I found that 90% alcohol wasn't the best choice of solvent. It's pretty harsh on the throat tissues as one might imagine. DMT freebase is also freely soluble in 50% alcohol so it seems that may work. But that's still inhaling export-strength vodka, and I haven't tried this yet.

The aqueous PG solution seems like a comparable method and may be gentler on the throat. I think for the long term aqueous DMT fumarate would be best although it presents issues with sterility. Perhaps addition of alcohol at 20% would act as a suitable preservative.

(I now wonder if a little freebase would dissolve in this fumarate/20% ethanol solution.)


What's been holding me back - besides being busy doing other things - is the low capacity of my nebuliser device and its propensity to clog. Obtaining a high-capacity device will only become a priority when cashflow permits.

I still think we will get this to work one day.

In the meantime, check out these guys. They found a way to deliver RNA with a nebulizer and got mice to produce fluorescent proteins.

I haven't forgotten this thread!

Having re-read the entire thing today, there are a few experiments to try regarding solvents:

- 50/50 DMSO/water
- 50% ethanol
- DMSO/water/ethanol
- DMSO/PG

Also it appears that a way to produce DMT.HCl using hardware store HCl without introducing non-volatile contaminants would be to place an open container of DMT freebase and an open container of HCl next to each other in a larger, sealed container. The HCl vapours will combine with the DMT, forming the hydrochloride. This will (presumably) liquefy on account of its hygroscopic properties. The liquid should then absorb more HCl and before long all the freebase will be converted to DMT.HCl syrup. Excess HCl can be outgassed with a vacuum pump or by adding distilled water and evaporating down with heat, repeated a few times.

You mean creating DMT.HCl which is water soluble so you don't need PG/DMSO/Ethanol? If so, why not use DMT Fumerate from FASA? Just dissolve some in water and inhale. I estimate 20% solution on a 0.5ml/min device. These didn't exist when this post started, they do now. And they are made and designed to inhale salts. Why bother with complicated ways to dissolve freebase in water which add volume and increase inhalation times and/or are unhealthy like inhaling alcohol?

To me a dmt salt solution seems like the easiest and most logical approach. I'd try myself but don't want to buy a nebu if some of you already own one and can test this.

I was probably referring to some questions further back in the thread - not that I recall without looking. Otherwise I'd not be describing how I'd attempt producing DMT.HCl when equally viable alternatives exist - as you rightly point out.

The solvents discussed are for dealing with freebase should there turn out to be a compelling reason why that might be preferred. But indeed, using a water-soluble salt does seem like the simplest, er, solution.


You're very welcome to buy me a new nebulizer if you feel so inclined That is the principle limiting factor in my lack of progress with these matters: The tedious propensity of my present nebulizer to clog, and its low output, are behind the cessation of efforts with this ROA at present. My present cashflow does not allow for the purchase of a replacement.

Ah bummer. Same here. Many idea's, little cash flow, haha. Guess we'll have to wait for someone who already owns a 0.5ml/min neb to read this and try, or someone else to buy one.

Actually IIRC they're not that expensive, possibly less than the €50 I spent on plants at the plant sale last weekend. But plants are plants and thus get priority over plastic boxes from China

When the time is right the nebulizer will appear.

Yeah true, also, 50 bucks aint much compared to what I've spend on my DMT smoking gear experiments over the years. Trying to limit my gadget expenditures now.

Or is the dmt holding us all back, cause the world isn't ready for the nebu phase yet?

Salutations SWIMfriend,



Please keep in mind this post of mine is only related to cannabis, not to mention some preliminary series of experiments actually occured quite a long while ago, for example early "FogBong!" ideas got tested during the last quarter of 2012:



Briefly put "empty" (fog-only) inhalation never felt threatening and much less like drowning, though it was necessary to recover normal breath previously to another toking attempt, e.g. it wasn't psychoactive of course while still leaving no free space for more. In addition, very little amounts of cold fog were injected into the cannabic stream via an adjustable "mixing site" anyway!

Worries eventually emerged after a week or so, when i realized that careful maintenance was mandatory (...), which may provide a hint as to why manufacturers of domestic nebulizers started to adopt Ultra-Violet LEDs trying to keep potential airborne pathogens under control, then heater-based designs seemed to gain popularity.

As a result of related safety considerations further experimentation involved steam from boiling water instead:



Though i must admit such conditioning never depended on steam as part of its "Release Agent", only "Transport".



At 1st the presence of moisture obviously improved breathing issues, then it progressively promoted abuse as a direct consequence of such apparent easiness, which in turn concluded with a need to "T-Break" once it started to feel lung-depressing... In other words the relief was divine initially, then it became counter-productive. Which prompted even more determination to explore a related alternative base on extra-hot exhaust gases from clean-burning butane pipes as from VaporGenie, with "Inlet Water" also performing self-moisturization conditioning as a bonus.





Apparently the tiny amounts of Inlet Water captured from the corona of a blue torch flame avoids any such inconvenience, toke after toke after toke. Lets keep in mind that air is a heat insulator, while Hot Dry Air used as the "Release/Transport Agent" comes with a specific heat capacity near unity...

In comparison steam is characterized with twice the specific heat capacity and hence this implies the VG pipe has a "Release/Transport Agent" ranging at some point between 1 and 2, which simply means it has been "potentiated" and hence carries some more energy i believe.

So...

Further experimentation combining such improved potency to "Pulse Heating" rendered possible by adopting an "Hybrid Core" clearly confirmed that intuition: there were gains in terms of aroma/taste appreciation while simultaneously taming down depletion of a bowl long enough to dry it out of its noble substances before it went dark.



Now, in an effort to respect the announced topic i'd suggest that the "Release/Transport Agent" may need to get broken down into separate processes. For example nebulizers may still prove most valuable by accelerating heat transfer by stirring a mix of Hot Dry Air & steam, which after all is supposed to be a better solvant than cold distilled water alone. Post-vaporization re-heating (à la Sublimator) may succeed generating even finer microscopic droplets i imagine.

The shorter a pulse the more potent it needs to get, at least that's what aroma/taste perception seems to infer. The reward is "conservation" as the heat wave is immediately followed by cool air that cuts overheating before unproductive damage is done.

...

M'well, i've been repeating these ideas for years and the words continuously failed nonetheless. Diaporama imagery hardly works neither, yet please try to envision a process similar to the medieval "catapult", in an era still ignoring the power of steam, electricity and semiconductors: just build a "Heat Charge" then near-instantly flood a vaporization chamber, followed by depletion that's equally fast ideally. The solution IMO is to adopt a "Shortest Path of Lesser Transformation" strategy made reality by juxtaposing an IH-driven susceptor with a pair of SiC Foam layers implementing a sandwhich structure with "Thermal Bottle" properties only required to last long enough to work in some transitional mode compatible with a 1-toke ritual.

Recently i even found a manufacturer of Induction Heat generators offering an on-line "calculator" where Silicon Carbide is listed among metals:





I suppose "dopants" must be incorporated into such SiC latice to obtain an electrically-conductive material which can be heated using the "skin effect". If that's no bogus claim then this is the shortest path imaginable while it can also behave as a direct relatively-inert support for practically any substance droplet one wishes to put on... Perhaps stirring then could be performed simply by shaking the "Release/Transport Agent" with ultra-sonic airwaves. Go figure!

Nonetheless apologies still failing to propose a ready-made commercially available solution.

Good day, have fun!!

Sounds interesting.. and very complex. That volcano water vapor combo would def condense FB on the glass.

My bet is still on dissolving 20% DMT Fumerate in water and hitting it with a 0.5ml/min nebulizer. Preferably with V.V.T. (virtual valve technology) such as The Omron A3.

Anyone?

So, I finally give nebulizing DMT a try..

All and all a cool experiment, having "vaped" DMT-Fumerate.
And it's an interesting method using room temp droplets instead of heat.

Dissolved 771mg DMT-Fumerate in 2ml water and loaded it into the Omron A3.

The Omron has 3 mist drop size settings:
1: large drops at 0.7ml/min
2: medium drops at 0.5ml/min
3: small drops at 0.3ml/min

I used settings 3 because the manual said that the smallest drops penetrate deepest into the lungs. Inhaled for 10 seconds 3 times (30 sec total). Holding breath for 10 seconds after each inhalation. Inhaling vapor was easy. Effect: very mild. Open eyed visuals, carpet moving etc, nothing special. Afterward felt a very mild burning sensation in deep throat and lungs, which disappeared after a couple of minutes. As if it dissolved away slowly.

30 min later second try. Inhaled 4x 13 second inhalations (50 seconds total). Holding breath for 10 seconds after each inhalation. Nice CEV going on. Felt nice also. No break through. Opened eyes around 5min later. Everything was moving intense. It worked!
But not very efficient.. 771mg DMT-Fum in 2000ml water is 28% DMT-Fum. The Omron manual states the device outputs 0.3ml/min on setting 3. That's around 2mg DMT-Fum per second (2ml / 0.3 ml/min = 6.6min. 771mg / 6.6min = 1.9mg/sec).

First try: 30s * 2mg/sec = 60mg DMT-Fumerate (like vaping 50mg freebase DMT by 120% conversion rate)
Second try: 50s * 2mg/sec = 100mg DMT-Fumerate (like vaping 82mg freebase DMT by 120% conversion rate)

I made sure that the vaporization rate was not less than 0.3ml/min by weighting the solution after vaping: 1.90g, Prior vaping it was 2ml (= 2g) + 771mg = 2.77g. Vaped: 2.77 - 1.90 = 0.85g. 850mg @ 28% = 238mg DMT-Fum. 283mg / (30s + 50s) = 3mg/sec. That's 1mg/sec more than calculated. Unfortunately I only measured the water by volume prior vaping instead of weighting the solution. Point is, the actual vaping rate was between 2mg and 3mg/sec (definitely not less than 2mg/sec). Meaning: sufficient vapor was produced, sufficient DMT was transported into the lungs. Problem is that the DMT dosage was very large for to the effect felt.

I suspect the inefficiency to occur due to droplets condensing in the mouth, throat and upper lungs area. Places where they don't enter the blood stream.

Another theory could be that DMT-Fumerate (in water droplets) is not a potent way to "vape" and that freebase DMT works better. The use of FB DMT can be tested: dissolve 800mg DMT in 0.8ml PG, and dissolve that in 1.2ml water. Not sure if the PG turns to mist as efficient as water, due to higher viscosity etc. Even if it does, in theory FB could be just as ineffective if most of it settles prior reaching the lungs.

One more thing to test can be nebulizing harmala salts. Maybe the drops which land in the mouth enter sublingually and the drops in the throat get swallowed and activated orally. And everything which does make the lungs of course through there. Not sure about the advatage over sublingual harmalas though.

For now I consider the nebulizing DMT vape myth busted.

But just to be sure, someone other than some one with different DMT-Fumerate and a different nebu should try as well.

...



Beginings rarely provide perfection the 1st time, yet it's still nice to see how this unfolds despite a noticeable absence of popular support; feels like déjà vu actually!

...

So now you're about to realize the consumerists want it sold for less than delivery pizza and quite preferably yesterday.


Good day, have fun!!

Most of the dosage settles in you throat and upper lungs prior reaching the area where it's absorbed into the bloodstream.

But feel free to experiment further..

That's how the respiratory tact should be doing its job It would seem that adding harmalas to the mixture should help with the efficacy for this ROA.

Absolutely not.

It was fun pioneering after reading a lot of talk about idea's and theories...

But unfortunately 50mg DMT only gave mild visuals for me.


As mentioned it would be interesting if someone gives this route a another try (eg. with harmalas or in PG) and report back.

so cool some one , thanks for putting in the work and congrats on good results. i was curious to know if it would work. the next thing to try should be IV DMT in a steady stream, like 20mg per min. maybe then you can obtain a steady stream of consciousness over there, so things will be less jumpy and its more prolonged. if it works dmt might turn out to be the final frontier

Well the results were not that good so it doesn't really work (yet)


That's been done: https://youtu.be/r7qliVpGEk0?t=637 (see 10:37 to 10:57 min)
(Don't watch the rest of this docu it's depressing lol)

If you want a long steady stream drink caapi and take DMT-fumerate capsules.
Build up the DMT to find your sweat spot where the visuals equal smoalking.
But that's another topic..

I keep repeating, you keep ignoring...

this was quite the read. I'm happy this is continuing to some degree. Hopefully a effective solution is possible soon, keep it up

I'd happily help later when I'm not so broke.