals under my eyelids. Restraining the vomiting urge was an ongoing problem. I could have gone out of body quite easily, except that I was completely anchored by the nausea. After about three hours, I knew that it had peaked, and I went to sleep and experienced intense and strange dreams. The entire experience was a conflict between tripping and being sick. I want to explore this more.

Taking 28 g Peganum harmala seed extract took some time at first…

I sat up late one night drinking gulp after gulp of tea from about an oz. of seeds, periodically adding more water and simmering. This process took several hours, and though I had read up on harmaline, I didn’t know quite what to expect. Suddenly it hit me like a wall. It was starting to get light outside and as I shifted my gaze, zebra-like stripes of light and dark spiraled off the perimeter of the window silhouettes. Every time I shifted my focus my visual field would shudder and swirl before settling down. This visual effect had a physicality unlike those any other entheogen I’d experienced. Rather than patterns revealing greater order in sensation, these were waves of chaos revealing no particular order and urging the mind to retreat from the disturbing realm of sensation. Accompanying this was a pronounced auditory buzz. Lying down and closing my eyes I left the physical symptoms behind and explored the vivid spontaneous imaginations evoked by this state. Unfortunately, it is getting light, which made it harder to shut out the distracting world of sensation. I resolved to conduct future sessions in the night-time (and always in a quiet undisturbed place).

But a later, second attempt worked much quicker:

A second trial was made at the same level. This time it came on very fast. That tremendous buzz on the other side of which are the wondrous realms of the subconscious. The most memorable impressions from this trip were of weird animals. I imagined myself spinning on a merry-go-round of strange winged creatures. I started to feel very sick and negotiated my way to the bathroom to face the inevitable — voiding from both orifices simultaneously. It proved cathartic, and released me to experience the state more fully. I remember traveling to jungle-like places, full of imagery of vines, fountains, and animals. Minutes seemed like hours as I roamed in these spaces. Though the sensory effects were very disturbing when I got up, given high dose level, I could easily ignore my body when laying down and traveling in my mind.

Another interesting report from Ayahuasca Analogues (DeKorne), suggesting that Syrian rue could be a potent dream herb even on its own.

I once ingested 3 grams of crushed seeds (encapsulated). […] After one hour the P. harmala laid me out. I was unable to stand for the next four hours due to extreme dizziness. Lying down, mind racing, it took much willpower just to get comfortable. I saw very articulate visions of naked women in black and white. There were other visions too: black and white, no color at all! Very lucid dream-like, in that I could manipulate the visions at will effortlessly. Perhaps a gram or two before bed would be useful for dream work.

Compared to Banisteriopsis caapi, the original ayahuasca plant, Syrian rue is said to be “less heavy, and the entity more casual, garrulous and intimate. The caapi entity seems more formal, more experienced with human contact, especially in health and psychology, and seems to be a more powerful teacher.”

There are many experience reports to be found on Erowid and elsewhere from people who tried various combinations of Syrian rue and other psychoactive plants. I’ve chosen to include here some experiences written by people who took Syrian rue alone rather than as a potentiator of other drugs.

One person took 15 grams of Syrian rue extract. He summarized it:

The whole experience peaked/hit in about 2 hours, lasted about 5-6 hours. All in all, highly interesting, HIGHLY visual but limited to intense tracers and visual field ‘gliding’ when I moved my head around (the TV would actually follow along with my visual field after turning away from it. No profound mental insights, only weird daydreams that lead to nothing and made no sense, just entertaining. I still feel mental clouding as this experience was of last night).

The same person followed up his experience a few days later, saying that for several days he

had very unusual dreams, to the point that I can remember them quite distinctly. My REM-stage of sleep has been totally overloaded with crazy, out of this world dreams (more so then usual anyways), some pleasurable, and almost mood-lifting upon waking. Not the type of ‘cool’ dream that you wake up disappointed because it was only a dream. Mainly dreams of past memories, but distorted at the same time, and fun dreams, like floating and flying, etc.

Another person who took 3 grams seeds described his own afterglow experience with Syrian rue as “divine.”

Another person reported her experience with a very large dose of 15 grams seeds. Interestingly, she suggests that the “seeds were used to dye carpets in the ‘Aladdin’ era of time; the carpet makers would get the Syrian Rue absorbed into their skin, causing them to hallucinate and feel that they were ‘flying’ on the carpets.” She described her experience, which she shared with her husband:

The duration lasted about six hours, after effects lasted until I fell asleep that night. […] The effects could be described similar to the opiate family. Almost immediately after ingesting the drink I began vomiting. The effects kicked in almost simultaneously, the bathroom spinning before me and I was in a ‘heat haze’ (as if heat were rising from the ground, this was my vision at the moment). I heard buzzing in my head even though there was nothing there. I felt faint, dizzy and weak. It became hard to focus and move. I made my way back to the couch and watched the news, with the haze still continuing. Constant vomiting, impatience and anxiety. My husband described a ‘rushing’ feeling, similar to ecstasy. […] I could not function at all. I couldn’t bring myself to plug in my charger; this task was way too complicated and absorbed too much energy from me that I didn’t even have. I felt weaker and weaker and could only curl up in a fetal position with visions running through my head. […] I recall having visions of touching death. I can’t stress the fear that I constantly had of knowing how close I was to the verge of dying.

One person took 7 grams of Syrian rue seed tea and had an out-of-body experience:

The neighbor’s lawn mower was sounding as it always did and then very quickly the sound blended with every other sound in the universe into a cosmic familiar ‘OM’. […] I spewed for what seemed like hours while my closed eye visuals quickly overwhelmed me. I couldn’t handle the input my open eyes provided me and when they were closed I was seeing an endless stream of eyeballs coming directly at me and felt them passing through my head. […] The interesting part of the experience was that I could leave my sickened body at will and experience other cartoonish realities and then snap back into my body and promptly vomit again. My visions were set in the jungle and the dessert. I would feel sand between my toes then I was back in my bed and I would immediately throw up on my bedroom carpet. […] Years later I tried the substance again but heeded the warnings about dangerous combinations of food, alcohol etc. This time it wasn’t sickening like before but also there weren’t the hallucinations, OBEs or near death experience.

Here’s another interesting experience with a tea made from 1.5 tablespoons of Syrian rue, exemplifying the hypnotic properties of this plant:

Within 30 minutes I started to feel somewhat sleepy/somewhat trippy. […] At 1 hour […] I lay down on my bed. Felt strong ‘presence’. Steady noises sounded phased or warbled. Heart-rate was worrying. Began to feel strong sensations of moving backwards, drifting, faint visuals under my eyelids. […] I was very sedated and somewhat disoriented. I was having dream-visions (like intense day-dreams), these visions would go for a while then begin to get really intense/confused […] Fairly dissociative, I often lost track of my body (except when it was time to vomit). I also several times had very clear still images of being outside looking up a the stars. I had the impression that, where I not constantly being drawn back into nausea, I could have gone out-of-body fairly easily. […] After an 3 hours, (and it peaked towards the end of this period) I finally felt like I was not going to be sick anymore, and went to sleep, to very intense and strange dreams.

One person had an out-of-body experience after taking an alcohol extracted Syrian rue concentrate in capsules. Characterizing the general experience with the plant as “waking dreaming” and “a sense of flight to distant places” he writes:

I was floating in a disembodied realm of turquoise passageways and fog. […] It was neither heaven nor hell, but a sort of purgatory of lost souls. I imagined I might meet up with someone who had arrived there by a similar route. I listened to beings who inhabited this realm explain things to me with absolute authority. I felt there was much I understood on one level, but I couldn’t retain it on a conscious level. Nevertheless the sense of something gained, something deeply therapeutic, stayed with me. Periodically events in the room triggered vivid images.

Ayahuasca Analogs (Anahuasca) – Recipes, Experiences, etc.
As we have seen, Peganum harmala contains MAO-inhibiting beta-carbolines, and thus may be useful as an ayahuasca analog.

Before presenting some experience reports, here is the basic recipe:

Ayahuasca Recipe with Syrian Rue (Syrian Ruyahuasca)
Crush 2-5 g Peganum harmala seeds to a pot. According to Shulgin, 1 teaspoon rue seeds weighs 3 grams and contains 60-180 mg alkaloids. So if you don’t have a scale, use about 1 teaspoon.
Add the DMT-containing plant (see below; actually don’t, since it’s illegal in most if not all countries).
Add lime/lemon juice or vinegar (optional), as well as enough water and boil all the ingredients for several hours (or at least 30 minutes), adding more water as needed.
Let cool, and drink.
Chewing sliced ginger may help counteract the taste and nausea it may cause.
DMT-Containing Plants Used for Making Anahuasca
Classic Ayahuasca analog – with Chacruna (Psychotria viridis).
Jerumahuasca or Mimosahuasca – with Mimosa tenuiflora or Mimosa scabrella. Other than classic ayahuasca, this preparation is said to be the most psychoactive and easy to tolerate.
Prairie Ayahuasca – with Desmanthus illinoensis root cortex (prairie mimosa, Illinois bundleweed, Illinois bundleflower). Especially popular in North America, pleasant experiences have been reported by those who tried this blend. In LSA/Desmanthus ayahuasca, a Argyreia nervosa seed is added for its LSA content, which makes this blend potentially dangerous.
Acaciahuasca – with Acacia phlebophylla, Acacia maindenii, or Acacia simlicifolia. Especially popular in Australia, this blend has been used with good success.
Reedhuasca or Phalahuasca – with Phragmites (Common Reed), Phalaris (Reed Grass), and Arundo donax (Giant Reed). These preparations can be dangerous.
Additional plants – Anadenathera peregrina, Desmodium, Lespedeza capitata, Mucuna pruriens, Diplopterys cabrerana, Virola, Dictyoloma incanescens, Limonia acidissima, Meliocope leptococca, Pilocarpus organensis, Vepris ampody, and Zanthoxylum arborescens.
Dangerous combinations – Peganum harmala is sometimes combined with San Pedro cactus, Peyote cactus (Peyohuasca), and Psilocybe mushrooms (Psilohuasca, also known as somahuasca).
Feel free to contact me for specific recipes.

Ayahuasca Experiences
Shulgin tried DMT together with an extract of Peganum harmala seeds.

3 grams extract with 40 mg DMT induced a mild experience, in which the “DMT was noticeably effective just over an hour following ingestion, and it built up to a peak rather quickly. It stayed there for an hour, then dropped off.”

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After taking 5 grams of the extract with 20 mg of DMT he wrote: “There was a feeling of aliveness and excitement, above and beyond the effects of this amount of harmel seeds alone.”

Here are some interesting Syrian Ruyahuasca [sic] experiences from Erowid:

One person used Acacia confusa as the DMT source. He writes:

The feminine overmind was undaunted by my resistance, and would cycle me through new states (out of body experiences, feelings of isolation and despair from the world I knew), […] Having failed to purge up to this point, the experience then changed to one of out-of-body isolation, periodically I would return to a pseudo-reality existing in my earthbound bathroom, […] Each time I felt reconnection to the world in this way, I was plunged deeper into a dissociative experience on the other side. […] The purge having been completed, the negativity that had been cyclically present in my being up to that point in the experience/life faded completely, and I entered a space I can only refer to as a heaven of sorts. Here I was greeted warmly by the feminine overmind and waves of warm colors washed over my soul. It was similar in coloration to the initial entry phase (red, purple, orange, gold), but the background was of a vast cloudscape in white, impressionistic in detail. Angelic beings were there and made their presence known by telepathic means. I was completely convinced of my dwelling there for the rest of eternity, and time lost all meaning. All that mattered was experiencing the warm feelings washing over my soul and the shifting colors on the palette. The feeling of universal love was ever-present.

Another person used Diplopterys cabrerana as the DMT-containing plant. He reports:

I spent most of my time ‘passed out’ either on the floor or on the bed. The state was like a lucid dream or an out of body experience. I had no control over anything. I hummed uncontrollably, the hum resembled something a Shaman would hum in ceremonies. I’d like to emphasize that I had zero control over the compulsions of my body. My hands were constantly twirling my hair, my hair got into my mouth, and my fingers got into my mouth. I teared up a lot of the time, most of the time without even knowing I was releasing any tears, tears of the awe I was experiencing. It was as if some spiritual guide was taking over my body. This programmed world didn’t interest me much, but the times that I would tune back shortly to this world, I was barely able to walk. My body waved in a very fluid motion. My mind was very much disassociated from my body. I felt like I was another being looking down at the body of another human. Again, I had zero control. Even when back in this world of ours, I felt like I had completely been taken over.

People often use Mimosa tenuiflora as a DMT source for Syrian Ruyahuasca, like this person, who writes:

Translucent holograms of individual’s faces began to drift towards me. In quick succession individuals I had encountered throughout my life drifted transparent and beautiful in front of my face. Each hologram pressed through my head providing me with startling psychic sensations in which I experienced visions from the lives of the individuals. Each face bushed through me providing the sensation of me being pushed through a sort of gelatinous electric membrane. […] After this I began to receive strange visions of elaborate carnival festival settings. But not just visions, I was THERE. Giant carnival tents, jeweled and towering, vibrating with sound and energy appeared before me and I entered into them. In these bizarre constructs a multitude of interdimensional beings, along with humans, and aliens and all sorts of other archetypal beings were celebrating SOMETHING. Typical ‘Greys’ (so called aliens, though psychic messages conveyed that these were actually the time travelling hyper evolved future of humankind) floated inches above the ground, though they only had rounded nubs for hands/feet and scrolling glowing alien text on their bodies. I encountered more entities which were time travelers, future versions of humanity, now totally alien in appearance. Energetic Beings glowed, their neural structures externally apparent and vibrantly pulsating with light. Networks of light and energy swung between and through all the entities. Elves, demons, goblins, faeries joined in the celebration.

Does S.R. contain THH? I had thought it was just a product of the reduction of harmaline in the seeds; not present in significant quantities in unprocessed seeds.

It is a fascinating plant. I always liked to read the experiences people have had with it, although a large part of them is usually dedicated to describing the physical illness that comes with ingesting the seeds / extract.

Somehow it's easy to forget how gross it feels, and easy to be tempted to trip with seeds again. But I will never take more than 4.5g—it's just not worth it.

I had drunk a S.R. tea on its own once, and while it felt like I could travel great distances in my mind I could never get over the nausea and vertigo. The "brain zaps" also make staying absorbed in the experience difficult. I believe this is a common phenomenon, no?

The way the rue spirit comes out in conjunction with mimosa hostilis is also interesting. This is the only other way I've been able to use it, just down to availability. Personally I find it dysphoric, a little empty, and cold. A harsh teacher? But it can show you great pleasures too...

In my experience, verified by examining the extracted crystals under a microscope, SR doesn't contain any THH. This may depend on where they are grown, substrain or other factors. Doing a magnesium hydrogen reduction the harmaline converts to THH, also verified with a microscope, which seems to be the best way to get THH out of the process. Harmaline, at least for me, is the main source of vertigo and nausea while THH doesn't have the same side effects.

Thank you bismillah for the great post about Syrian Rue! I've extracting harmalas from it for over a year now and have a good sense of the plant. But I still have not gotten any psychedelic experiences of it alone. Like tracers etc. Been taking up to 230mg of extract (don't know the propotions of harmaline/harmine) orally.



I'd like to do a magnesium reduction and wonder if you have any link to some instructions for it? I also would like to do the reduction with my not separated extract, so there will be both harmaline and harmine. I don't mind there being harmine left in the product.

SR is often around 50/50 harmine/harmaline. 230mg *should* get you tracers and monochromatic visuals, often very choppy. I've done up to 400mg, but that gets you into uncomfortable territory where you can't really function normally. Forget about walking around. How many manskes did you do? Maybe you need to take a little more if there are some impurities left from the extraction.

You can definitely do the reduction on a mixed harmalas batch. The harmine will stay as is, but the harmaline will convert to THH. This is what I wrote about it earlier.

===
Hi, read this entire thread and decided to do a magnesium reduction using acetic acid. I've tried zinc reductions before, and the only time I got decent results was using a test tube and swirling it manually for about 3 days.

Added 5g Mg ribbon to 150ml 7% acetic acid with 3000mg harmaline FB dissolved in a flask. I know this is an excessive amount of Mg, but I wanted to make sure I had enough to complete the reduction. Magnetic stirred on low speed for about one hour, plenty of bubbling. The bubbling suddenly slowed down and almost stopped, while there was still plenty of Mg ribbon left. I added more acetic acid, and the bubbling started again. Stirred for another hour, bubbling stopped and I left it for an hour. Filtered out the remaining Mg and measured PH at 4.8. Solution started with PH around 3.5 before reduction. The acetic acid reacted with the Mg, creating magnesium acetate and hydrogen, consuming itself in the process.

Based dropwise with ammonia 12% and got a nice clean precipitate, filtered and washed with ammonia 3% to make sure all magnesium acetate would dissolve. Dried and ended up with almost 4000mg of white powder. There is some Magnesium contamination in there, and I wonder if I should have kept washing it. Maybe water's ability to dissolve magnesium acetate is limited and I needed more liquid to fully get rid of it. Or there was some additional reaction between the THH and Mg, not sure. Anyway, the product is great and the reduction must have been close to 100%. We did toxicity testing by trying small amounts, and have used it in sessions several times with no bad side effects. Magnesium acetate is basically non-toxic, and you would need something like 861 grams of it for an LD50 dose, and the amount in a standard 200mg dose is around 50mg, so not too concerned. However, next time I will use more liquid and less Mg and calculate my moles.

I can tell the reduction is good, since I get no harmaline effects, no tracers, no ringing in the ears, no nausea. With my zinc reduction attempts I always ended up with some unreduced harmaline, which is easy to spot during consumption.

Yes, so I've heard. But the only thing I notice is a bit of a buzz in my body and a slight change of headspace. And that is after about 1,5h from oral. But I know it's working for MAOI since the DMT trips are long and of a different nature.

I normally do two manskes.

Thanks for the THH convert. I'm just need to get some ammonia. How important is it that is it absolute pure? I can get 'technical grade' but don't know it its good to use for this.

@BongQuixote - is there a dedicated thread for the Mg harmala reduction yet? I think it deserves one.

Soon I'll be trying a slow Mg reduction on mixed harmalas by dripping the acid in over the course of several hours, probably with an argon atmosphere too. I have a feeling that minimising the evolution of gaseous hydrogen will help yields because, of course, if H2 escapes as gas then it can't have reduced anything.

And why mixed harmalas? In my view, it should be far easier to separate harmine from THH than from harmaline, should the need arise.

You can always do an evaporation test to make sure it's pure. Ammonia is a gas so it evaporates quickly. Put some on a plate and make sure there is no residue once it has evaporated. I just use the ammonia I found at the local hardware store and it has been working fine.

I don't think there is. The "finetuning VDS protocol" thread in the Harmalas section contains this information, since reduction of harmaline to THH is part of the paper VDS wrote. More people trying Mg reduction and doing a proper peer review would be great so we can nail down the finer details. Why don't you start a thread?

This is a really good point. Separating harmine from harmaline is somewhat of a high-wire act, even with a good PH meter.

Great, thank you! I'll do that.


And about mixed harmalas. Yes I've hesitated to get a really good Ph meter for the separation and in general it seems a bit hard to do it good. I also think that I will use the harmalas mixed anyhow (but with some THH if I can make that). But how easy is it to later separate harmine from THH?

It's pretty easy and can be done by eye. The PH precipitation points are far apart.

Sounds great, I'll see if I can find instructions for that. Now I just need some ammonia.