In my experience, the best stimulant (regarding the effect, tolerance-buildup, addiction, and side effects) is the amphetamine. The worst stimulant I’ve ever tried is caffeine. It is awful compared to amphetamine in every single detail.

I have near to unlimited access to amphetamine as it’s prescribed for me. Over many years, I never abused it (unlike caffeine). But I want to switch to something I grow for myself.

Please don’t recommend anything with caffeine in it. (Green tea, guara, etc.)

Please also don’t recommend placebo, such as Ginkgo, Rhodiola, Gotu Kola, Ginseng. If I write it on an empty pill shell "stimulant", and I take it, it makes me more alert than any of these.

Google and the Internet are not working anymore. I searched for "natural stimulants". I opened every link on the first result page. None of the articles mentioned Coca. This must be a crazy joke. How can it be not on the list?

(There was a single article that mentioned it but only in the description of the Kola Nut which was listed as a stimulant while Coca was not.)

Since Coca was not on any of the lists, I suggest there could be ten other efficient natural stimulants also missing from the lists.

Do you have any suggestions?

By the way, did someone try Coca? I found a page where I can order seeds.

You Can try to grow ephedra sinica at tour home if the weather permit it 😀

Well, ephedra, khat, coca and tobacco come to mind. For most people, everything other than tobacco is not reasonable to grow at home for semi-regular use. I'd like to be wrong about that, so if someone knows differently please chime in.

I'm guessing tobacco isn't what you're looking for either. Oral tobacco isn't too unhealthy compared to smoking, but it's fairly bad for your oral health (even resinous concentrates like chimo and ambil irritate the mouth, probably due to the high pH). I wouldn't be surprised if chimo and ambil have high levels of TSNA, although I have never seen an analysis. Vaporizing tobacco is possible, not terribly ideal though. IIRC, the best way to condition the vapor is adding things like propylene glycol and at that point you might as well just vape concentrates (i.e. e-cigarette) like a normal person. I doubt preparations for snorting (snuff, rapé ) are terribly great for your nose, and you'll get a drip etc. I've tried all the above for the record... I like nicotine but can't really get what I'm looking for without health consequences. Transdermal/poultice next probably to try with sleep.

Comparing caffeine and amphetamine (or tobacco) is like apples to oranges. I like coffee as a stimulant though, coupled with l-theanine if I haven't exercised.

P.S. First time thuốc lào videos are pretty entertaining if you've never seen them. Not my thing though.

Thank you both. I’m sure I will get Coca and ephedra no matter what it takes. I will check out khat, and skip tobacco.

After many years of not smoking, I got back on nicotine with a medical tool. I bought it at the pharmacy. I ended up chain vaping for years. I developed horrible tolerance coupled with addiction. That was before I diagnosed my ADD.

I quit nicotine with a self-hypnosis audio recording.

Once, when I quit coffee, I used to drink 20-25 cups a day. But even a few cups are horrible on my stomach.

I took Elvanse for almost six years. After six years, I used to take the same dose I took on the first week, or even less. I could quit any time without issues. If I take it today, I don’t need it tomorrow. If I would drink a coffee today, I would long for it for a week maybe. Alcohol was the same.

I promised myself that I would never drink alcohol or coffee again. (Coke is okay once in a while.)

Many years ago, I used to take ephedrine. It made me a bit moody but I will try the plant.

A few days ago I ordered the Lion’s Mane mushroom in pill form. It seemed better than the placebos (Rhodiola, Gingko, etc) but not strong enough.

Today, I took four or six pills instead of two (normal dosage on the box).

I think I feel it. I will try to take more tomorrow without other things.

It would be awesome if it worked because growing mushrooms is a lot of fun.



So beautiful.

Hi Anonymous2

I suggest to you (Ilex) Guayusa Leaves, its in the same family as (Ilex) Mate.
I started drinking it about a year ago and I absolutely love it ...It does have some caffeine in it but at the same time it has theobromine and other stuff in it, that you won`t find in other caffeine sources. Effect wise, it is not like coffee at all...it is stimulating but not in a jittery way (I think widens the blood vessels, where caffee makes them narrower). Effects are more zen-like, meditative and very focused.
It also carries some euphoria in stronger doses (I think due to the theobromine in it).

Regarding coca:
I have tried dried leaves from colombia in tea form and I am not too impressed. It is stimulating and a bit euphoric but not crazy...Its not the best stimulant IMO. If you had access to loads of raw material and could chew it however, it would be great. If you get yourself seeds, keep in mind that the seeds only germinate when they are VERY fresh. I think as soon as the seeds are dried they don`t anymore (from what I read). That means getting good seeds is tricky.
Ephedra I only tried unsucessfully, but I am growing some E. Helvetica from seed right now and they are real slow growers.

Take Care
PlantPipeline

EDIT: I just saw you don`t want to ingest caffeine anymore, sorry. I can only say Guayusa to me and others I gave it to, doesn`t feel like Coffee, Green Tea, Guarana, Mate etc.

Hello PlantPipeline,

maybe I should skip coca. I tried cocaine maybe 2-3 times in my life, and it put me on a huge wave of happiness followed by a slightly longer period when I wanted to cry. I’ve been told it happened because it wasn’t pure. Maybe. But the ballast material the dealers usually put in it (caffeine, lidocaine) won’t cause such emotional spikes.

Ephedrine was a bit similar to cocaine regarding the crash. Ritalin (Concerta) was a bit similar too but more manageable. Crash-wise, amphetamine was better than any of them.

As for theobromine, isn’t it in the cacao and chocolate?

As far as I see, the Guayusa grows 6-30 meters tall. I might need to apply certain changes to my next apartment. Transporting it will be a lot of fun too.

I will try it, although I want to switch to a 100% self-supplying life in some areas.

I believe COVID is only the beginning of significant changes coming to this world. That’s why the best option would be a stimulant mushroom which is easy to carry with me on an agar plate if I move. The second best would be a tiny and fast-growing plant.

I would take a closer look at Catha edulis, Anonymous2. As a plant, it is tolerant of quite a bit of cold and dry air, not picky with soil. The seeds are relatively common and more like traditional temperate garden plant seeds.

Erythroxylum is very finicky in regards to almost every aspect of its environment, from what I've heard. They need a specific type of soil, temperature and humidity range, and are known to simply not like certain environment. Also, the seeds are quite a bit harder to get ahold of, especially from the European perspective, and must be planted immediately. Though there is at least one source one the web I have heard is reputable, though I have no experience with this.

Both of these plant species are the only ones comparable to amphetamine or its near relatives, as I understand. Ephedra comes close, but ephedrine is said to be quite the different experience from amphetamine, with much more side effects.

Without a small plantation of either plant you won't be able to replace a daily pharma stimulant... I think, I don't know but you'd surely need more than a small plant...

I started a Catha over the winter with a light, it's been adjusting to the cold outside and growing very, very slowly. I imagine it will pick up once the heat comes.
They have quite tiny seeds, and I had to go through 50 of them to get one to germinate, but that might be old seeds or bad practices. Takes some months to get them to a good size.
They take cutting back well though, and could be kept as a small indoor shrub.
It'll be a once in a blue moon experience for me, I don't like stimulants much but can be very useful for an emergency.

Better a raw plant product than an extracted compound in this dimension, that's for sure.

Absolutely. When I get valuable advice, I always do a deep research regarding every hint. I didn’t say thank you for each of you who helped but I am grateful for all the answers.



I think ephedrine was the sole stimulant in my life I didn’t use up after I managed to get a few boxes of it. It made me so emotional that anyone told me a bad word when I was on it, I felt like crying.

I got it as an anti-asthma medication hence the purity shouldn’t have been an issue.

It happened in my self-medicating period when I was not aware of my ADD but I tried to solve it because I knew something was wrong.

In the last few years of my teenage period, I visited goa parties almost every weekend. Sometimes, I didn’t sleep and eat for two-three days.

Of course, almost everyone took drugs on the parties. I started it with LSD but soon I switched to amphetamine. It made me feel normal but I was afraid I got addicted because I was missing it during the week. However, I needed it in a much smaller amount than most people with whom I partied, and it stayed like that for years. In the end, I quit, only to learn it fifteen years later I was indeed self-medicating, and it was far the best synthetic drug I’ve ever taken.

When I got it prescribed, I never abused it.

Cocaine and ecstasy made me crash much bigger than the amphetamine, and ephedrine already made me emotional before the crash.

I peeked into it’s Wiki page for a minute as I am super busy now, but it looks promising. Nevertheless, I will get the other plants too.

Today, I took six Lion’s Mane pills instead of the recommended two. Forget it. Whatever I felt earlier, could have been the Chaga pill I ordered too and took them together. However, I read that Chaga must be harvested in the wilderness. So, I will go with the plants.

Try the wim hof method. Combination of exposure to cold and breathing exercises. Guaranteed to give you an adrenaline rush.

When I’m driving, and I feel I would fall asleep, getting an ice-bath seems less likely a solution than taking a pill.

I like drugs. That’s why they are created.

One could ask, "Why would the mushrooms or any DMT-plant develop chemicals that make one enlightened? How does it make sense? What’s the evolutionary advantage of it for the mushrooms and the plants?"

These are reasonable questions until you realize that God likes drugs. That’s why they exist.

It’s a choice.

Stimulants are fun too.

The only drug-free method that worked for me is self-hypnosis. It is amazing. One session made me quit smoking.

Then just try the breathing technique. Not while driving, because you might pass out, but just park the car somewhere and try it out. It is actually quite powerfull. Definately comparable with stimulants.

I will try it today.

The best result might be a combination. I mean, if I sit down with the ephedra and khat plants, and do the breathing TEK, all the CO2 I emit will make the plants grow super fast, and produce me a lot of drugs.


(I checked out his intro video, and it’s interesting. Thank you.)

I checked it out. I believe it works. I also believe you have no ADD.

ADD doesn’t fit with anything repetitive. In the ideal world, I would not do the same thing twice in my life.

(With hedonistic exceptions such as sex, drugs, receiving a massage.)

Even eating is annoying. I have done it already. I have eaten. I already proved I could do it. Why do I have to pass the test again?

That’s the ADD mind.

Meditation and exercise suck for the same reason. Self-hypnosis works because I can talk to myself, and I can make it different every time.

Now let me see how to order the plants.

The closest naturally occurring stimulant you'll get to amphetamine would be C.edulis (khat) in terms of acute effects, mechanism of action, and even structurally speaking differing only by a ketone group attached to the beta carbon on the ethyl chain separator.

E.coca (coca) would be my favorite stimulant but I'd recommend some good caution before you use it. IME It's essentially a small-moderate dose of cocaine that has been released more slowly but still pretty fast if you quid with an alkali such as sodium bicarbonate. It's much 'cleaner' than street product longer lasting (~1.5hrs/quid) and won't leave you feeling in the gutter fiending for more, UNLESS you take a lot like quid >3 in a row, but even then the side effects aren't nearly as bad but still there nonetheless as are the effects.

I want to note that allot of the things you'll here from online advocates is how different it is from its isolated concentrate (cocaine) in terms of safety. Just because the dose is less and absorbtion slower, relative to insufflation, inhalation, etc... It still poses the same cardiovascular dangers as cocaine such as myocardial infarction, stroke, hypertension, etc... because this is the alkaloid primarily responsible for the effects of this plant. Obviously the scale is reduced and therefore the risks too but the risks are still present, especially if you already have cardiovascular problems, or other risk factors (e.g. smoking) that make you more susceptible to experience the more toxic effects of coca-cocaine. Obviously this caution should be taken when it comes to khat-cathinone too but coca-cocaine takes the cake for recreational cardio-toxicity.

Edit: I've seen tobacco (nicotine) and ephedra (ephedrine) been suggested and just wanna throw out as a stimlulant nictoine has been somewhat contradictory to me in nature, it won't generate the similar energetic, euphoric push like amphetamines like khat and cocaine from coca provide. When I smoke a cigarette or puff a vape I just feel clear headed and relaxed. Ephedrine will provide a adreneline type feel but none of the euphoria or anti-depressant activity that dopaminergic stimulants like coca and khat provide, you'll just feel jittery-anxious and stimulated with heart palpitations IME.

I was hoping you'd make a post on coca.

It's worth noting that low doses of nicotine are stimulating and larger doses are sedating (apparently called Nesbitt's paradox).

In my opinion: Considering the steep rise and fall in plasma concentration with smoking, it really does not lend itself to stimulation. I think the buzz and effects people are chasing tend to sedative in nature, and smoking/vaping really lends itself to so called self-titration (i.e. getting exactly how high you want to be). Many nicotine users are addicts, so that presumably changes things too (it does with caffeine anyways... "insurmountable tolerance" to dopaminergic effects).

I've had some very restless nights from not handling fresh rustica plants carefully.

For the sake of completeness I guess areca nuts could be mentioned, but that's definitely not a very attractive option or feasible to grow.

To me, addiction alone wouldn’t be the end-of-the-world issue. Addiction with tolerance buildup is.

And that’s what caffeine and nicotine do.

I see my girlfriend ordering all the Omega-3-6-9 pills and who knows what else. She just sent me a photo.

It’s 100% the same I did for years before I figured out the ADD. She has it too (no big surprise). Unlike me, she does yoga every day and who knows what. (She is Russian so you can imagine.)

I know they don’t help. She knows it too. She does what she can. In her country, ADD is not even recognized by doctors. I can’t give her my pills because that’s not how it should be. Anyway, she is not with me now due to the virus.

Since I grow mushrooms, I quit two of the three medications I took for years. I stopped Wellbutrin and Concerta with near to zero withdrawal effect. Compared to them, nicotine and caffeine are freaking awful.

Now I touch only Elvanse once in a while. (90% less often). But I want to grow something for both of us. I ordered the Khat and Ephedra seeds. Let me hope they will cross the border.

PS: I didn’t quit the meds because they were bad. No, they were great. I just want to supply myself in 100% and be independent of the system. Also, mushrooms and pharma help so I need way fewer stimulants than before.

Well said RoundAbout, yeah I guess what I was trying to say was that nicotine isn't as straight forward a stimulant as say drugs like caffeine, cathinone and cocaine. It definitely has stimulant qualities but how apparent these effects are depends on other factors like you already mentioned, tolerance, time, dosage, etc... Any of the three C's mentioned above will always reduce fatigue and increase alertness no matter what the circumstance in a manner to what people would expect as a 'classical' stimulant effect. Don't mean to go off on a tangent but this is why I'm against sticking drugs in rigid classifications (e.g. stimulants, depressant, etc...) They're all unique!

Anyway thought just came to mind whilst discussing the nature of nicotine. I haven't tried kratom myself but from what I've read online it seems to have a contradictory-paradoxical nature like nicotine regarding how its effect profile changes from stimulant to depressant with increased dosage. So you could try a low dose of mitragynine and see how that serves your purpose as an atypical stimulant.

Today, I took my Elvanse after a few weeks of break.

I realized that one of the reasons I didn’t get the apartment I applied for was that I stopped taking Elvanse.

During this period, I was "lazy" or annoyed to call my accountant and the real estate agent every day to ask if they did the paperwork. I expected them to be adults.

No, that’s not true. I didn’t expect them to be adults. I just didn’t feel to call them like a parent.

One paper was missing, and they gave the apartment to someone else, who applied later than I did.

This is when I don’t take Elvanse.

I wasn't lazy in common sense. I wasn’t lying in the bed all day. In fact, I have never been as busy in my life as I am now.

It’s just without the stimulant, I don’t do things I don’t like to do. For example, calling people I whom I pay, and asking them to answer their emails.

Last time I quit all my meds, I damaged my car twice a week. (Then I started taking them again).

Nothing compares to amphetamine.

I hope my khat seeds will arrive.

Heureka. Today, I received 50 ephedra and 10 khat seeds.

Maybe I should give them stimulants to make them grow fast.