when I just shoot for a big breakthrough right away I always get this overpowering sort of freeky experience that I dont enjoy...like I cantmake sense of it..I dont do that anymore..

Low subbreakthrough doses with changa after some caapi tea is my favorite way of smoking spice..I take a few low doses and get really nice visuals and ecstatic feelings, and a profound sense of connection and love..feels like ayahuasca..then I load up a larger dose once I am already part way there and go fully into it...thats the only way i feel fully accepted in it and really get much out of it..and that way I am in it for about an hour or so..with a nice 5 minute peak where I am really immersed into it..

DMT is def one of my all time favorite experiences..maybe the most important for me..but it needs to be exectued a certain way..working with DMT is definatily an art that you learn as you go along.

SWIM knows exactly what you mean. SWIM notices this when he gets a decent dose before potentiators kick in and after they wear off. He also notices it with pure spice on the first hit, though follow-up hits seems to help eliminate this and take it to a more transcendent level. Full spectrum spice on its own will do the same thing, but follow-up hits are a lot closer to harmaloid potentiated spice. In any case, preparation with a warm-up hit or potentiators seems to make the experience much more pleasant and...well...useful.

Well, the more you're away, the colder it feels. The basic waitingroom does not only feel cold, but empty. Then, the intergalactic conglomerate of ancestors, spirit beeings travels to this place, you can feel that they're right behind the membrane. This is the point, where telepathic contact can be established. Then, it's up to you to a certain degree. You have to open yourself for love....

Two entitys talked from behind the veil to my friend from peru:

"How long it always takes until he gets it"....and they chuckled

My friend thought...well, what a shame...but now..now I get it!

Love was poured upon his soul in the same moment. He was in fact, drowning in it.

They also told him, that he needs to learn certain lessons before reaching higher realms.

^^Man, thanks for the feedback...That's what it feels like, an empty, cold waiting room. I come up against this wall or membrane of quite menacing, electric, slightly serpentine twisitng geometric visuals...and this experience can be immersive and impressive unto itself, but I've never managed to get further than this (one experience smoking DMT on LSD hinted at deeper realms that lay beyond).

I will continue to journey though...thanks

PS And fractal thanks for your suggestions

My friend from peru is in the same boat. There was one journey where he felt like beeing pretty close to breaking through. The patterns where vibrating in the most violent manner, buzzing, shooting through his body....they were like red-white blops of molten candy massaging his soul to a point of total ecstasy. Sometimes, there is an upward motion towards a multi-layerd floral pattern on embossed, dark metal ...traced with shimmering lines of exquisite color.

But then, it stops. Upon coming down, the beeings would cheer him up to smoke more...more..."That's not enough buddy, but just smoke more...easy man...yah, that's right, fill it up...take a deep breath...you're doing a fine job!"

Almost complete immersion with slight traces of the physical body.

Wow...that sounds so nice, I envy my peruvian friend!

That's interesting obliguhl, as SWIM gets this kind of chatter, though he can't so much translate it to english as simply get the gist of what's being communicated. Perhaps this isn't what you're talking about, but that's what SWIM is reminded of.


SWIM also feels feels that multiple controlled tokes in somewhat rapid succession give a more cohesive experience. That's how he started out, and it was pleasant enough that he never tired of journeying. When started doing it in a bong with a copper mesh bowl, the experience could get pretty strange, and that's when he took up harmaloid potentiation while smoking. But now he's reaching a level of control over how he tokes and a greater understanding as to what sort of practice produces what sort of experience, and though he's still prefers harmaloids, he's been going without for a couple weeks with full-range spice and has been thoroughly enjoying it. The spice in, any form, remains his fondest vehicle.

200mg and thats all that happens? You are smoking it wrong.

Coming from several years of making love to Ayahuasca, learning how to smoke is definitely a challenge and the dreamer can totally relate.

There is something interesting about energy in, energy out, the molecule reflecting everything a person does back in a curious way.

A little breath that goes straight to the brain is very brief--inhale, exhale--and very MENTAL.

Something ingested, that takes the tour to wind around through 25-30 feet of intestines, and pass through the stomach, which has a shitload of neurons of its own--the experience takes MUCH longer, and seems very more inclined to give not just the brain's opinions/observations, but invites the chorus of the entire body (which is sentient, by the way: welcome to class ).

Both are different, both are powerful, both can go extremely deep.

The dreamer's most successful smoking experiences--ALWAYS with changa at the end of an Aya ceremony--have been like swimming. Take a breath, go deep; take another breath, go deeper. Too much breath and passing out is certain. ^.~

Both methods of ingestion allow lessons and teachings to build on each other. Orally taken, the story is like a grand and epic novel. Smoked, the dreamer receives a meaningful collection of short stories.

Ha... or, kind of like, Matrix Anthology + Animatrix.

Great description and presented in a way that I never imagined.

here here. i suppose i will step up to represent the "lovers of vaporizing DMT" contingent. i have tried Espiridion's sublingual method as well as having done several aya sessions. they are life-changing. this medicine is gonna heal you no matter how you commune with it...

that being said, i will make my case for why i love to vaporize DMT...

for me, i have come to a place in my spiritual journey where i want to "unlearn". i want to "know" nothing. i simply want to "be". though i still use and have much appreciation for long, deep journeys like the ones experienced on oral DMT, i find a great deal of illumination and inspiration in having everything i know taken from me quickly and completely. it almost feels in some strange way like a more advanced test for what is to come.

death.

that's not to say that death may not come as a long, gradual transition for me. but it may just as likely come as quickly as it takes me to blink. either way, being able to let go with no time to allow the mind to "think" is quite attractive to me. i am not as interested in slowly undressing and unloading my "things" at the gates of the great beyond as i am eager to leap through the doorway naked as a jay-bird with no "things" in tow.

i would never be so bold as to say that one is better than the other. i do both and would never limit myself to one way of working with such beautiful medicine. my preferred method is vaporizing. if i want to have a longer time with my teachings, i will have a "vapohuasca" ceremony with a strong cup of aya-strength cappi tea followed 30 mins later with a .04 dose of vaped DMT. it is not "chaos" to me ever....because...really....what IS chaos? isn't it by definition simply that which we cannot make sense of? wouldn't the better way to work with the medicine in THIS particular manner be to understand that by vaporizing it we are surrendering ALL attempts to make sense of the experience? when viewed from this light, i think you might see a different beauty for this method of dialogue.

it is certianly not a waste and it is certainly not lesser, bad, not as good, pointless, stupid or any other such silliness. this particular form of imbibing spice is beautiful and it is IMPORTANT. it will ALWAYS be a powerful way for me to practice the deepest form of surrender. even aya cannot test me to let go with less fuss.

we are all hurtling toward the same end, each of us is approaching from our own unique angle of trajectory. the various types of journeys and ways of learning from this holiest of medicines are that way for a reason. we need different teachings at different times. if one way works for you, awesome. i say yes to all that is and all that will be. i stand for the growth and evolution of us ALL. just understand that our communications are as unique as the snowflakes we are consuming.

take salvia- i can only work with it when i quid it. i simply cannot have any kind of enriching experience with salvia when i smoke it...so i don't. yet, at the same time i also know that MANY folks get a lot out of smoking the diviner's sage. just as 69ron makes it clear that he dislikes smoking 5meo, so too are there communities of people who would tell you that this is the best way to experience the great oneness. i'm just suggesting that we be careful with putting any kind of negative juju on a particular form of consumption. all rivers lead to the sea...

today: vapohuasca. yesterday: pure spice. tomorrow: sublingual. tuesday through friday: changa. this coming weekend: pharma. one day: nirvana.

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

Well put brother!

Pokey

To answer my original question to this thread, the answer is NO!

When I posted I never had a breakthrough, even though I thought maybe I did. Once you have a breakthrough, you will never ask such a silly question.

Well there you go!