Greetings fellow travelers!

I have some questions to ask the collective wisdom here. My interest in 5-MeO-DMT have lately increased greatly after reading the book "Tryptamine Palace" by James Oroc. So I would like to ask what the different travelers here think of 5-MeO-DMT? How is it contra DMT? What are, in your experience, the major differences?

According to what I've managed to learn so far 5-MeO-DMT is a lot less visual than DMT, and it is easier to blast yourself out of your own body because the dosages are significantly smaller than those of DMT. The experiences seems very harsh but very interesting, and with a successful attempt they seem to plunge you straight in to a full mystical experience, Unio Mystica (at least according to James Oroc in his book).

Any insight and knowledge appreciated!

Be very carefull with this substance. The most positive experiences i have with it, is taken orally via chaliponga in ayahuasca.

The main difference with other forms of ingestion is besides that chaliponga contains other compounds as well like DMT, bufotenin and beta-carbolines, that 5-MeO-DMT taken orally with harmala's has a more visual and a more visionary effect.

To me the main effect of 5-MeO-DMT is that it creates a sudden and very intense sense of total alienation, wich is quite intimidating.
Taken orally, this remains so, but it gains a very strong visionary quality that i can only compare with a large amount of cactus.

It's visionary quality, this way is greater than of DMT, although it is far less extatic and beautyfull.
The best description i can give is that your visions become very tangible and they have a sense of realness that nothing else has.

The 'blueberry' ayahuasca clip on youtube gives a good imression of what to expect visually, but not emotionally.

There is nothing that compares with the psychological impact of this substance, except maybe some other 5-MeO-tryptamine RC's.
Many people are absolutely freaked out by this.

Don't smoke it and be very moderate on the doses you take.

Once you've become familiar with it....don't make the mistake of thinking you can easily double your dose.

smoking 5-meo-dmt is like going to into the hearth of terror. its awesome but scary yet somehow also blissful. SWIM has seen friend insulfate it and they just writhe around for a while and usually vomit. never heard anything could from that route. SWIM hear sublingual is one of best ways to go.

The blissfullness usually comes when you start to come down and you realize that you're still alive.

This is how 5-MeO-DMT compares to DMT

* It’s more potent, especially when smoked.
* It’s active orally as is while DMT is not.
* When smoked the whole trip lasts about half as long as a DMT trip, and the peak comes on faster.
* It’s way more active sublingually (doses of as little as 1 mg can be felt).
* The visions it produces are normally darker and lack color.
* It has far more psychedelic “mind fuck” than any other psychedelic.
* The body effects and euphoria feels more like mescaline, and not much like a tryptamine.

SWIM finds 5-MeO-DMT to be unpleasant when smoked. It hits you really fast. As soon as you’re half way done with your very first inhalation the effects are beginning. The visual effects are uninteresting. There might be some swirling effects, or a “white out” might occur at high doses. But a true visionary state is rarely possible with it on its own, but very possible if combined with harmala alkaloids.

There’s an LSD-like quality to 5-MeO-DMT’s “mind fuck”. But the “mind fuck” potential of 5-MeO-DMT goes way beyond anything LSD can do.

I think the thing most people don’t like about 5-MeO-DMT is the “mind fuck”. It can cause mental looping, and cause thoughts that make no sense at all. For example, in one of SWIM’s trips all of his thoughts became squares and right angles. His mind was constructing giant squares and right angles. His emotions felt like squares, everything was like a square. This was highly complex, and it was like the whole universe was just a bunch of squares and that nothing else existed. While fascinating, it could really freak someone out if they feel that they are also a square. This type of bazaar abstract thinking is fascinating for SWIM, but not something SWIM likes too often. Only 5-MeO-DMT is capable of warping his mind to such a degree.

Visions seen can make no sense. In one of SWIM’s visions, which was dark and without color, he saw a skeleton face will an infinite amount of eyes that stretched all across the universe for infinity. This is an image that is impossible to exist and yet SWIM saw it.

In one trip, SWIM’s tooth brushes were flirting with each other like people would do. It was fun to watch but also a little spooky.

5-MeO-DMT has a dark quality. There’s a cold alien feature to its effect. The visions it produces are often not about you, and are very alien and complex.

In one of SWIM’s trips, he experienced what could only be described as “remote viewing”. It looked COMPLETELY REAL. No other psychedelic has done that to SWIM before.

It’s a fascinating compound. If you’re going to give this a try, I highly recommend using it sublingually as the fumarate salt, or sublingually from Virola theiodora resin. I don’t recommend smoking it at all. It’s very unpleasant when smoked. It comes on too quick and just intoxicates you beyond belief that way. You’ll gain little from it that way.

I agree with ron for the most part however here is my view:

5-MeO-DMT is basically devoid of CEV and OEV visuals aside from some mild swirly patterns without color. WIth open eye there seem to be mild distortions of the environment but nothing like the visual hallucinogens.

It is very powerful when smoked even 5mg. However for SWIM the effects are about 2x as long as that of DMT (15-20 minutes). It is extremely somatosensory with strange body hallucinations almost like a dissociative (PCP, ketamine, nitrous oxide) and has strong psychological effects which can be very powerful and meaningful or confusing. It definitely is partially a dissociative in nature this effect can be called/seen as an out of body or near death experience depending on how one interprets it. I have learned a lot from 5-MEO-DMT, especially to care more about the "important" things in life. It is very powerful and should be respected and used with great care. However as Ron said it can be confusing and disorienting for many and many people avoid it for this fact. It is not as controllable as other hallucinogens.

When in-sulfated with a small amount of an MAOI it is clear and clean almost LSD-like. It lasts about 45min with a bit of an after glow. The effects are milder and more enjoyable (manageable) than inhalation. However I have noticed there are some somatic effects like increased heart rate.

Combination of 5-MEO-DMT and DMT is very bizarre. Visuals are retained but become darker in color, and are certainly altered in intensity and content. The effect is very somatosensory and powerful psychologically and some of SWIMs most bizarre experiences have been with this combo via inhalation.

Thank you for some very great and detailed replies people, this is much appreciated.

It is quite interesting how so many people associate it with horror and terror, and that many see it as unpleasant in its nature, generally quite the opposite of DMT. This substance is really intriguing to me actually. Especially after reading James Oroc fucked up book "Tryptamine Palace", which is a whole book dedicated to his exploration of 5-MEO-DMT over the course of several years. James Oroc seem to have gotten very much out of it, having had some very strong mystical experiences on it.

Have you had breakthroughs on this substance before? Because according to James Oroc a successful breakthrough leaves you right in a state of Unio Mystica, Union with God, ultimate reality, merging with the infinite light, infinite love, whatever term you wish to use. The experience is nevertheless a one of unity with <insert prefered description here>. Any thoughts on this?

My only experience with 5-Meo was smoking a fair size dose one night.

Personally, for me, it was a VERY powerful, but incredibly blissful experience. I don't recall any terror, more just awe in the experience of becoming more heavily intoxicated in a few seconds than I ever had been before in my life. The feeling was akin to being plunged under water, or under pressure a bit, not in a scary way, just this feeling of massive, heavy intoxication.

Then I was plunged into this space of white light. This was pure oneness, pure bliss, pure awareness and sensation. Ineffable. There were a few geometric shapes flitting around in this mist in this space, but these weren't important compared to the feeling involved. I recall my pulse was racing, and I felt sick...my body wasn't enjoying the ride, but my mind was in enveloped in this utterly ecstatic oceanic/light space. I also got the impression that I had got a taste of 5-Meo in a previous Chaliponga experience quite a few years previous.

So, on this encounter, I didn't get 'the fear'. This was my one and only 5-Meo experience, but I have found some of my smoked DMT experiences to be a lot more confrontational and unwelcoming feeling than I experienced with the 5-Meo. However I might be a bit of a freak in this regard! Also it might a bit weird to say, but who says a little bit of terror or fear now and again is any bad thing?

A very powerful, interesting and bizarre substance that deserves CONSIDERABLE respect. Would love to try it again one day via the sublingual route.

Thanks for your post Bancopuma! Your experience is the one I have been reading about as well, and it is one that is often associated with this substance (if you take away the terror and horror many experience). Is it just me, or may it seem like the majority of users of this substance don't get to experience the better side of it? It seems to be either filled with terror and fear, or filled with bliss and sacredness.

I have also very positive experiences with it, but mostly when taken as an ingredient of ayahuasca.

It certainly is intruiging and has something to it that goes deeper than DMT goes.

I find it less enjoyable though.

You can see things with it, when taken as chaliponga in ayuasca, no other substance can make you see, with an incredible clarity and sharpness.

But it has an alien touch to it. It has a cold and mercyless feeling to it. It can be impressive, beautyfull and it can feel sacred in a way, but i find it hard to realy love this substance as much as i love the thing that comes closest to it wich is mescaline.

The terror and fear part of it some people feel, is related to this coldness and alienness of it.
It alienates you from everything including yourself. You can be lifted not only out of your body, but also out of your 'self', out of 'you'.

I can easily describe it, but you got to experience it to know what it feels like.
It's like something about everything is different. Like somebody changed everything there is: your body, your mind, your environment, people you know, your memories.....but you can never realy figure out what it is that is different, everything is just not the same anymore.

Is it possible there are some people who are extremely insensitive to 5-Meo?

I have had very interesting experiences with Chaliponga added to Ayahuasca brews--but, only after (cautiously, systematically) increasing my dose to the ~30g range (which, from what I understand, should be INSANITY). I've ruled out different batches and different sources, so it's not weak material; in extremely large doses, I do experience *the darkness* of visions, and psycho-somatic effects many say are characteristic of the 5, and none of which are present with the usual nn-only sources.

Any ideas what may effect tolerance, interesting thoughts on how and why it differs from nn-DMT? Does route of ingestion matter?

This is doubly intriguing, because I experience powerful effects when microdosing with Caapi, feel things from .5g Mimosa, 20-30g Chacruna...

I've also only had positive experiences with Chali; one word I can think of to describe how it differs would be "archetypal."

(If I were to try 5-Meo through any other route of ingestion, I would still start slowly, systematically, with ridiculously small doses, and would never endorse approaching an entheogen in any other way.)

The way Polytrip describes 5-MeO-DMT is very much the way SWIM feels about it. It is alien. This alien quality is similar to LSH, but much stronger.

Also, the way Bufoman describes it as being somewhat of a dissociative is also something SWIM feels is an element of the 5-MeO-DMT experience that is lacking from most other tryptamines. The first few times SWIM used 5-MeO-DMT he only experienced dissoviative effects from it. It wasn’t until he started using it more that its psychedelic effects were noticed.

Often when SWIM relaxes and closes his eyes on sublingual 5-MeO-DMT, he can experience dark harmala style daydream-like effects from it. SWIM is not at all present in the daydreams. It’s as if he ceases to exist until he opens his eyes again.

This is fascinating material. You can learn a lot from it.

All of SWIM’s experiences with it orally and sublingually have been pleasant. The only time he’s had unpleasant effects from it was when it was smoked and the dose was a little too much.

I cannot belive people taking 30 grams of chaliponga, that is just,..wow!..minxx do you usually need alot of DMT to get visons? It is also possibel that you have not had chaliponga that is high in 5meo..alot of it could just be loaded with DMT...or you could have a higher tolerance to the real mindwarping effects of 5meo..like have you ever lost conciousness and had dreams where you did not exist with doses like that?

5 grams of chali is as high as I ever care to go...I have experienced everything spoken of above at 5 grams in a brew..especially the dreams ron speaks of where I am not really there at all..

I wouldnt drink 30grams even if someone payed me $1000!

I have taken some really massive doses of mushrooms in my time with entheogens and still 5 grams of chaliponga has had me in loops of creation and destruction that seemed to go on and on and on and on!

Be careful people.

Fractal, I thought I'd share just because it's interesting. I do NOT need high amounts of nn-dmt to activate, 1-2g Mimosa is *plenty.* One of my strongest journeys ever was with 30g Chacruna... I'm usually very sensitive. A gram of little helpers...

When I hear about people taking 8g Mimosa or 9g of mushrooms, I feel like

But... not with Chali. I've tried different batches from different places (reputable sources), and it really does take that much to get anything by way of effects. (And the taste is horrendous, I think one of the last times I drank, I threw up all over my plate after 10 minutes of ingestion, and my mouth tasted like BURNT HAIRSPRAY, uuughh!)

I've never lost consciousness, but I have felt *the darkness* and *the distance.* Also, a hugely archetypal, mythic kind of feeling from this one.

So I was wondering if anyone could shed light on the different mechanisms that 5-Meo uses. Since it tends to be such a love/hate relationship--people either getting extremely terrified or feeling extreme blissful union with god--I wonder if different people metabolize it different ways?

(I feel the need for disclaimer again, this is probably not normal and one should SLOWLY work their way up from the bottom with Chali. *!*)

This is possible. I have article that talks about different ways these compounds get metabolized. Its even possible 5-meo-dmt can metabolize into bufotenine in the body / brain. I don't think its been demonstrated in vivo yet though.

Either way SWIM should say. The terror part of 5meo is not a bad thing. SWIM just choose those words because its like plunging into this totally alien (as other put it well) atmosphere. Its scary yet awesome at the same time. Its even more awesome when you realize your not going to dieing

5meo is nice to combine with other substances too. At the comedown of other psychedelics its really nice. Also oddly it combines well with GHB. This actually also makes it more visual no idea why though. It also eliminates the terror part for some reason.

Thanks for more replies guys. This is a very fascinating substance indeed, one substance that as the dedicated psychonaut I am should explore if the opportunity provides itself. Even tho it may create terror and horror I too think it is amazing in its own unique way, just as burnt says. Or I might see the other coin of this substance, which is the experience of pure bliss and oneness (an interesting and thought provoking experience indeed).

The history of this substance is very interesting and a bit mysterious as well. Not to mention that one could go hunt the Bufo alvarius toad and smoke its venom! It contains 5-MeO-DMT, and that is an amazing fact. The little bastards possesses an unusual enzyme, O-methyl-transferase, that converts bufotenine into 5-Meo-DMT in the toad's parotid and tibial glands. Interestingly, these glands are conspicuously represented in Mesoamerican art going back as far as 2000BCE.

may the force be with you.