Desperation = depression.... I didnt realize ive been depressed for so many years until recently becoming otherwise. and this feels like a groundbreaking observation that ive just made..

Depression is a major thing that impacts lots of people. and i think it may be from living life from a desperate perspective.. Desperate to find a companion, desperate to make ends meet, desperate to have that new car, desperate to stop and feed yourself, desperate to feel energetic when you wake up.

And disappointed every time any of your wishes dont happen.

the realization just came to me while i was jokingly picking on friends because of how flaky they are because ddue to being so desperate for this or that, they are unreliable because when a means to achieve something they want or need becomes available, they drop all prior arrangements and agreements on the spot without even communicating to other parties that their plans have changed.

while the stable and comfortable person is able to make and keep plans, and to also plan and take action on opoportunities as they present themselves, the desperate person has to do it now! or they might miss it. and they do it unprepared and often way below optimal performance and get little from it..

can you see how this kind of thinking could creep and grow into habitual behavior??

thats how i used to think, and thats what im noticing different about myself from the people around me lately..

i already see it coming, action reaction, maybe its the other way around??etc.. that doesnt matter, depression is mysterious, while desperation we can very much focus on and change, so regardless which causes which, this is a possible step closer to helping.

I believe this is the message Buddha tried to convey.

I think that if you can change the desperation into the attitude that you'd welcome good things into your life you can get rid of much suffering already.

One source of desperation I believe is stressful life. When you are hyperstimulated and chronically busy it's difficult to take time to enjoy the small things you already have. You think you need more to be happy, because apparently you are not happy with what you have if stress wears you down.

Good thoughts!

since the turn around ive been extremely productive, and efficient, i have maybe 1000 bucks available at the moment, and im tearing the roof off of my house because for the last 6 or 7 years, we cover it with plastic and put buckets where it drips because we have been too desperate to find the means to fix it. the new roof will cost about 3500, and the repairs before i can put the roof on are gonna cost up to that. but ive got all summer, and its moving at a remarkably fast pace. everything is falling into place, materials available just when i need them, etc.

the desperation and disappointment had kept me from taking action before, not just the roof, but everything...

then theres the emotional side, without which i wouldnt have made this observation.. i would always get myself tangled up in these romantic cluster bombs, and investing so much into them to try to fix it or make it work.. now i approach it, and i can see the complications and choose how much im willing to invest. whereas before, its all in, im gonna die trying because I NEED THIS!!!

I feel I've recently (f***ing finally) broken free from a nearly life-long cycle of depression and numbness, with some help from DMT...

I think you're right about this. For almost a month now, I've felt so laid back, so relaxed, like I can just enjoy the moment for what it is. But not lazy! I work hard, but I'm not in a desparate struggle to squeeze every moment. This is something I always knew made me miserable (always living in the past or future) but "living in the moment" is really easier said than done.

Something in my mind just clicked one day when tripping in the park, and I decided to just talk to every interesting person I can when I'm out in the town. Somehow that exercise triggered this huge change in attitude. Now if something doesn't work out, I'm just excited for the next opportunity, person, day, whathaveyou, rather than distraught with negative reminiscences and projections.
There's more nuance I've yet to think over, but yes, you are on to something

My personal observation from dealing with double depression is depression seems to cause/influence desperation more so than desperation causes depression, not saying desperation doesn't influence depression. Depression augments perception and perspective in a painful way in that one can find themselves desperate needlessly.

For a long time I've dealt with action paralysis as a symptom of depression where I am unable to pick a direction to move in. One feels so desperate based on depressive augmentation that action can't be taken without apparent certainty and confidence about the outcome, not to mention other mental blocks that can impede "progress."

I'll share a very personal example that I hope to not be judged for...

I have never seen or thought of myself as intelligent by any degree despite "evidence" to the contrary. However, it seems to be a theme because many people make comments about their perception of such in me,and often these comments can come from the same people repeatedly over large spans of time. It makes me uncomfortable for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it's hard to make sense of, since I don't see it, and in some senses disagree. Then I grow concerned about disappointing others who retain such observations, since I appear unable to acknowledge it. I come to a point where I feel I should "have something to show" for my apparent intelligence. But since I am experiencing DESPERATION and am also experiencing action paralysis, I get very little done, running around too much in my mind rather than taking action. I also tend to worry about having a big ego if I accept such observations from others.
The reality is most likely that it really doesn't matter and I should be grateful for such perceptions and humble about them. I'd rather people think I'm intelligent than dumb, as most would as it leads to better interpersonal interactions. Not because others opinions actually matter.

The interesting thing, none of these thought paradigms are mine, but products of my depression. It's endogenous brainwashing and it can be hard to draw the lines between my thinking and depressive algorithms.

With my increased DMT use, there has been a lot of success in managing this thinking, finding the separation between me and my depression.

The adjunct to depressive thinking is the feelings it brings, leaving one torpid and defeated. It's a complex cognitive structure that's always moving.

One love

Edit: Something I recognized I neglected to mention was the pendulum swing from disinterest to desperation precipitated by DMT. A telling sign of depression is loss of interest in many if not almost all activity. The ball at some point swings the other way where one reflects on their lack of "accomplishment" and thus become desperate to "remedy" said lack of accomplishment.

the feeling of recently breaking free, and feeling like partial, most, or all credit goes to dmt....

this is is also my recent experience, when i tell someone who asks me what the hell has come over me, what has changed, that i believe it has something to do with dmt, i get funny looks, like well maybe we should get some meth so we can be faster, smarter, stronger, and happier too.

Ive loved dmt for a long time, but only able to get ahold of a little bit every once in a long while. i always appreciated it for its temporary grounding and settling effects, but my reason for using it was because i enjoyed getting high on it and appreciated the knowledge that it helped me gain spiritually. but never until recently had a clue, or considered it as a medicine of such magnitude for literally ending depression and returning someone to a state of waking life quality long since forgotten.

when contemplating your own depression, you have to have some kind of goal regarding how you expect to feel after your depression is managed, and honestly, i would never have anticipated it feeling as good as i feel today. that memory had been lost.

so i think i would like to see a thread where those of us who feel this way can share some of the more intimate details of our experiences and why we suspect we owe credit to dmt. also some dosage and frequency details, and maybe some of the experiences we had just prior to the breaking free of the chains that had been restraining us.

and depending on the quality of such thread, possibly even learn more about the longevity of the feeling and the reoccurence or lack thereof of the return to a depressed state. we might even learn to recognize the early signs and symptoms of the decline in life quality and be able to manage them naturally from now on.

I am very willing to take part in such a thread Bisy.

Having persistent depression, I've let go of any expectation of being cured from it, though I will gladly accept such if that's how it turns out for me. DMT does help me harness it though.

One love

Have you guys tried using mushrooms and/or LSD to assist with your depression? A consistent schedule, say every 2nd or 3rd Saturday, and then rather than amuse yourself just sit there and sink into your mind for 6 hours. Maybe put on some music or light entertainment on your TV, but nothing that will distract you from yourself for the duration. As your symptoms ease you can back off to about once a month.

Obviously this treatment is ineffective if you are taking SSRIs or SNRIs, but if those medications aren't really working anyway there's no real reason to be taking them.

I suffered from intense depression from around 12 years old that haunted my life and my opportunities until my late 20's. For the last 15 years or so I treat the condition with psychedelics as above. These days I don't really even want to trip that much anymore and I'll drag it out 6 weeks or even 3 months between sessions. But sure enough the listlessness, lack of motivation, apathy, boredom and general discontent sets in again. When I do it again and wonder why I dragged it out so long and caused myself so much suffering for nothing. After all tripping isn't an unpleasant experience for me.

I'm not alone with this, there's many people who do it. Mushrooms tend to be more effective for most people though LSD works very well for me and the effect appears to be more persistent. There's a growing body of scientific literature that indicates this approach is more than just a placebo, it's worth looking into if you deal with these issues on a constant basis. It changed my life, it might be able to change yours too.

I agree with in ways Northerner. I have experimented with it in the past, but find that I need a higher frequency in order to recieve the beneficial effects and I don't always have the time to trip and feel the medicine that often. However I know of many that have and still continue to benefit from mushrooms for mitigating and managing depression.

One love

It's just something to consider and perhaps keep in mind if you're ever looking for another working solution.

it never crossed my mind to use psychadellics medicinally. i have always enjoyed them, and was never aware that they were being researched as treatment for depression.

i also was not feeling depressed when this happened to me. the only reason i know i was depressed is that im suddenly, and for the first time i can remember, not depressed. it is bringing back memories of a time when i was in my prime and on top of the world, but i had completely forgotten about them..

the dosage and frequency of use that led to this are rather extreme, as anyone following my posts since i started is aware. im still kinda blocked out, but i try at least once every day, and sometimes i get a little something interesting out of it, but most of the time just a strange kinda feeling that is hard to describe.

i would prefer not to divulge this information, but for the sake of accurate information for those who are as curious as i regarding a seemingly impossible and miraculous turnaround from depression i have to share that im pretty much a lifetime meth user. for many years a junky, but almost 4 years ago my newborn son was taken from the mother and i quit that day and spent the following 2 years traveling 50 miles every day to where the services were offered. during that time i drank alcohol more than usual, but it too is not allowed, so that was limited to mostly thursday and friday so by monday i could test clean.

that experience, combined with the lack of support or participation w the mother and all the chaos that she brings spiked anxiety and depression. but there was no way i was giving up on my son. cps tried very hard to win their case and there was never a day that i felt certain that it was not all in vain.

after it was finally over, i remained sober for 6 months or so, and eventually used again, but not to extreme excess or with the attitude that i had to have it or i wasnt going to be able to be a dad.

when i finally did an extraction and had enough dmt to use as much as i wanted, my meth use plummeted. i didnt feel like i needed, or even wanted to take the time to use it.. there was a new, different, more authentic source of life in me. still, at this point, im not even thinking about depression.

and then, all a sudden, from nowhere, im back on top of the world, feeling great, being productive, proud, and maturing emotionally at a very fast pace.

I have always regarded psychedelics as substances with powerful healing capabilities (that's what drew me to them initially) but I feel that their effectiveness is limited im and of themselves. There were times where I had an "eye opening" trip alone in my basement, but then I was back to the pit a week later.

My last time using DMT (and the time that brought all this sudden positive change) I used it in a novel way which I would have disapproved of in the past.

For one thing, recreationally, for not much of any reason other than to relax after work. For another, out in public without a sitter. I would still consider this poor practise but I don't think I would have had the same transformation under "better" circumstances. Being stoned around strangers is what triggered me to finally open up... perhaps important to note that I have always been an insecure person in public.

This tells me psychedelics are simply one important constituent of a greater method of healing, which does not work as well in isolation.

Relative to the first paragraph, yep, same goes for me. Psychedelics aren't miracle cures, just tools, and the individual has to be ready to do the work. Hence so many psychedelic users that are relatively naive overall. Some people are able to use them as escapes and such.

I'm ready to do the work, always, so it doesn't matter my headspace (unless I'm unprepared to do the work) only my surroundings need be in order. Thus, I even do it under severe depressive states (which I don't encourage anyone else to do).

And I think that's awesome bismillah! I'm happy for you. I tend to prefer solitude in most of my experiences, but am not relegated to only solo trips. Regardless of introverted one (or myself) may be, there's still parts of us that subscribe to being social creatures.

One love

this is a common denomination. if you can believe this, i actually have a little pipe and dish on a table in my yard, and ill take a 15 minute break from yardwork, or working on the roof and take a couple hits of dmt. usually dont get much of a psychadelic effect, just a clarity of mind and a very productive attention and focus. and when i do get a psychidelic effect, its extremely wonderful and i take a little longer break.

so i guess im incorporating it into daily life as opposed to making a ceremony out of it.