SWIM recently got a free sample of Acorus calamus. He tried up to 5 grams as cold water extracted tea and got very mild but pleasant effects from it. So he decided to make an extract and give that a try. Here's how the extraction went.

1 - 10 grams of powdered Acorus calamus was mixed in 100 ml of acetone for 3 hours.
2 - The extract was vacuum filtered through grade A 4.25 cm glass microfiber paper. It filters rapidly. There were no clogging problems whatsoever. The filtrate is light yellow.
3 - The acetone is distilled down to about 15 ml.
4 - The extract is dried in a food dehydrator at 115 F for 4 hours.
5 - The remaining amber colored oil is mixed with 1000 mg of calcium carbonate and 3000 mg of lactose in order to make it semi-dry. The extract was weighed and came to 4718 mg, with 4000 mg being filler that means 718 mg of oil was extracted.
6 - The extract was put into 3 size 000 capsules.

T+0:00 hr, SWIM took all three capsules with a cup of coffee.
T+0:30 hr, the effects were now noticeable. It's a mild almost kava-like effect. There's a very slight numbing effect felt and it's relaxing, not at all stimulating. Something about the effect is similar to mescaline, but it's not psychedelic.
T+1:00 hr, the effects are now very noticeable. There's a soft almost numb feeling in the body nerves, a slight tingling sensation. There's also a mild hint of nausea felt. It's very mild. The nausea is felt more in the throat than anywhere else. There's a slight feeling of not being able to breathe as well.
T+1:15 hr, the nausea feeling is stronger. There's a slight tight feeling in the throat. SWIM feels more drowsy than stimulated, despite the fact that he had some coffee. There's a very slight dizzy feeling noticed.
T+1:20 hr, SWIM felt he was on the verge of vomiting, so he took 1 550 mg capsule of ginger root with 4 oz water. He then chewed some mint gum. This helped right away.
T+1:30 hr, the effects seem to be subsiding. Maybe the ginger root caused this?
T+2:00 hr, there was still some nausea. Drinking water seemed to help. He chews 19 mg of Datura stramonium seeds (3 seeds); hopefully this will help get rid of the nausea.
T+2:15 hr, SWIM vomited rapidly and uncontrollably all over the toilet. Unfortunately the Datura stramonium seeds were not in his stomach long enough to be effective.
T+2:37 hr, he vomited 2 more times. He took 2 Pepto Bismol tablets with water and immediately vomited again. He then took 2 more. The vomiting was pretty strong.
T+2:55 hr, he vomited again a few more times.
T+3:00 hr, at this point he continues vomiting over and over every 5-10 minutes.
T+7:00 hr, SWIM is still vomiting about once every 5-10 minutes. 23 mg Datura stramonium seeds are chewed (3 seeds).
T+8:00 hr, the frequency of the vomiting went down to about once every 20 minutes.
T+9:00 hr, the nausea is pretty much gone.
T+12:00 hr, SWIM doesn't feel quite right, but there's no nausea at all anymore.
T+14:00 hr, the effects are still felt. He goes to bed.

Here's a summary of what happened. The calamus extract's psychoactive effects peaked at about 1:30 hours. The effects were different from the tea, being much more sedating, stronger, and more like kava. There was no stimulant effect felt at all. Shortly after the peak, very serious nausea began, followed by intense vomiting over and over every 5-10 minutes for many hours, until about 9 hours into it when the vomiting stops. The psychoactive effects lasted well over 14 hours. This is not normal. When taken as tea, the effects only last about 3-4 hours.

Overall, the EXPERIENCE WAS NOT WORTH IT. It was hardly psychoactive. However, it did seem to be on the verge of being psychedelic. Kava is easily more psychoactive than calamus is at this dose. The nausea completely ruins the experience. SWIM would never take this again, unless the nausea could somehow be excluded from the experience.

It seems to me that there are two different active chemicals present: one is causing the psychoactive effects, and the other is causing the seriously intense nausea. I say this because the nausea doesn't get intense until after the psychoactive effects start to subside. Also, the nausea fades away while the psychoactive effects linger for several hours following the nausea. The peak of the nausea doesn't coincide with the peak of the psychoactive effects.

The extract was easily many times stronger than any tea SWIM made from the calamus. The day before this test SWIM made tea from 5 grams using just cold water, and the experience was more pleasant, wasn't as sedating, it seemed to be more of a psychoactive effect, but still many times weaker, maybe 1/4 as strong. With the cold water extract there was no nausea, but then again, the effects were much weaker, so maybe it would cause nausea if more was taken?


Ok, so I have a few questions.

Is it known which compound causes the nausea and which one causes the psychoactive effects, or are they one and the same (alpha-asarone, or beta-asarone maybe)?

Is there a way to remove the nausea element?

Will a water extract minimize the nausea?

Both alpha-asarone and beta-asarone are virtually insoluble in water. So if making a cold water extract, are these two compounds pretty much excluded?

I know that Acorus gramineus ~ "Japanese Calamus" is supposed to be lacking the toxic compound... perhaps you should try it?

I've heard that Acorus americanus is the most psychoactive. That is supposedly what SWIM actually had, but it was being sold as Acorus calamus.

The above experience is the FIRST TIME SWIM ever got psychoactive effects from calamus. In all previous attempts using calamus from different vendors, he got nothing but nausea from it at high doses. But with that batch, there were absolutely psychoactive effects present.

The calamus SWIM has didn't cause nausea until a concentrated extract was made and used. Someone making normal tea from it using 1-5 grams would not have felt any nausea from it.

What chemical does Acorus gramineus lack? Is this known?

I think buying calamus is a little iffy. You really don't know which one you're truly getting. They all look the same to me.

How would you know if you had real Acorus gramineus? By trying it and seeing if you get intense nausea from it? The idea of making an extract of Acorus gramineus, trying it, and then somehow experiencing the same nausea because of vendor misidentification is a real turn off.

The nausea SWIM experienced was about as bad as it can get. SWIM's stomach and back muscles are sore today from all the constant vomiting experienced yesterday.

SWIM will look into Acorus gramineus, but probably at a much later time. He still has some of his current calamus and wants to see if there's anyway of removing the nausea causing component of it. 5 grams extracted with pure cold water was nausea free, but weak. Maybe cold water extraction is the key?

If I knew exactly which compound causes the nausea that would really help a lot. Does anyone know?

I have an herbalist friend that suggested I smoked powdered calamus root on top of my cannabis bowls. It's a very nice meditative smoke that's supposed to balance out the toxic effects of smoke. Not sure how true that is, but I DO enjoy smoking it. Just thought I'd add that....

Yes, ۩, I've heard of people smoking it with other psychoactives. It's said to enhance quite a few of them. I never tried smoking calamas before.

I've also heard of small oral doses of tea being used with mescaline or HBWR to enhance the trip. I've heard that it greatly enhances the effects of HBWR.

When SWIM used 5 grams of cold water extracted calamus from the same batch as the first post above, the effects were greatly potentiated by drinking coffee. The coffee potentiated it in similar ways to how coffee potentiates mescaline. SWIM was excited by this. The experience was very pleasant. This is what made him decide to make an extract of calamus. He saw a similarity between the effects of calamus and mescaline. But when the acetone extract of 10 grams was taken, the effects were not quite the same, it was more like kava, more sedating, and very excruciatingly nauseating after the peak.

I think beta-asarone is the cause of the sedation of the acetone based extract. A cold water extract should not be able to extract nearly as much beta-asarone as acetone can. Beta-asarone is a sedative, and a carcinogen, and it's said to be virtually insoluble in water. Asarone is also said to be virtual insoluble in water. Both are highly soluble in acetone.

I'm wondering if asarone or beta-asarone are at all the desirable components of calamus. Both of these have been tested by others and neither was found to be psychedelic or even very psychoactive.

The cold water extract seemed MORE psychoactive than the acetone extract. It was less sedating. It produced no nausea. But because it was also much weaker, it's hard to really be sure of the reason for the difference in effects. Perhaps a higher dose of the water extract would produce the exact same effects as the acetone extract?

SWIM still has the powdered calamus that was thoroughly extracted with acetone. He's planning to dry the calamus and do a cold water extraction on it to see if any psychoactives remain after extracting with acetone. It's possible that the desired compound is NOT asarone or beta-asarone but something else that is more water soluble.

Does anyone know more about this?

Is a water extract less toxic?

I think the best way of using calamus is like datura: as an admixture rather than on it's own.

It works well with LSH.

i thought beta arasone was a carcinogen ?

Thought i may just add my calamus experience - i took 23.5cm of freshly harvested and dried wild gathered calamus rhizome (gathered in south africa)- chewed it thoroghly and swallowed it - after an hour i was sick, after 2 very sick, after 3 i was puking for the next 8 hours till i could puke no more - i almost had to call an ambulance - not kewl - there were mental fx yes but so not worth it. perhaps i ate too much but i had heard that is how much was used to create hallucinogenic scenes.

I think freshness in Calamus makes a huge difference.

this may be of some use:

http://www.herbalayurveda.com/downloads/vacha.pdf

as I understand it, acorus calamus is used in higher doses to induce purgation....i think a tea, sometimes with a few other herbs.

i think i've tried a tea once, but honestly, the better way seems to be just chewing pieces of the root. this would at least avoid the GI tract for the most part, aside from swallowed saliva.......i get mental effects from chewing it....but it's not an herb i regularly use, because of it's pungent, drying nature.

it's definitely got it's effects on the nervous system though. as with any herb, it's all about preparation and herb quality.

I have found slowly chewing the rhizomes to be a mild long lasting stimulant. With a mental relaxation and antidepressant properties.
By this I mean chewing the root slowly over 4hours the effects seem to take a good two hours to begin. I agree it is not psychedelic. I discovered these effect wile on a week long hike. I came across the American species growing in a swamp and of course it was time to give calamus a try. I had enough root for two days and I was looking for another swamp! But did not come across one. I have since planted along the creek on my property and occasionally harvest some rhizomes fresh, the effects seem to be consistent and I find it to go well with tobacco chewed along with calamus.

Peace

this is what i find as well, and the only way i have used calamus. i have taken it by itself on a hike, and by swallowing the juice/saliva i didn't get thirsty, ( i had run out of water) and i also think it helped suppress appetite.
i have also chewed it in combo with psilocybin and mdma. i found it very synergetic.


no idea what compound causes the nausea--never heard of anyone getting sick on calamus until now.

phlux said he swallowed the rhizome and got sick and swiy did a acetone extraction, so would it be probable that the mystery compound is not water soluble?

I would take it easy as toxicity is ascribed to beta-asarone a possible carcinogen.

Peace

That’s SWIM’s experience pretty much.

Yes, beta-asarone is a carcinogen when fed to lad animals in massive amounts. I think in small amounts in humans its probably not much of a health risk, but I wouldn’t use it often. You should know that North American calamus contains NO beta-asarone, only alpha-asarone (often just called asarone).

SWIM’s back and stomach muscles are sore now from vomiting so intensely yesterday. Not fun at all.

I really would like to see if there’s a way to remove the nausea causing component of the experience.

I suspect that asarone and beta-asarone are not the desired psychoactive components of calamus. This was the opinion of Jonathan Ott as well.

Calamus contains the following (but may also contain other unidentified compounds):

trimethylamine (C3H9N, XLogP3-AA 0.3)
calamendiol (C15H24O2, XLogP3-AA 1.7)
asarone (C12H16O3, XLogP3 3)
beta-asarone (C12H16O3, XLogP3 3, absent from North American calamus)
alpha-calacorene (C15H20, XLogP3-AA 4.4)
acorenone (C15H26O, XLogP3-AA 4.5)
shyobunone (C15H24O, XLogP3-AA 4.9)
alpha-selinene (C15H24, XLogP3-AA 5.2)
acorin (C36H60O6, ?)
calamusenone (?, ?)
camphone (?, ?)

Most of those compounds are not water soluble. They have very high XLogP values. The few that are very water soluble include trimethylamine and calamendiol. Trimethylamine is not active. I can find no good information on the action of calamendiol.

It seems that most of the positive experiences I’ve read about were from people doing cold water extractions and filtering out the solids, and the most unpleasant effects were from those chewing the fresh root and swallowing it rather than spitting it out. Those two different methods should give the user a very different ratio of compounds from the plant.

Has anyone ever gotten sick from a cold water extraction of calamus?

ron - you mentioned 2 dosage techniques, over here the rastas and locals smoke it - they just add some "kalamoos" to their spliffs.
perhaps the best active has a vape point different to the other toxic compounds.

Yeah, I haven't heard of anyone having a bad experience from smoking it.

Is asarone or beta-asarone even smokeable? I wonder. All the texts I saw say they are very instable in heat.

Acorus calamus var. americanus contains no beta-asarone, and yet it is said by many to be the most psychoactive and most stimulating. It contains alpha-asarone though. Acorus gramineus (Japanese calamus) is said to contain a ton of beta-asarone, more than the others, so it should be the most carcinogenic, and many say it’s very weak compared to the others. Reports of Acorus gramineus not causing nausea may just be related to it being very weak. Or alpha-asarone may be causing the nausea?

One guy on another forum talks about using pure alpha-asarone in doses up to 225 mg and said it was sedating and extremely mild, nothing interesting at all. No nausea was reported.

The reports I read where people have actual visual effects talked about it being stimulating. Acorus calamus var. americanus is said to be the most stimulating. Alpha-asarone and beta-asarone appear to be both sedatives according to what I’ve read. Neither are known to cause any visual effects at any dosage.

Either these reports of visual effects are complete bullshit, or the active compound is probably not one of the asarones, like Jonathan Ott believes.

I don’t know of anyone credible who’s experienced visual effects from calamus of any kind.

In the past when SWIM experimented with calamus, all he got was nausea from it, and no other effects. This time, he’s getting psychoactive effects, so his batch of calamus is definitely different. Maybe it’s fresher? The fact that the non-psychoactive batches he had in the past also caused nausea seems to say that the nausea component of calamus is not related to the psychoactive component.

This is a puzzle that’s not been solved by anyone as far as I’m aware.

Here’s what I’ve learned so far in my recent research.

* One human bioassay I read says pure alpha-asarone is an uninteresting sedative, very mildly psychoactive even at very high doses.
* Many reports say that beta-asarone is carcinogenic and also a sedative.
* Reports of visual effects from calamus coincide with reports of stimulation which is unlike the effects of beta-asarone and alpha-asarone.
* Calamus oil is said to be very nauseating, more so than the roots, and less psychoactive to non-psychoactive. The oil contains a lot of alpha-asarone and beta-asarone.
* Water extracts appear to be the least toxic. Both alpha-asarone and beta-asarone are virtually insoluble in water. Hmmm.
* Swallowing the root seems to cause the most nausea.
* Fresh root is strongest and seems to have better effects if chewed but not swallowed.
* Steeping the root in hot water for extended periods of time destroys beta-asarone.

All of this seems to hint at something other than the asarones being the desired psychoactive of American calamus. American calamus is said to be the most stimulating and most psychoactive. Stimulation is not an attribute of the asarones when taken in pure form. They are apparently sedatives.

The fact that calamus oil is less psychoactive than calamus root also points to the direction of something other than the asarones as the active psychoactive.

I am willing to bet that the main psychoactive is more water soluble than asarone. Asarone is not an alkaloid and can’t be made water soluble, and yet a cold water extraction which should not extract asarone is noticeably psychoactive. I also suspect that the nausea causing component is a volatile oil. Volatile oils are notorious for causing stomach problems. They are typically very hard to digest. Calamus oil is known for causing serious cases of vomiting. I’ve seen many reports of this. I have yet to see a report of a cold water extraction that caused nausea. A cold water extraction should extract the least amount of volatile oils and be the furthest thing possible from calamus oil.

SWIM is not going to do anymore testing for a while. His stomach and back muscles still hurt from vomiting over and over. At some point he’ll start experimenting again at lower doses of course.

According to Native Americans it sweetens the stomach and reduces acid in low dose. Wile a high dose stimulates stomach acid production and stimulates the GI track. The immediate effects are determined by dosage much like Kratom ie small dose stimulant, large dose sedative.
So this may be the reason that extracts make one ill. It must be ingested slowly.

The few reports of people seeing visions are most likely bunk placebo descriptions. Native Americans used this plant as a tonic to increase endurance not to induce visions.

This plant is all over the US along trails and rivers because early fur trappers noticed that Muskrats loved to chew eat and store the sweet tasting roots. So fur trappers planted it everywhere knowing they could attract muskrats to there traps. Hence the common name rat root. Its has mild effects.

Peace

MagikVenom, I think a lot of what you're saying is accurate for the plant as a whole.

It contains many compounds, and they vary from plant to plant. The stomach stimulating effect of calamus (which causes extreme vomiting at high doses) might not be part of the psychoactive compound's effects.

Note that SWIM experienced very different effects from a cold water extract of the root. The cold water extract was stimulating, and did NOT cause nausea. The acetone extract was less stimulating, more like kava, and caused excruciating nausea. It seems like the acetone is pulling more stomach toxins, and the water is pulling more psychoactives from the root.

The psychoactivity of the acetone extract was about as potent as the water based extract, but more sedating. 10 grams of root extracted with acetone was about twice as psychoactive as 5 grams of root extracted with cold water, but much more sedating, and extremely toxic feeling to the stomach (causing extreme cyclical vomiting).

It seems to me that it might actually be possible to have positive "hallucinogenic" effects from calamus, if, and only if, the nausea causing component could be removed.

With 10 grams extracted with acetone, the psychoactive effects were very noticeable. It felt on the verge of being psychedelic. The sedative effect was heavy though, and of course the vomiting ruined the whole experience. Had the sedative effect and the vomiting been excluded from the experience, it would have been VERY NICE.

I see potential here. It's like a diamond in the rough. A jewel lies within. But until the nausea and sedative components can be removed, it's not a gem of much value.

I think with calamus, we're dealing with a small handful of active compounds. One is actually a mild hallucinogen. One is a sedative. And one is a horrible emetic. The sedative and emetic show themselves more in the acetone extract while the mild hallucinogen shows itself more in the cold water extract.

I've read at least a few reports of calamus use that produced LSD-style hallucinations that seemed to be credible. At first I thought this was just BS. But during SWIM's painful overdose, the effects were for the first time on the verge of being psychedelic. The vomiting and other unpleasant effects overshadowed it of course. But it seemed to SWIM, that maybe 2 times that dose would be psychedelic. SWIM would not want to try more of that acetone extract though. It was way too painful.

Has anyone else here experienced near psychedelic effects from calamus like SWIM has? If so, what method of ingestion did you use?

I have experienced mild visual effects from Calamus, much like the effects one have just after landing on LSD - slightly moving objects and a small tendency to breathing walls. Not much to speak of, in other words. This was from cold-water extraction of 20 grams. It did, however, cause extreme nausea and purging, I purged constantly through the entire night. I did not experience any distinct sedation to speak of, other than the fucked-up feeling of purging my guts out again and again. Understandably, I abandoned this herb, and can't today even smell it without feeling nauseas.

while i have no personal experience with Acorus calamus, its worth taking to note that the traditional usage of calamus is that it stimulates the saliva glands, this is of benefit during ceremonies where there is a lot of singing, like singing for 10 hours or more. the mouth can get very dry and tired, one puts a chunk or wad of Acorus calamus root in the corner of the mouth and gum and this is sucked on for hours and allows one to continue singing with out mouth fatigue and dry throut.

Im thinking as the minor stimulation also helps contribute to vocal stamina, it would also stand to reason that the sub-lingual absorption of Acorus calamus's actives might potentate any "medicines" ingested for said ceremonies....


it is also said that Calamus Root can be used in the synthesis of TMA-2, which is most definitely psychoactive....

Evening Glory, thanks for that report. So it’s visual effects are not complete BS.

Apparently, your test showed that if enough cold water extracted calamus is used the nausea still presents a problem. That’s too bad. The nausea and vomiting is seriously some of the worst a person can experience. It makes ayahuasca nausea look like a walk in the park.

Was the root powdered? If so, was it filtered really well removing all of the solids?