Who is the government?

I personally don't buy the idea of everything being the fault of some higher power than my self, if there's chocolate I can buy sourced through slavery and chocolate that isn't, I'll buy the one that isn't.

Obviously we live in an imperfect world so it's impossible to be perfect in how we live our lives but to put the blame anywhere than on our selves is a massive cop out that just perpetuates the conditions that allow these issues to go on.

The people get the government they deserve.

Staggering. Taking personal responsibility for how your choices affect others and even the world and society as a whole? Ethical consumerism? You are onto something there, and I really wish others would follow your lead. Not just drugs, but evrything. The number of people who basically seem to share my world view that shop at WalMart, Amazon, support slave labor companies like H&M or Nike blows me away.

People are not going to stop doing drugs, it is economy proof. People get high to celebrate when times are good and to ameliorate themselves when they aren't. Adressing this compassionately and rationally, and overhauling basically everything about how we have been working around them (because that's what we have been trying to do, rather than incorporate them and use into normalcy) in order to allow people to be safe in their own lives is the only way to end the suffering that is caused by (at least America's if not the world's) the current paradigm. It sounds impossible, but just in the time I have been a member of this forum I have seen a drastic shift in consciousness around it, and have some tiny hope for humanity...

Maybe. IDK, I'm really high on caffiene right now, riding that pink cloud of hope. Talk to me at 5:00, we'll see.

I agree (personal accountability and responsibility). I think it should be noted how much we are products and victims of our circumstance and environment, which in turn influences each of us in different ways.

We can't help where we're born. So if born in the first world, it's hard not to be an addict to comfort and convenience. If one lives paycheck to paycheck, it may be harder to shop at more progressive outlets that are usually more expensive.

Everything is just so interwoven and complex.

One love

Could you think of any examples where this might not be true?

I think the drug war and everything that has gone with it, is one example of government that no one deserved. In that situation, I think governments deserve to have fingers pointed at them.

Boy, do I ever live paycheck to paycheck at the moment, but I still am able to at least try to be concious where I spend my money. Bespoke fashion, maybe not, but for the most part at least avoiding these gigantic retailers is neither hard nor more expensive. Going to a companies website rather than the bigsouthamericanriver, or buying meat from a butcher for example. I do not have dependants though, and am light on bills so it may be easier for me to say and do this than someone with kids and lots of payments and stuff.

Ugh. I just realized that all this could be construed as some real ugly virtue signalling as they call it, but I really dont think Im better than anyone, I just think some folks don't know how they can vote with their money. It is power after all and may be the only form of it some of us (like e) have.


100% with you on that one! I am not sure how much we deserved Trump, either. I know I didn't. That guy sucks!

Hey, you're good "virtue signaling" or not. I'm not offended. I felt like you were using yourself as an example, which I find to be a positive thing because not only is it authentic because you're speaking for yourself and no one else, but it also allows you to look at yourself and introspect. So while making a point, you also get to see what changes you can make.

Now back to our lovely discussion

I largely agree with you and appreciate your candor and consideration. I think some other factors that arise are time, availability of particular services, cost of living in specific localities, other expenses, and how much money one makes. But I think what counts the most is putting the effort forth and a willingness to continually try to change.

And just to chime in on it, most people the world over live day to day, and the struggle is real. Last I checked, 80% of the world population lives on less than $10.00 a day... many born into poor living conditions. I vehemently disagree with "the people get the government they deserve..."

One love

I understand your point and it's validity in this context. Sometimes I use kratom for chronic pain, but if I found out children were being murdered for me to use kratom(probly under an ounce a year) I would not use it. I need something because I have an auto immune disease and gotta work and do life so I get by with weed usually. I have used benzos and I am pretty sure I would be heavily into benzo addiction if I did not have constant access to cannabis. It is what it is, and I can accept it and just hardly afford it working full time in agriculture..but I can afford it.

I would not expect a person who is addicted to opiates to turn down kratom, morphine, or heroin no matter where it came from. I would probly get desperate without cannabis if I am having a bad week with my body. It is likely I would be on prescription anti anxiety meds and steroids. If I could not go and get something I needed, then what?

You can easily see how for a person who is addicted to crack or cocaine, and in the stages of deep depression without the drug/maybe poor or homeless, the chocolate analogy starts to seem less and less relevent. The situation is just not the same, and I think this is the situation for a whole lot of people who end up falling into a bad place in life.

I do not think it is the situation of every drug user, but it is the reality for many.

So there's a lot of good replies here and too many for me to respond to individually but I'll just clarify my thoughts on this a little.

I'm by no means perfect and I make lots of selfish choices on a daily basis, I don't need to have access to cannabis for any health reason beyond me enjoying it and it helping me connect with certain aspects of my self. I could save the money I spend on it and use it to support better businesses or do something charitable. I try not to hide from this truth though, if I'm aware of it, I can always find ways to improve but if I deny any responsibility for the repercussions of my actions, I never will. Even if those unideal actions are understandable (I'm poor and so I can't buy everything from the most ethical of sources) I think it's ultimately healthy to face that reality.

We're all flawed people so we definitely don't act as perfectly as we know we could but we can try our best and to try our best, we need to accept the truth in regards to the life we live.

RE the people get the government they deserve.. Yeah I don't feel that I deserve everything that I've been subject to in this life necessarily but then I also didn't necessarily do much to prevent those things either. Ultimately this world is whatever we collectively agree upon and the 99% of have agreed upon the reality that 1% of people dictate our lives to us. With us being the 99% we could easily stand up to the things we don't agree with and simply say "no, no more!" but we don't and so we collectively reap what we collectively sow.

I guess I should put emphasis that despite my above views being what I ultimately consider the reality of our situation, it doesn't mean that I don't understand why! why we aren't always the best we can be and with this understanding, it's hard to point a finger at someone and outright call them a bad person but still.. so long as we try and sugar coat reality, we cripple ourselves in terms of actually being able to change things away from a world that has so much injustice in its current state.

I'm a massively flawed person myself so definitely not someone in a position to preach but these are just my thoughts on all this and something I feel quite strongly about due to how common place this avoidance and deflection of responsibility is becoming in modern thought (such as how through lack of personal responsibility we entrust organizations to do the work for us which too often ends up being corrupted for financial gain)

I think so too, and that it must be an ongoing self assessment because humans seem to loop back into existing narratives

Thank you for your candor and clarification.

While I still somewhat disagree (instead vehemently) with people getting the government they deserve due to in being more complicated in my mind (consider alignment with ideals,resources, education, etc.) The statement makes a lot more sense now.

One love

I think this is very valid viewpoint. Sometimes things happen just out of sheer bad luck and sometimes you have really good luck even though you didn't quite deserve it. But most of the time you reap what you sow.

If we take a look at what happened in Soviet Union, the story could have gone better if there were better people in charge, but it's not a coincidence that extremely violent and envious revolution breeds leaders like the ones that took power. I think same thing applies to Mr. Trump. Nobody deserves a leader with such a morality but easy to see the seeds that that eventually grew and bare this fruit.

I want to believe that the most profound change in world is that which happens in one's own heart. Leading a good life that brings good fruit is the best inspiration for others to do right thing too.

Cocaine yes. Probably should toss Methamphetamine in the same boat there, 98% of it is coming from cartel 'super labs' now. I have personally known cartel members over the years. I met this kid that was 17, he had killed over 200 people and he was a low man on the assassin chart. Long story short, I don't condone use of either substance although some people can use them responsibly and never get addicted (that was my personal experience as well, I couldn't quit PcP or Opiates but meth and coke was no problem at all.) Blood all over those drugs not to mention they're cutting them with elephant tranquilizers to make them more addictive like that was really necessary. One vote from me for say no to Coca.