Hi All,

Apologies if this belongs in a different section.

I am wondering if anyone else experiences the type of fear/anxiety that I do when taking DMT. I am not talking about the fear or nervousness that seems quite common such as pre-flight or when experiencing the unknown, but something quite different.

Pre flight I sometimes get butterflies in my stomach as I know what is coming. But this feels normal and expected to me, much as I would feel prior to a bungee jump or parachute jump. This is not an issue.

The issue is as the DMT kicks in, I experience a sense of fear, dread, anxiety, like I have never experienced elsewhere. And this happens every time without fail, and no matter the dose.

I have used DMT somewhere between 50 to 70 times, ranging in doses typically from 10mg to 40mg, and the fear is there and at the same level of extreme intensity every time. My usual dose is between 10-20mg. I am not going for a breakthrough, but more of an adaptation of regular micro dosing. 10mg for me gives no real visuals at all other than with eyes closed it is similar to if I rubbed my eyes quite hard. And I see the same patterns in the same order every time. I absolutely know what to expect and visually it is very pleasant. So, mentally, I am enjoying the experience (or at least I should be) but physically it is the worst thing ever.

And that's my point. This is a physical reaction rather than a psychological or emotional one (as far as I can tell). I get spasms in my abdomen and legs as well which does seem to be quite common, but I haven't found anyone else describing the same anxiety reaction I seem to get.

I extract my own DMT so I am confident of what I am taking. And I use a Vandy Vape set up to ensure I burn at the right temp every time. I have tried it with meditation, breathing, fasted, non-fasted, morning or night, alone, and with a trusted sitter. Nothing makes any difference. Even at 5mg, where I know I will experience zero visuals nor any sense of "flight", I still get the same extreme physical fear reaction. It lasts for the 7 to 10 minutes of the trip (even when there is no trip because of the low dose). Afterwards, I am left happy and content, so the longer lasting effects are always positive, but my goodness, it takes all my courage to go through the experience to begin with because it is so unpleasant.

Recently I have taken these small doses every day for 2 weeks. There is no tolerance build up or reduction in the feeling of fear.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any knowledge or information that may help? It almost feels like I am somewhat allergic to the substance, but I find that hard to believe.

Thank you in advance for any comments.

Welcome to the forum flotsam,

The anxiety you're feeling each time you ingest N,N-DMT is a very normal and extremely common reaction to the drug. Extreme levels of anxiety is not something that is unique to just N,N-DMT but covers the entire spectrum of serotonergic psychedelics. I've provided a small list of common psychedelics in rank order of potency of fear provoking anxiety (intensity may vary depending on the individual):

1 - 5-MeO-DMT
2 - N,N-DMT
3 - LSD-25 / Psilocybin
4 - 2-CB
5 - Mescaline

Obviously some people may order the drugs I listed in a different order but this is just some anecdotal data IME. I believe the anxiety stems from the very pharmacology of these drugs being 5-HT2A receptor partial agonists. It's important to note that suicide victims have a higher concentration of these receptors so I don't imagine increased activity of said receptor will feel particularly pleasant to anyone. I also believe that the positive effect of serotonergic psychedelics on ones cognition is a direct result of downregulation of these 5-HT2A receptors.

P.S. I have no references to back up what I just said. Hope this helped, Kind regards, KT.

King Tryptamine, thanks for the welcome and reply.

Funnily enough, I get no adverse reaction to LSD whatsoever, but I do with psilocybin mushrooms. With mushrooms, as with DMT, I have experimented with doses small to large (0.25g up to 10g) and while psychologically and emotionally it is always a good experience, physically I get the abdominal spasms, twitches, and anxiety... to the point I eventually gave up on mushrooms altogether.

I wonder if anyone knows of any possible techniques to reduce this adverse reaction? Or more information on the actual mechanisms involved so I may experiment to find some solution myself?

I have used Beta blockers (propronolol) in the hope of reducing the symptoms but it made no difference. At least it made no difference to the anxiety, but it does increase the hallucinogenic intensity quite significantly; 10mg suddenly feels more like closer to 20mg.

I feel the chemical substance is massively over stimulating my sympathetic nervous system response and I would like to mitigate that if I can. As I said, I can go in to a trip completely calm and unworried as I know what to expect and I know exactly what will happen on the low doses I use, but within seconds of inhaling, I become physically overwhelmed and as a result I am not getting the hoped for benefits. The physical sensations completely distract from the psychological experience.

Try harmalas if you haven't already. They smooth the come up very much. I also recommend experimenting with oral DMT in order to get comfortable with the molecule. Much more manageable than the vaped experience.

Tomtegubbe, thank you.

I just did a quick google search (not aware what hamalas are/is) and realised I have already tried this in Syrian Rue. It was a while ago and I used it as the MAOI so I could then ingest my DMT orally. I do recall much less anxiety on that occasion, but also felt extremely nauseous for the 2 hours or so the trip lasted. I never revisited it as I have a childish like phobia of vomiting so fought it vigorously the entire time rather than simply "get it out" so I could get on with the experience.

You've given me something good to work with here, thank you. I'll do a lot more research as I believe used incorrectly it can be quite dangerous (???), but it certainly could be something that will offer some level of a solution for me. I'm very grateful.

@flotsam:

Regarding the potential techniques one could use to combat the psychological and physiological side-effects that the N,N-DMT induces, theirs no better remedy than partaking in physical exercise just before ingesting the compound(s). It's up to you which type of exercise you choose but I'd lean more towards cardiovascular-endurance training. It's relaxing and will shift your mood to a more positive one further increasing the quality of your trip. Doing this regularly might also help combat the adrenalin-like effects of the psychedelic drugs you consume helping to lower your heart rate, decrease blood vessel stiffness and lower your BP. It'll also help keep your heart healthy so you can carry on taking these drugs till an older age than you would without it.

P.S. I'm extremely offended you don't consume harmalas prior to ingesting you're DMT. You must never dose one without the other!

If you don't take too much, of course.

When you vape DMT you have to go through lots of layers in an instant and you end up somewhere very far from this reality. If you take a low dose oral DMT trip you can get familiar with the lower levels of the world that opens up and learn how to navigate it. Of course if you take a high dose and are stuck there for hours it can be a heavy experience.

I do... or did, the one and only time I orally ingested DMT. I took the Syrian Rue and an hour later I took the DMT. It was a longer lasting and gentler experience. But the nausea was horrible. However, I have just found what looks like a very informative site dedicated to Syrian Rue, plus a few other articles, and it seems like I took WAAAAAAYYYY too much than is needed, and I suspect the extreme nausea and headache etc was a result of that excess amount. Foolish of me to have rushed in without proper research.

I am going to experiment with the Syrian Rue I still have in the house in smaller doses first, just to test my tolerance and reactions to it alone. If all goes okay I will then try a very small vape dose of DMT on top of the ingested Syrian Rue. I prefer to vape as if it goes wrong, it's over so much sooner

Thanks for the comment about exercise. In the past I was always very active, but circumstances have meant I have not exercised at all, barely even walking, for the past 2 years. I feel a lot of pent up energy normally throughout the day now, and your comment has made me think this probably does contribute somewhat to the excess physical reactions I have with DMT. Another factor I can work on to improve my experiences.

Thanks so much, both of you.

You're welcome 🙂

There are a few things you can do about the nausea. Cannabis is very effective antiemetic, but you should take just a pinch of it. It's psychoactive effects don't synergize well with dmt. You want to keep your head straight when sailing to unknown waters.

Lemon essential oil is another effective antiemetic. It blocks 5-HT3 receptors responsive for the nausea caused by serotonergic psychedelics (tryptamines like dmt). You can apply it transdermally by rubbing it into armpits and breast. Taking deep breaths smelling it from the bottle is effective too.

Third trick is to get acquainted with the effects of harmalas by drinking harmala tea without DMT for some time. This is quite popular here, since harmalas have a general positive relaxing and opening effect on your psyche.

Also, if you learn to relax yourself through breath you can learn to counter the vomiting impulse and the feeling will eventually pass. The key is to take just a slight pause after exhalation and let the muscles in your stomach and head relax. Physiologically this is connected to the stimulation of vagus nerve and is quite established way of calming the body.

This is a great tip and I feel it should be much more prominent as advice for would-be explorers. It's pretty good advice for life in general, all told.

I know some of my best experiences occur the same day get in a good workout.

You're getting some phenomenal feedback here so there's not much more for me to add aside from this thread about this specific topic.

I have also experienced the tremors you've described, which have also occurred at one time or another on LSD and mushrooms and recent cannabis assisted psychedelic journeys I've had, as well as DMT. I look at it like an energetic discharge of knots worked through that have correspondence in the body. Like a psychological storage in the physical body. I look at it as healing.

One love

Many, many threads address this here and elsewhere, there is even another one on the forum currently. It is a legit question and concern, but nearly universal.

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I don't know, taking any anxiolytic drug be it ethyl alcohol, cannabinoids, benzodiazapines or opiates seems to defeat the purpose of taking a psychedelic drug such as N,N-DMT IMO. It is through that very pain and fear that a compound like N,N-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT is able to make the person-individual become stronger mentally.

Think of it as a mental form of exercise. Like physical exercise the more pain and torture you put yourself through the more you're able to grow and get results. I believe the same logic can be applied when administering these drugs as their is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the harder the psychedelic hits the more positive effects you'll gain from it, also a lot of people seem to think that "bad-trips" are the ones which make an individual grow up more, well IMO anyway. I am also a firm believer that the brain always want's to establish equilibrium. What I mean by that is whatever drug you take the brain will work/change in a way that opposes the change the drug is trying to make. Reason being why people tend to feel awful after cocaine and happy after 5-MeO-DMT.

I don't think the benefit of minimizing the anxiety outweighs the addictive risk of taking these GABAergic drugs either.

Take the pain!

Being one who in the last few years has struggled to get myself to breakthrough, this is a stance I've had for a while. The aim is to get myself, as I am, to make it through the experience without using something that isn't synergistic. I'll use harmalas, and some of the herbs in a changa blend can be anxiety easing, but I have a categorical refusal to use anything else. So, I try to approach it in a similar vein to when I'm preparing for a 405lb deadlift; it's a lot weight, and I don't always know how it'll go (like yesterday when I failed the attempt twice). kNOw pain, kNOw gain.



One love

I tend to agree with you, and view the mental anguish as a kind of hormetic stress, though I'm certainly not knocking what works for others and am very grateful for any suggestions/advice people add here.

For me personally, I'm not trying to avoid the mental discomfort, anguish, fear etc. I am well experienced with that side of trips using high doses of LSD and mushrooms, and consider it to be an important and likely integral part of a healing psychedelic journey. My issue is I seem to have a significant adverse physical reaction with DMT, even at sub-threshold doses, and this prevents me even getting to the mental/psychological journey at all. Even 5mg with no open or closed eye visuals, causes a fear and dread in my stomach, racing pulse, shallow breathing and pounding heart like I have never experienced before, all without anything perceivable happening in my mind.

Incidentally, having reflected on this more since I posted, I've realised my first experiences with DMT about 4 years ago were not too bad. 40mg produced fear, but the type that is understandable given what we experience when under the influence. The reaction I now get is very, very different. It was a comment in your earlier post about suicidal people having more of certain receptors that got me thinking; without going in to details, the past few years I have struggled enormously with depression. It's hard to be sure, but it appears my adverse reactions with DMT have got worse as my depression got worse. I wonder if there is a link?

This morning I ingested some Syrian Rue about 80 minutes before vaping 10mg of DMT. There was a small but noticeable reduction in my anxiety. It may just be a placebo effect, but it's promising and I will continue to experiment with doses, and report back.

As I've said, very grateful for all comments that are helping me research further for the answers that will work for me.

I second this.

You have to take a look of the unpleasant side to reconcile the both worlds.

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Now that you are familiar with the rue tea, I suggest adding just a pinch of dmt orally to the mix. Work up the dose gently.

@ Syragote & flotsam: Apologies if I came off this way, I assure you guys it wasn't my intention to come off as douchebag. I was just trying to share my honest opinion and I would never intend to make anyone in hear feel unwelcome unjustifiably.