This is just backstory to have an idea where I’m standing. Out the gate my mental state bit of a mess as a default. As far back as I can remember I’ve been obsessed with death been suicidal self destructive had a death wish and, while never unfounded, had bouts of explosive violence. I know it sounds redundant but each of those is it’s own thing. It’s hard for me to explain. I struggle with mental illness that still hasn’t been fully defined for me but the basis is a chronic codependent depression and anxiety. I have a lot of markers for borderline personality disorder and schizophrenia but as of now I haven’t been observed enough to be diagnosed. Or something... I gave up on I guess what you would call the system after my last admittance to a facility. I was in there for 2 and a half months where I was given tons of different drugs I can’t remember but my prescription at the end was trazadone lexapro lithium buspirone hydroxizine and Motrin and hydrocodone as needed. I had a one month supply on release but the psychiatrist I was released to wouldn’t prescribe me anything at all. My therapist although a great guy admitted he was unqualified to help me with therapy and that my psychiatrist was scared to prescribe me anything because her practice would be liable if I went and did something stupid on their drugs. He tried to get me transferred out to somebody else but being back woods nowhere I would have to move and neither me nor my family have any means to do so. The withdrawals from going cold turkey off only a little over 3 months of those meds were horrid and lasted almost a month themselves. Made me realize I’ll never go back through any of that again and I won’t be reliant on a drug to function. I had done psychedelics plenty recreationally but this was the point I began looking at it more as a non addictive tool for self therapy than simply a soul expanding beautiful experience.
I’ve done my research I know the data but I’m asking for a first hand personal experience kind of question. My perspective is dipping downward drastically again. The same things that uplift me after a breakthrough are weighing me down. My self consuming pure water is back to sludge. I just don’t have the energy to keep fighting alone. I know it’s time for another look at myself. I know it’s time to open that door again. I was really hoping I could maintain the momentum but I’ve lost it. I know what I need right now but what about longevity? If I have to be reliant on something this is still the best thing I’ve encountered but I don’t like the idea being unable to clean myself without it. I have strong moments of clarity more frequently now on my own but still will I ever be able to break away from the teat? Has anyone here been able to truly overcome a broken mind? What other techniques can I look into? What meditative practices would work on a non suggestive mind? Most anything I can find I already put into practice or simply has no effect for me. Just I’m reaching out for somebody who understands this kind of struggle and found options when all conventional options and everything relatively close has been exhausted. The closest I’ve had to stability is dragging the bottom so hard there’s no possibility to crash. I’m at a point where that’s the one thing I need and the one place I can’t be and my only answer is using the most powerful psychedelic at high doses as a bandaid nudging my nose back up and even that is highly temporary. What can I do from here?
Any experience in this matter at all would be greatly appreciated

Well... I can't say anything to your self-diagnosois- you are the pilot of your vehicle, but if you are looking for advice on your decision to use psychs to address it- here a couple cents worth. They can be very, very useful tools to address depression and certain mental health conditions but can also be counter-productive if not used "properly"(!) or with discretion, and without being only a part of a holistic practice. Your mental health doesn't exist by itself in a vacuum, it is the result of the entirety of your general health. Diet, excercise, sleep, work, finances,education, relationships, family,awareness of things greater than you...all these things both play a role in it and are affected by your mental state. Using psychs can help put all that in perspective and have helped me contruct a holistic living practice that, while it does not erase bad days, helps greatly with ameliorating the bulls##t.

Your idea that you may be latently schizophrenic is concerning, because while some disagree with me, I wholeheartedly believe that conditions marked by hallucination are contraindicated for psychedelic use. I have seen over and over how people may gain a temporary bit of clarity with those conditions from psychs, but soon it seems that their entire psyche shatters and they are unable to put the crazy-puzzle pieces back together. People have been unable to parse hallucination from intuition and end up chasing smoky ghosts into the woods.

Good luck, I do not envy your position, it sounds like a very tough place to be. Wishing peace for you, and for you to be good to you.

I very much appreciate the response null. I try very hard to be good to myself these days. I’ll say that’s not a self diagnosis it’s a prediagnosis. After extensive research myself I could say bpd is a very real possibility for me but I highly doubt the schizophrenia. I don’t have delusions just an awful often uncontrollable perspective of reality. I don’t have delusions I just look at reality and hate it. Strange to say but the clarity I get from the ego death is a very simple thing. It’s just an “oh yeah I chose this and I have something to do before I go home.” I can remember the words but the feeling escapes me and I’m left in my petulant hole. I feel purposeless regardless of the words and data I can run through my brain and there’s nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose especially to himself. I just want control of my perspective back you know? That’s why I’m asking here because who knows perspective better than fellow psychonauts?

Yes but psychedelics take away control. Be very careful. In my very humble oppinion, this is not the way to go about it. I truly think the right book, or right hobby, or right relationship, is the way out of this rut you are in...psychedelics? Be wary of them. Be wary of looking at them as your salvation, cause they are not. My friend, if you have a weak or struggling broken mind, please enter into psychedelics with 100% caution. There is no going back. You can always be worse...more broken...keep this in mind and count your blessings.

Books I reccomend; Scripts People Live by Claude Steiner. Think on These Things by Krishnamurti.

Hey Swarra,

Dealing with a similar situation myself, I have thrown myself into research and practical experimentation.

Last week was very bad and I hit rock bottom, however this week I am busy with researching and extraction. It has been a problem in the past for me to try and escape using recreational substances, however, since finding this site and learning much, I have become focused and inspired to produce my own meds, that I can experiment with and learn from.

As far as overcoming a broken mind...from my point of view, a broken mind is a very delicate vessel, however still usable and beautiful but with extreme love and care, like Kintsugi.

Hey Swarra,

Dealing with a similar situation myself, I have thrown myself into research and practical experimentation.

Last week was very bad and I hit rock bottom, however this week I am busy with researching and extraction. It has been a problem in the past for me to try and escape using recreational substances, however, since finding this site and learning much, I have become focused and inspired to produce my own meds, that I can experiment with and learn from.

As far as overcoming a broken mind...from my point of view, a broken mind is a very delicate vessel, however still usable and beautiful but with extreme love and care, like Kintsugi

Trip doses of mushrooms have been known to jumpstart people out of depressive episodes. That said, there is no guarantee at all. I have had life benefits from single trips before, and I've experienced exhaustion and flaking from tripping too much.

The biggest concern I'd have in your place is habituation. You don't want a drug habit to top everything else off. I'll be honest, I'd probably decide for a single, big "reset" trip in a situation similar to yours. Take all my mushrooms in a single drop, to ensure I rather err on the "too much" side rather than feeling underwhelmed, and to ensure I have no more mushrooms on hand without serious work and patience. And I'd steer way clear of vaped DMT. That encourages / enables repetition too much in my opinion.

(Obligatory safety disclaimer: if you're on drugs right now, it might be a bad idea in general to trip. There are many known dangerous or detrimental interactions.)

I feel like psychedelics remove some of the barriers to suicidal thinking, i.e. you don't have the same 'distance' to thoughts and lack the unconscious tendency towards self-preservation. I feel like the choice to take my life is mine to make at any moment... but generally the refreshing perspective of psychedelics (which consistently circumvents self-hatred for me so far) prevents going deep into those thought patterns. Anyways, wanting to die (even without self-hatred) while feeling completely insane is not very stabilizing (to put it lightly).

Maybe it provides perspective though. I don't think there's any easy answer in desperate situations, but I certainly would not recommend repeatedly using psychedelics without major changes to your life (integration) in between sessions and a lot of care during (e.g. attention to set and setting). I certainly don't envy your situation, but maybe your rock bottom is even worse than what you've known. If you're quite unstable, tripping might be a poor choice.

Meditation is very useful, but doesn't provide instantaneous relief, and it requires a fair bit of practice.

I think null24 is right. Psychedelics have great therapeutic potential, but when you are psychologically unstable they can also have a very destructive impact on the soul.

I find it unbelievable that a psychiatrist basically refuses to treat you out of the fear of being liable in some way.

It does indicate though, that, as a professional, she judges you as an at the moment unstable person.

There must be other therapists out there, less afraid to do they are trained for.

It could be that, for whatever reason, that is not an option for you.

It would still be best to try to find some people willing to help you though. Even if it would just be some friends or family.

It is possible that you maybe would not want to burden them with your problems, or that the problems that have been plaguing you have also alienated you from them.

Still, it is probably not as unlikely as you might think it is, that there are people out there, who care for you and who are willing and able to help you if you let them.

I would love to have a chat with you at some point. If you are willing message me on here and we can figure out a medium.

Highly recommend FranLover's suggestion of a hobby or other activity to treat your depression, as well agree with the recommendation of caution using psychedelics. Psychedelics have been found for some to be a great treatment for depression when done the right way. La Alquimista recommends you do not trip alone and seek counsel from a trusted friend to observe your experience.

What you have brother is a battle within. Our thoughts are our traitors, there was a guy onnthe forum that said he was a healer and could heal people, he was banned not long after that. It is very easy to fix what you have but it is up to you. My whole life is like what you talk anout but now, it can be controlled or it controls. Very hard to explain. Meditation is key but at the start it is very hard to focus. What you have to remember is, what makes you suicidal is the same thing that controls your thoughts. Once you figure it out, you control him. At the start it feels nearly impossible but once you get farther, you will advance and it will become easier and easier. What you have to do is get rid of your ego, its that simple but that hard. Breathing in through your nose and out your mouth helps greatly when he comes on and tries to control you. Get rid of everything that is you and it will start to improve

Hey Swarra, thanks for sharing so heartfeltly. You may be depressed, but you certainly have got some good character traits.



Reading these things made me think of iboga. I am in no way suggesting it, especially since I have tried it and it is NOT what I needed at that moment (I don't think).

But I thought it was worth mentioning the plant. Have you heard of it?

Thank you all for your posts and concern. It’s a long road ahead of me but I’m taking It. Very good choice of literature FranLover and you all have very valid points. I am taking my time and I do have caution and respect but not a fear at all for psychedelics if that makes sense. (it’s so hard not to ramble) I have heard of Iboga and it’s something to be open to but there has never been an availability so far. I’m finding there’s still a lot of searching to be done in every sense of the word.
Thrasymachus I’m still new here I can’t pm yet but I would love to open a dialogue.

I am in the camp who agrees that psychedelics may not be the right tool to solve this particular problem, they CAN alevieate depressive symptoms for many people, but neurology is not uniform across all people. If psychedelics were going to cure my Aspergers, proneness to addiction, and motivation issues that would have happened a long time ago. Though like your cat, mine is starting to look at extracting and using DMT again after choosing to take a long time away from it, mostly as a hobby she is intending as ive become more interested in the science of extraction. My cat hasn't had a breakthrough yet, but her friends did and were very happy, which pleases my cat (both a means and an end in itself)

I saw you asking about meditation techniques for a mind that is not suggestible, are you possibly confusing meditation with self-hypnosis? If anything i know about meditation is correct, the goal (if it can be called that) is not to make your mind suggestible, but to unravel the suggestions we are constantly reinforcing and to experience just what mind is.
I can't really give much advice on meditation as im not a teacher, and i could end up giving you advice that ends up harming you, but i may be able to point you in a suitable direction if you PM me.

I really do know the buzz you are describing, and i wont insult your intelligence by sitting here saying its something that can be overcome, i never have. I have however, managed to stop judging myself for being unable to overcome something that i never clearly defined to myself. This mind you are suggesting is broken could be the best thing, the only thing that ever happens to you, it could even be you (or you it), try not to be so quick to judge a book by its cover. One time in school i had to read a book that i absolutely hated the cover and idea of it, i enjoyed it, the end.

Does anyone think yellow dmt is better for depression, due to nmt?? Does harmine make it better, for smoking?

Have you thought of taking up a new hobby which has spiritual benefits, like stargazing or astronomy?

I'm just going to start stargazing this week (I bought some binoculars to help), this week. But I feel like this hobby will have a spiritual and calming effect as it allows you to understand your place in the universe.

Hi Swarra.

I can relate to a lot of the things you're talking about and have been through some similar things myself.
First of, I'm not a therapist, I'm just having a friendly conversation with you, so take it for what you will.

My first thought was that schizophrenia and psychedelics are NOT a good combination. Like seriously not good. However- based on your prior use, I would tend to think that if you has some serious issues- you'd probably know about it after your heavy dosing. again that's not a professional opinion, just my semi-scientific guesstimate.

There's a real lack of decent mental health services in my area too, so I understand that feeling very well. is there any kind of phone or even Skype type service available to you? I know that's being used in a lot of places, so that would be something to look into.

I will share the professional advice I've received over the years from counselors and my MD.

First- I was told - point blank - that normally, you just kind of get over, or grow out of "depression". Also known as "getting off the pity-pot" Also sometimes known as "Rule #5 - Harden the F**k Up! Like is fucking rough, and it's even rougher if you're a guy. You gotta learn to deal with it.
You also have to sort of what I call, get outside of yourself... you're sitting on your pity pot saying whoa is me... when what would help break your 'stinking-thinking' is getting out and doing something..ANYTHING other than feeling sorry for yourself.
Seriously- go for a walk and get some fresh air. Go for a 30 minute walk around your neighborhood, or find a nice local park. Walks and hikes ALWAYS make me feel better and help clear my mind. You also should make sure your diet is decent- no fast food, sodas, sugar or other processed crappy food. Start taking better care of yourself- realize YOU can make positive changes in yourself and in your life. Everything you need is already inside you- no one is coming to save you - it's up to YOU.
Not of this is meant to be derogatory or talking down to you - this is just brutal honesty from lessons learned the hard way.
And it may sound cliched- but damn, 28 is still young!!! Life is still kind of confusing at that stage. Most people don't truly start getting their shit together until around 35 or so. that's when real adulthood starts to set in. You still have plenty of time.

As far as meds go - I have to admit that the Valium is a very useful tool for my anxiety issues. I have some cheap shitty insurance, but my valium and a lot of my meds are free at the wal mart pharmacy. You can call wal mart and ask what discount programs they have. They're happy to tell you about it. I think the local one is called "Single Care". No fee for the discount program membership!

I have also found mushrooms in light doses to be a very helpful tool. Not exactly microdosing, but under a 1 gram dose.

It sounds funny, and laugh all you want, but I swear, a light dose and watching the movie Fight Club was a HUUUGE relief for me awhile back. "You have to learn to let go"
LMAO and the scene with Raymond brought tears to my eyes-in a good way. Super powerful existential scene!!

I think you might also benefit from reading or listening to the audio book from psychologist Carl Yung titled "Modern man in Search of a Soul". Not religious or preachy at all, but it gives profound insight into how we think and perceive things. I think you'd like it.

I'm sorry if that was wordy and or rambling, but I was trying to share some lessons I've learned.


And if you don't mind me asking....what kind of music do you listen to? and what movies are some of your favs??

PK I just checked youtube and I think you might find some of these titles of use:
Mot sure if I can link them here.

Modern Man in Search of a Soul 1
Modern Man in Search of a Soul 2 (and there's also Part 3 of that same title.)

The Undiscovered Self, by Carl Jung (audiobook)

There are also videos on Alan Watts (another good author you should read), and Jordan Peterson commenting and explaining Yung.

Meditation can be very helpful as well. (You'll start to see an interconnection among these subjects)
In a nutshell, meditation is simply sitting still and learning to let your mind relax.
It's not complicated at all. Pick a quiet spot, sit still for 15 minutes and let your mind empty. You've "learned" to crave distractions, and you just need to unlearn it. That applies to everyone- not just you. modern life is filled with nothing BUT distractions most of the time, music, movies, facebook, smart phones etc. Just let it all go...

If you do find a need for a spiritual path to help you, you might want to check out this video:
"My Religion is Sanatana Dharma." You can skip all the 'Hindu" names and stuff and just listen to the underlying message. His "Dharma warrior" video is one of my favorites. He's actually a really cool guy in person.


Hope some of this helps you.

(and you helped me feel better today by sharing ideas and thoughts with you- so thank you for that!)

Do we have a namaste smiley??

For borderline/schizophrenia types of things, I strongly recommend against psychedelic use, even if past use has been relatively harmless or even beneficial. You know Terence McKenna? He didn't have any mental illnesses of that level of severity, but his brother Dennis McKenna reported that a single awful mushroom trip he had blew out his marriage and basically sent his life in a downward spiral (and also prompted him to stop using mushrooms, though this was not public knowledge during Terence's life). The point being: even if things seem great with psychedelics, even neurotypical people can get burnt badly. For people with powerful mental illnesses, it can be absolutely devastating.

I also recommend against many, though not all, forms of meditation. Meditation that involves chakras or out of body type experiences or visions actually exacerbate many psychotic symptoms.

My recommendation is as follows: plain old anapanasati - mindfulness of breathing meditation.

Instructions right here:
https://www.accesstoinsi...taka/mn/mn.118.than.html

Body awareness is central - complete body awareness, with special focus on the breathing, is the key. It is grounding and calming and clarifying. And I recommend a lot of it - if you want it to even begin to approximate the kind of dramatic shifts that psychedelics can bring, you'll need a heck of a lot more than a 30 minute sitting once or twice a day. In total, I'd shoot for a minimum of 3 hours a day, perhaps up to 6 hours. That doesn't have to all be in one sitting - but, an hour and a half when you wake up, an hour and a half before you go to sleep, more in between, however you want to splice it - do it a lot. It's a time investment.

What this meditation does, if you are consulting the Pali suttas of Buddhism (which are the oldest texts we have) is create progressively more unified states of awareness. All consciousness is fabricated in Buddhism - which is why it is dissatisfying, because we cannot really rely on it. The aim of meditation in the Pali suttas is to create ever more unified fabricated states until we find the "unfabricated", which is Nirvana. What the "unfabricated" is has been debated a lot in Buddhism's history. The general conclusion is you find out when you reach it. For your purposes, it is not really important.

For your purposes, you want calming, centering, and grounding. So, do mindfulness of breathing meditation, a lot.

Do not take psychedelics.

Do not do "astral projection" types of meditation.

Do not do visualization meditation.

Just simple breathing/body awareness meditation, for a minimum of 3 hours a day, every day.

It will take a long time to work. Keep at it. It's like churning milk into butter. If you'd never seen butter being made before, the idea that stirring milk really hard for a long time would make it solid would seem ridiculous, and the amount of time it would take to make it happen would be highly discouraging. You'd be tempted to give up. Keep. Doing. It. Milk turns into butter when you stir it with sufficient effort and proper technique. Anapanasati results in centered, calming, grounding unified awareness states if you do it with sufficient effort and proper technique. Do NOT take more psychedelics.

P.S. If you do this, take care of your body. Contrary to what many fools say, people's bodies are different, and sitting in meditative postures for long periods of time can hurt your back, your knees, etc. If stuff starts really hurting, don't push it. Take care of yourself.

P.P.S. I recommend strongly against all psychedelic use, but I especially strongly recommend against iboga. It's a pretty harrowing experience. It lasts for about 24 hours, it is neurotoxic in high doses (which are usually the doses clinics use to get people off opiates, they're called "flood doses" of about 1 gram of pure ibogaine), it can cause heart failure in those prone to it, and in combination with many different kinds of medication it will kill you, and it usually leaves its users feeling disoriented and hungover. Plus it is a stimulant, and stimulants are a no-no for anyone predisposed to schizophrenia - so that's a double-whammy, stimulant AND psychedelic. Definitely not good for schizophrenia-type symptoms. Iboga's great if you want to get off heroin! It's probably going to be the next big "medical psychedelic", but it's way rougher than all of the other natural serotonergic psychedelics, and if you're not hooked on opiates, I strongly advise avoiding it.

A broken mind is a misnomer. You're not broken, but describing yourself as such suggests you're identifying with that concept, perhaps too much. Typical of the depressive mood and all thoughts that shine through that lens.

Forget about psychedelics, and powerful pharmaceuticals. These are band-aids which do nothing to get at the root of the issue - you need to sit down with yourself in a quiet space, alone, and figure out why you identify with suicide and death so much. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess you've been hurt by someone in the past, but you need to wrangle with it and resolve it by just sitting with it dispassionately; the more you observe and sit with it, the more it will dissolve.

Pharmaceuticals just numb you or shift your mood. Psychedelics can potentially aggravate the situation by giving more energy towards the knot in your mind, making it stronger. If something is bothering you the real solution to sit with it in silence and dissolve it through attention. Make sleep, diet, exercise, and this meditation a priority.