Particularly with marijuana, I found myself drawing conclusions about reality that were based on a filter I had over my perception. For example, concluding that I was or was not meant to smoke that day based upon the type of experience that followed.

This effect was especially prevalent with my psychedelic exploration as well. Whether that was attributed to a lack of mental discipline in sobriety, or the thought acceleration and connectivity brought on by the trip, I came to loathe such a state.

Many variations of these types of delusions are prevalent from a religious context-particularly with the idea that humans can perceive the extra-dimensional connections between consensus space events. It is like saying that God made a red car drive past you today so that you would go on craigslist and buy a red car, only to meet your soul mate selling it.

I am not claiming that such things do not exist, such as karma. Certainly, I am reaping what I sow in terms of my actions, but it is not my place to try to understand the "un-perceivable connections" between these things.

These sorts of thought are especially convincing on psychedelics (for me, that is) and so it has taken me months of practicing skepticism of such ideas to return to a state of mental stability. This was one of the main reasons I quit weed because it seemed to consistently bring me into such delusions.

How do you guys go about avoiding this on psychedelics? I have been reflecting on my trips quite a bit, and discovered this to be a sort of consistency(especially with LSD). I felt as if I was on the edge of losing my mind because these trains of thoughts would lead to intense conclusions, so I would have to practice GREAT skepticism and not become attached to that which I was thinking. Even with that affirmation though, some things were so awfully convincing and so the trip would wind up unpleasant because I was actively working against this. I'm getting anxiety in reflection.

This carried over into my sober life, as well, which I why I mentioned having to work my way out of this type of mental process. There are many examples. IE. I am being punished by the "universe" or God because I was gluttonous or simply did not do what I was supposed to. Maybe this is a result of religious guilt/conditioning aswell. These types of idea poisoned me for a time, as the implications of accepting such a psychological precedent are terrifying. As the mind convinces its self that it can perceive more and more of the invisible connections, well then avoiding death or being punished with it are both very real.

I believe the DSM5 would classify these types of processes as psychosis or schizophrenia (though I fail to see any of the good in doing so, especially if one decides to identify themselves with such a condition, they will fall into the process of finding more things about themselves that fit that diagnosis.

I find it much easier to be critical of these kinds of thoughts when sober, but I also bring this topic up because of how casually people seem to do it without understanding its implications. Whether this is in the form of a perceived divine message, or some kind of undertaken ritual for the purpose of getting a good result, this I find to have great potential for harm. Again, these sorts of things could certainly be at work-whose to say that wearing my blue underpants didn't make the wind push my disc golf frisbee an ace today-but it is far beyond my ability and more psychologically wise to avoid such things.

I think that basing our actions and mental conclusions on tangible and traceable evidence is far more reliable and peaceful than the latter, but I would love to know what others think.

These feelings are completely normal. In many religious or spiritual disciplines, this way of thinking is even actively being encouraged or cultivated.
But at the same time it can indeed borderline a psychotic way of thinking.
There is a thin line between spirituality and insanity.

What is typical of psychotic people though, is that they seem to have lost their ability to control these processes. They often don't seem to be able to critically reflect on these "revelations" they have at all.

I think the difference between a healthy person an a psychotic one, is that to normal people, the red car MAY have been put there by god. But to the psychotic mind, such a nuance is insignificant. It IS put there by god, and the fact that the first is conceivable, is proof that the latter is factual.

Making a rational risk-assessment is something we naturally do all the time, and we normally tend to be pretty good at it, though many people still die from smoking each day unfortunately.
But on the whole, it is making these rational risk assessments that keeps us from doing very stupid things.

If such rational thinking is being overridden by mere impulses entirely, then hell awaits you eventually. It sure is a sign of psychosis or some other serious psychiatric condition.

But just to have such thoughts to begin with, is not stupid, unhealthy or undesireable in itself. It is in our nature to tell stories. To eachother as well as to ourselves.

The buddhists try to free themselves from this internal storytelling. But they do this, encouraged by the story of siddharta gautama.

But at least the rational buddhist is aware of this. The religious fanatic will tell you it's no story but truth.

I make an effort, when pondering or discussing the momentous revelations brought on by psychedelics to use the term "seemed", as in "It seemed like" in order to remind myself that I'm thinking/talking about an experience I had and my perception of that experience. I find it important to separate that which I've found to be "TRUE" and that which, no matter how important and revelatory it might have seemed at the time ultimately amounts to "A powerful experience".

Most of us have, or know someone who has turned into a sort of Psychedelic Evangelist after a powerful experience. Seems to happen often to novice trippers, but I think most people are susceptible. My first big shroom ride did that to me, years ago.

ChristianMeteor said


My Dad had a saying "You aren't punished FOR your sins, you're punished BY your sins."

ChristianMeteor said


Big difference between the two. Other than cleaning the house and turning my phone off prior to tripping I don't follow a lot of pre-flight ritual, but I can see that others find value in their rituals, as far as the benefit to their mindset going into a psychedelic experience. "Percieved Divine Message"? Wow. That could be anything from beneficial to harmful depending on different factors such as general mental health, how such a perception is integrated and what action is taken as a result.

I like that you use the word risk assessment here, as it captures a more practical method of this sort of thinking. I also agree with your description of the line between insanity being the awareness of the possibility instead of an actuality.

I think that, perhaps the reason behind why this effect has been amplified for me on psychedelics, is a heightened perception of risk, potentially related to my vulnerable state. So, because I am in an altered state of consciousness, I am less capable of handling any risks than when I am sober. So that, combined with a heightened emotional state, brings forth a particular hypersensitivity to risk because I know it poses more of a threat to me.

In reading your post, I was reminded of one of the main reasons why I stopped using these substances which was that I was more capable of handling situations sober, whether they be psychological or physical. Perhaps its ego, but I'd like to think of myself as the one who can give someone a ride or talk about something emotional, any time of day.

Impulse is also a good word that you used. There seems to be a natural inclination towards such ways of thinking (which are of course, not always rational) though I think wisdom would encourage skepticism of such impulses and instead encourage a "checking with the middle ground".

"Seemed" is a low stakes word to use and I would agree that that is a very healthy approach to such experiences (particularly if you consider limited perception).

And yes, whether it's on the internet or in person, some people really think they have it figured out after a trip. Sometimes its not even a trip, though, and the simple illusions created by the mind. In either case, it does come across as rather callous as they try to dictate your experience based on their own subjective one (I could sure get into the absurdity of authoritarianism with this claim, but I think that would be redundant).

If more religious people shared what you father said, there would be a lot less negativity posed towards these belief systems. I think it is far more plausible for people to consider that their gluttony is bad because of the traceable effects instead of it being bad in God's eyes and thus they are punished for it. That said, some will still take those "real" results and use them to say its a form of God's punishment (ie. God gave you disease because you were gluttonous and now you will suffer in the hospital)

Just writing that reminds me of the many narratives of religious people who will claim a variety of rewards and punishments come from the creator. All I can really think to respond is "okay maybe, but also what makes you think you know?" Or, using seemed, "it seems that way to you, but not to me". What a phenomenal way of responding-I may have to use it.

In terms of ritual, I agree completely with it affecting mindset. I do a very similar thing to get my mind in place before I go disc golfing. I like grunge metal before, typically a bit of meditation, and to set my intention. I don't consider these things to benefit me because I have figured out the design of reality and found that my frisbees fly best with this, but rather I have traceable benefits from such actions.

I use perceived divine meaning a bit loosely here, perhaps to again highlight the difference between tangible and intangible consequences of actions. For example, I am far more privy to accepting that I felt some chest pain because I was eating too much peanut butter and perhaps that chest pain was Gods way of telling me to lay off, verses receiving a message from the creator that peanut butter was of the devil and so now I should avoid it on that principle.

Perhaps God or the universe works in the world that I can perceive, instead of in a semi-illusionary manner

To a certain extent it's your decision to choose what you believe. Trip experiences are dream-like in their factual validity. They reveal something, but it's up to you to pick what you believe in. You will be able to sharpen your focus later if you don't swear by the first image or interpretation.