The title says it all.
Let's say an intelligent race out there became advanced enough to work together and bring all those around them to higher levels of understanding and conciseness.

Why would you travel the stars at that point?
The old concept of those who know don't talk, applys here.

Think of the ultimate physical and metaphoric freedom.. Light.
Not bound by mass or time.
I've heard light experiences no time.

Perhaps enlightened beings literally become light. Becoming an energy that has no bounds, and is, always has been and will always be.


When we wonder where they are... Perhaps they were right in front of our eyes when we look up.

When you consider that everything is light it holds.
I'm picturing a similar evolution to the one of the beings in 2001 A Space Odyssey. They evolved to a non-physical form. Pretty much all that was left was their consciousness somewhere. Would you travel the stars like they did to help other species reach "godhood?"

Reincarnation suggests that it takes many lifetimes to evolve to that point. But that doesn't. Or maybe at death we reach that point, but have to keep coming back until we can achieve it physically..

What I was just wondering is weather conciousness exists within the universe or does the universe exist within conciousness?

if the universe exists within conciousness, anything is possible, if its the other way around, we as a species and as a concious organism must evolve before we can explore the universe and interact with other concious organisms

"This was supposed to be a simple reply and I realized I wrote a wall of text."

I think consciousness is a hive. We're unique, but like a school of fish, stronger together and we pool our resources/knowledge.


To make it simple to understand. "What a lie I wrote. There's nothing simple about that wall." Our minds are only needed to survive the physical world. Maintain and sustain the body for as long as possible. The mind makes active decisions on what to every moment it's active. Our consciousness/subconsciousness is what we are and that makes all the passive decisions, like instincts or evolution. Pass on this, not that. Grow less of this, more of that. Change that color, we don't blend in. A continued consciousness is what makes evolution possible. Everything is controlled by the brain, the mind and consciousness are what run the show. Surely one makes the decisions on how to evolve the species. No way it's the active mind. We'd probably go extinct if our own evolution was left up to our personal demands. Nature and chance is far more creative than we can actively be I think. That's why we're actively kept out of that loop. But, that is what's learning, that's where information is stored. That's where the processing happens, where ideas and inspiration comes from. I said we pool resources, that resources is knowledge/information. We might be here in this physical world but we're still deeply connected to well, may not be actively aware of it. That well is the shared consciousness. When we read about all these differing yet similar accounts of how the universe in connected, that's how on the next level. When we die we go back to it. To me that's the ego death, the build up of the world getting wiped away. Our minds/personalities are a build up of our life experiences. When X happens do B. That's not to say "you" get erased, we just go back to being a consciousness, still unique. We go in and out of this world living every possible way of life learning and evolving. Don't ask me if I think we're tied to a species or gender. Some knowledge takes a lot of sacrifice too. Maybe that's why a lot of religions and beliefs tell people to multiply like rabbits. Look what war does, how rapidly science, technology, politics, everything advances. The cost of that is the expenditure of lives for that war. However there's the the trickle down effect in the following peacetime and former military become civilians and bring with them their gained expertise to their work. They also bring with them the knowledge of a scarring war and work a lot harder to make sure their kids don't need to have a war.

"This whole part was so much shorter. And that was after I saw the wall I already wrote. I didn't plan to write more, but as I reread to shorten stuff, the floodgates opened."

When it comes to evolution I wonder if there is such a thing for consciousness. We can see how a wolf evolved into a dog. Manipulated for sure but we can see that evolution. Is there such a thing for consciousness? As I wonder about that I'm forced to question everything else I wrote above. That would mean both sides of our existence, the physical and metaphysical is part of a greater whole. The body/mind and consciousness/soul. I wonder which influences which more our bodies or our consciousness. Which dominated the evolutionary path? In better increasing our chances for survival and being able to physically adapt to our environments, how did that affect our consciousness collectively? We can see these effects physically in genetic traits and natural instincts in living creatures. Is there such a road metaphysically? This idea put's an asterisk on everything. For me it's that this world is unique for being the starting point for consciousness. That's why life takes so many forms. Imagine what a technologically advanced orca would be like. Would we allow another species to evolve to our level along side us? What if they go to war with themselves as we have. What kind of questions about equality does that raise? Stifle another's potential because it threatens our own? How many paths have we cut or ruined for other creatures here? Our treatment of lower intelligence in contrast with people's search for a higher or equal intelligence, makes me hope we never find a similar intelligence. It always has to be a higher intelligence. Anything we perceive for a moment as lower is going to be destroyed or overtaken by us. Honestly, I think a lot of people would be disappointed with a "lower" alien. But my overall question. Which was first the physical or metaphysical. Maybe consciousness is birthed here and then moves on. Or has a few stays here before moving on.

"I came back and added this a half hour after posting everything else to finish my point."

It's an interesting question. Is consciousness always supreme and "dormant" and waiting for the species to catch up? But what does catch up mean? I look at every other animal especially wolves and whales and can't help but think they've got their thing and their place figured out. Does anything besides us worry about rocks from space or even grasp that as a threat?

"I could literally keep going. The problem with writing is I lose track. I have an audio recorder, I should use that when this happens."

How many times must we kill eachother before we learn both not to kill eachother and also not to disrespect eachother such that we feel the desire to kill eachother?

I think to reach that goal as a species we'd have to survive long enough to move past that. Two ways to do it. Simply to do it and just let go of everyone's long history of screwing over each other. Forgive the past and let it go. Or we reach a point where the things that contribute to things like jealousy, envy, hate aren't a factor anymore. The big thing will be that some people are lazier than others and rather than work or put effort in to get more, they look at more productive people and feel that what they have belongs to them. Like their owed because one person made something for themselves and they're owed a piece. Jealousy isn't a bad thing, until people let that motivate them in the wrong way. The proper way is to jealous of the other person's work ethic and get one for yourself and not look spitefully at what others are doing.

Depending on the level of faith one has in the divine, it could be held that we are right where we are supposed to be. Humans are rather young as a species and its possible that we are evolving just as we are supposed to. We ate toddlers throwing food and throwing temper tantrums.. im inclined to believe we are right where we are supposed to be, because otherwise would be to doubt whatever is divine.

This thread makes me think about about the Iain Banks culture novels where alien civilisations become sublimed.





I dont think that is ever going to happen bro. We have never learnt from history and i think that all the beautiful things about humanity are juxtaposed and entwined with all of the horrible things about us. It's a pain in the butt but we can't have one without the other.

Now obviously I don't know this light idea is in anyway true, but on certain trips it seems to make sense.

I also imagine suns being some form of collective of consciousness experiencing the energy. Kind of like they say some monks can reach a blissful state and will just bask in it.
With the whole concept light experienceing no time, from lights perspective its at the beginning and the end of time, and everything inbetween.

I also find it intresting that apparently suns are not hot enough to produce fusion. It relies on the sheer number of interactions and rare quantum tunneling to get the fusion happening. I might have the details wrong I've not researched this stuff just read it at times. Really intresting tho.

To me it seems to be futile to attempt to understand or interpret the intentions of an advanced, or truly enlightened "alien" intelligence on any level other than the truly obvious (to our intellect at least).
To me it parallels asking a child to understand things that are important to adults (algebra, diet, hydration ect..)
Ive been visited (sober) and gave up wondering why very early on. Basically, why ask the insect for what purpose a biologist is performing a vivisection on it? With myself as the insect of course.

It's more a concept of ultimate being, rather than the day to day of an alien life.
Given the progression of technology and understanding being an aparent exponential, the concept is that what would you become ultimately. Seems to me you'd become part of nature. And yeah we are nature, but I mean a basic fundamental simple force rather than a complex alien in a ufo.