Hey guys,

allow me to give you a first attempt of an experience report.

So, after weighing the different descriptions of TMB's potency I decided to go ahead and make all four segments that I had harvested into tea. I skipped blending and just sliced them up very thinly, then boiled for 4 hours and do a first pull, meticulously sqeezing them with metal equip so no tissue may absorb goodies.

After that, they seemed so drained that 2 hours of boiling yielded only clear water. But, for the sake of it, I put them into the pressure cooker at 180 PSI and then boiled for 2 more hours. This yielded more green goodies, after all.

Reduced all of this into 500ml of tea which I drank the next day... today. And shortly after tea from approx. 5 grams of Passionflower. Had only moderate nausea, which was kept at bay by suckling on fresh ginger for almost 2 hours. Without that, I would have purged rather early on. But with a constant supply of ginger root, it was not too difficult, actually. Still, back then I wondered - even though I had egregious amounts of cactus, I have never had serious nausea before.

I took notes up until the 2 hour mark. Then, I just read one of my notes "a voice in a british tone is talking to me." 2 hours in...

And it kept coming and coming and coming. After a while, when realizing that I was going way into uncharted territorry, I somewhat lost my cool and got worried... and then started the most challenging psychedelic experience of my life. Anxiety took over and squezzed me really damn hard for 12-odd hours.

I've done mushrooms many times, also in high doses. Acid and mesc a few times, but in moderate doses. I almost always have been able to change the direction of the trip when things were going in a weird or unsettling direction... not today. I was gripped my the most massive force of anxiety I have ever had. I have talked for the last 12 hours to my tripsitter (who happened to be there and who literally saved my not-so-young anymore butt) and realized that all these anxieties were things I had in my life.

And while he was there, it was all good, I was relieved. I thanked him 3-4 hours in and told him I'd probably fine by now. But as soon as I was on my own, I was pulled to a really threatening place. I've had a nervous breakdown many, many years ago (burnout in a tough sales job, no drugs involved). This has shown me that there is a certain point of pressure beyond which I cannot go without needing quite a long recovery period, and I felt a similar point was not all too far.

But then, with his help, things went better again. But I had to draw upon all that I have learned in many trips, and a decade-old, ambitious meditation practice to keep myself from losing my shit in a way that would have fucked me up really bad. It was just that I felt that I have been forced to directly experience all of this suppressed stuff, and frankly, I learned that I'm not able to do that all at once.

As a meditation practitioner, I am very familiar to notions (and practices) of complete surrender and just being in the experience. But this could not be done at this point. My intuition strongly told me that there is a reason why I've been working on these issues on step at a time, and that this was a situation where I was in danger of getting sucked into something truly harmful and dangerous. I do not know what would have happened, but I'M pretty sure I would have freaked out if I was on my own. Even with the sitter, it took me almost 12 hours of a concentrated effort to keep things together - every time I tried to let myself drift a bit, things turned weird just so fast.

So, for many hours, I've been pacing and talking about all the issues that are related to my anxiety - seems counterintuitive, but it helped. I am immensely grateful to my sitter, whom I had not asked to sit, and who actually had other appointments. Which I canceled, after I had to tell him that I was going to need him for quite a few more hours.

Now, more than 13 hours in, the effects are still going strong. It takes me a long time to write, I see patterns everywhere and everything's very warpy and distorted. Even though, now I'm able to produce constant discourse again, which was not the case 3 hours ago.
While it's far from being over, things are declining now, and a sense of normalcy is creeping it, altough still very fragile. This certainly lasts a long time.

All in all, in almost any way, I realize that I have being given the answers to questions I was too afraid to ask. For the first time in my life, I know how it feels to have a brutal anxiety attack. I also know just how much fear and anxiety I'm keeping at bay, and how unequipped I am to deal with too much of it at once. And I am truly humbled as to where my own limits are, and have been filled with a much renewed respect of the plant teachers.

I had my first mushrooms more than 20 years ago. Almost all of my trips have been in transcendent bliss, some very strong ones with very profound ego dissolution experiences. But they always had that feathery-light quality to them... there never was a lot of pain or struggle involved. This time, I was reminded of when I once almost died in a hospital, the intensity, directness and inevitability of the suffering was beyond all that I have experienced before.

It all in all has been a journey that will probably re-direct myself and force myself to re-invent myself in some ways. A few things have collapsed that were meant to go, and my enormous fear of them has kept me from doing so - until now.

It was, in the end, a good experience. I wanted to learn and work on my traumas, and not just have a good time being high. But I was very close to being overwhelmed, and needed serious support for this to be a constructive experience. I was just so lucky that the sitter was there, because I've relied heavily upon him for the last 13 hours, and to whom I owe my state of sanity at this point. I am infinitely grateful to you, my friend. It has been very exhausting for you, no doubt about that, and I can only trust in a bigger scheme of things to reward you for it, for I probably won't be able to... unless you'd care for some tea of four or so mature segments of not so torchy Bolivian torch-tea?


Seriously... it took me about 80 minutes or so to write this. Now I's been almost 14 hours, and the substance is still very, very present.

Safe journeys on the remainder of this trip Brewster. What you are describing sounds consistent with the kind of experience that occurs during a high dose bridgesii trip. But with standard bridgesii it has taken me 18 to 24 inches to go DEEP as you describe. To think that it only took 4 of the short form segments to do that to you is very impressive. It certainly seems to live up to its reputation for being extremely potent. Thanks for sharing this with us. Much love Brewster. Peace.

Every so often a cactus comes along and you end up ingesting two or three grams of mescaline in one hit. Then you really get a feel for what these plants can do.

Mescaline is lovely. But it can also have an endless intensity to it when things get strange. I’ve had a similar journey and wasn’t asleep until 48 hours later. But my physiology seems to really get wired from phens.

You will be stronger than an ox once you integrate everything

Be well x

brewster, I had a similar experience with Aya this summer-- it was one of the bleakest, most soul-hammering experiences I've ever had. I know it was a different set of plant teachers, but your description tells me we were in a similar place inside.
I did not have anyone with me, unfortunately-- so I suffered alone and completely disconnected from the past and future-- a terrifying and endless NOW that brutalized me with the realization that I was alone with myself (in an ultimate, desolate kind of alone) and found the company sorely wanting. I faced ugly realizations that I was unmoored in my life because of a lack of commitment-- a lack of direction and drive-- I was lost, and my punishment was being forced to live in the NOW with the silent volume turned up to 11.

Like you, it was very difficult to make it through this, and I'm happy for you that you have someone that you could share this painful time with-- perhaps that was the most important lesson about persevering through life's difficult times-- it can be done with friends next to one.

Peace be with you brother--- thank you for being here to share this with us.

Drugs have shown me, that it is not important how you feel or what happens inside, but what you bring back to our world. This is why anything except plant teachers is on my black list now. I am convinced any euphoria has to be ballanced out and thankfully plant teachers can do that within the experience rather than within real life, unlike other drugs that allow living on credit.

If there is a need for ballancing within our lives, we can experience the negative journey. But regardless how bad this experience can be, the main reason why it has happened can be recognized when we return back.

Great trip report, and please add to it when you've done some more integration. Sounds like you had (at least) an order of magnitude heavier experience than any of my mescaline rides. The only time I've been worried on cactus was once when I brewed up some Terscheckii and was so over-stimulated it had me pacing the floors and peeping out windows for hours like a meth head. These days my usual test for Bridgesii is to brew up about 400 grams fresh cactus.

Questions:

How much fresh cactus material do you think you started with, by weight?

Was it the short or long variation TBM?


Glad you were able to ride it out and find the value in the experience, even before fully coming down.

P.S. - I see the answers to my questions are in your other thread.

Thank you all for your great replies. Made me really happy to get such feedback.


Thank you! When I wrote it, I had one more difficult wave coming up. Then, after pretty exactly 16 hours, things calmed down considerably and I started feeling more and more normal. This was a long one!



As tough as the experience was, after 16 hours, I got dizzy and suddenly was able to sleep - did not expect that at all, was a relief, Slept 5 hours and woke up feeling really quite good. Exhausted, sure, and the sense of dread crept up upon me a few more times. But all in all, I already feel good, no real hangover and a great sense of relief. This was a very cathartic experience, after all. I'll share some more thoughts in a short while, but I'm relaxed and happy and enjoying some afterglow.



Man, that must have been tough. I was so infinitely glad that the other guy was there and really helped me well through almost 14 hours. How did you come out of your experience? How long did all of it take you until you were re-balanced?



Yeah, me too. A while ago, I had true 100mcs of good acid, and yesterday was much, much stronger.


One more interesting thing: The body load actually was much less than anything I ever had. I almost always had strong headaches from mesc on the come down. This time - nothing. Vasoconstriction was also very manageable, and I do not have a hangover of any kind. Maybe its because of the high potency of the material, so that I didn't ingest as much other alkaloids? Or maybe the Passionflower smoothed it out? Who knows...

All in all I'm feeling very positive about the whole thing. It was certainly not what I wanted or expected, but probably what I needed. Taught me a lot, this dimension of psychedelics I had rarely ever experienced.
Funny, I just read the following on Julian Vayne's Blog.



That's pretty spot on. I had many experiences with the most intense feelings of bliss and awe. Yesterday, I got an intensely powerful experience of blistering dread. I have quite a few techniques to manage anxiety and stress, and none of them worked.. at all. There was no avoiding it, but with the other guy I was stabilized so that I wasn't caught up in the thought loops that really pressured me when I was alone.
In the end,this experience of the spectrum is just as valuable as the other thing, I guess. Just way more demanding, and damn, did I need that sitter .

Take care, all of you. See you soon.

Allright Six weeks down the line, I think it's a good time to look back a bit. All in all, I'm doing fine, and this experience has kickstarted some developments that might have taken a long time to ever get to those, had I not been forced into it.

Two weeks after the experience, I was suddenly back in the place where I was when the trip was at its most difficult. Realities collapsing into each other, depersonalisation, a tremendous sensation of intense fear and mortal danger. I had not consumed anything, smoked no pot, nothing. This scared me quite a bit, and I wondered if I had taken some real damage. It lasted for about half an hour, then things returned to normal.
I was worried, because the next day, I had a meditation retreat going, and these can be quite intense on their own. And, in fact, during the retreat, I was in the same spot several times. But the serene atmosphere and the presence of an experienced teacher to whom I have great confidence reassured me, and I was able to ease into it.

Since then, this has happened again, but it's less bad now. It's very difficult to tell how much of this has actually been caused by the trip. I do see in many situations how this fear was always present, it was just completely invisible to me. Many situations unfold like they did before, but now I see that fear of dying and losing myself being at the foundation of my experience. I indeed do believe that this is some kind of darknight experience that has been triggered, although a very mild form in comparison.

But there have been many good effects: My meditation practice has been invigorated. The world is a more terrible place now, but it also is more beautiful, with depth and meaning in every moment. I feel like I now experience the fragility and improbability of our existence and am taking much less for granted. My functioning in everyday life is not impaired.

I'm somewhat apprehensive though, since this was really dramatic at it's height, and it is not implausible that this might return when I further progress in Insight meditation. Dark Night experiences can be very serious, and since I'm an ambitious meditator, it is not unlikely that I might hit that spot again, since it appeared once. And also there is the question of how to relate to psychedelics in the future. For now, they're off the agenda, but the thought of this will always be present.

I'm still very grateful for the experience. I believe that it has helped me become a more mature and serious person, someone who appreciates his life more than before and has been coerced into acknowledging the scary and terrible sides of existence, too. In everyday life, I'm more happy than before, and more grateful for my life.

Thanks so much for writing this update! The cactus is still working in you. It will be a part of you forever now.

The work you are doing and insights you are making, this is very good. This is what is supposed to happen. You have been given an opportunity to realign your mind and your life to this fuller, more accurate, more scary and beautiful understanding of reality that was granted to you by the cactus. In a way, you died. And you were reborn. This is a new life. A second chance, to see it all differently now, in a truer, more honest way. Make the most of this opportunity. And be patient with yourself. And stay safe.

Thanks for your original write-up, and especially for the follow-up.
Good stuff.
And without demeaning the rest of your writing, this part rings a very loud bell for me:

If you take a moderate amount of mescaline/cactus, the experience is often very warm, friendly and blissfull. So many people who have done this, tend to believe that you can't realy have bad trips on mescaline.

I used to be one of those people too.
But then i had my butt kicked by the stuff.

It took me almost two years before i found the courage to take a psychedelic substance again.

Thank all of you for your replies.


Grey Fox: Beautifully written! This is very true indeed. It's been a rough ride, but also a very rewarding one. I see that there are two main components to the experience:
One is the experience of the everyday anxieties I've had all along - now they have become visible.

The other is the experience of this intense boundlessness/emptiness, which is as beautiful as it is shocking. I'm immensely grateful to have experienced this - it gave everything more meaning as I'm getting used to it and am integrating it. But man - this really takes a systematic time and effort to engage with it, it's some real work! Worth every second though.


Sunnyside: I'm glad this speaks to you. Have you experienced something similar?


dragonrider: You took the words right out of my keyboard I had two of these moderate experiences, they were very relaxed and never threatening in any way. Such a one was planned six weeks ago, but since I was uncareful with the dosage, I got the other end of the spectrum Probably was for the better - I mean, I'm not doing this for fun only, I want to do some developmental work, too. I knew, but didn't want to acknowledge how painful this can be.

Did you write a report on your experience somewhere? I'd love to read it.

That intense boundlessness/emptiness that you speak of, I believe that this is the core essence of deep psychedelic journeying. At the peak power of a strong psychedelic trip it feels like you die, but you are powerless to do anything about it except to keep existing in the moment, no longer really "you" anymore. You become existence itself. You observe and therefore you are, but everything else gets stripped away and is gone.

So what do you do with all that back here in normal reality? Everyone finds their own way.

I have observed that it is human nature to lean on theology and philosophy to find meaning and interpretation to it all. But none of that can ever explain or quantify the death that you experience at the peak of a heavy trip. It just is what it is. We starve for explanation and meaning. But it just is what it is, as unsettling and shocking and confusing as that is. And thats ok. Because ultimately we are all part of nature and the cycle of life on Earth, and this experience of life is a precious gift.

So whatever you do, I encourage you to accept whatever was revealed to you in that time. And remember it and hold onto those lessons. And hold onto the awe of how shocking it was. Because thats important too. And always be patient and kind to yourself. Much love.

Thank you Grey Fox, for another thoughtful and helpful response! Yeah, I'm still wondering why this time was so different and difficult. I assume it is due to resistance that wasn't present in earlier years, when I just didn't worry about much.

Also agree 100% with what you say about how impossible it is to put this experience in definite terms. I'd say, it is "simply" a mystical experience - you can use any kind of framework to interpret and explain it. Be it a religious one, a secular one, a scientific, psychological, philosophical one... whatever works best for you.

I sympathise much with Buddhism's view on the intellect as merely another sense faculty. This doesn't mean intellect isn't important, eyes are important! But in my opinion, this way of looking at it puts the intellect in a more healthy context than European Enlightenment's "cogito ergo sum". Because if intellect is merely another sense, it is obvious that it has it's limits.

Thanks for asking! Allow me to answer over here. Short version: I'm doing fine, even though the aftereffects are still very much present at times. But I manage now, and am grateful for the experience.

Medium length version: Still very much in the integration process. Especially the experience of intense fear has resurfaced a couple more times during intense meditation and also during everyday life. While it is still INTENSE, it is now well under control. I got into a routine of working with it constructively, and this text is what I found most helpful:

https://tricycle.org/magazine/inviting-fear/

Basically, one starts with concentration meditation (breath here) to center oneself, then invites the fear. When it appears, one makes a serious effort to disengage from the thoughts and stories, and focusses on the bodily sensations. (Watching the thoughts is also possible, but VERY difficult not to get pulled in again). After a while, one "disinvites" the fear and returns to equilibrium.

Sounds easy, it isn't. If that interests you, Tara Brach's RAIN framework uses a similar process, but it is much, much more elaborate. All resources to work with RAIN are available on her homepage free of charge.

This will be much easier when one has a meditation practice established, since many of the techniques are already familiar. This has allowed me to work with the panic attacks constructively, and while they are still very unsettling, now I can watch them from a certain distance without getting pulled in completely.

Sounds bad? It's tough, but very rewarding. While I rarely ever experienced fear in such a degree, it has been present in my life in a smaller amount in so many regards. I never saw that - now I do, and these things that made me anxious before really don't push me off balance anymore.

Like with lifting weights, the threshold has been increased, and I start going through the steps of the process almost automatically now when high-intensity emotions arise. I have no idea when I will take psychedelics again, because I have my hands full sober now. It will stay like this for quite a while, I'm sure, and even the idea of ingesting a hallucinogen makes me nervous. It might be many years before I'm really comfortable to journey again. (Excluding cannabis - that has been fine, even though it also has triggered some fearful experiences, another thing I hadn't experienced before this bad boy of a trip.)

So I think I'm ready to draw a preliminary conclusion. You know, I always saw me as an adventurer. I didn't take the cactus to have a good time, not even only to heal, but also to see what's out there and to refresh my view of the world. I wanted to reconnect with the grandiose, immense conundrum that is life and consciousness.
While the experience was much, much rougher than expected, it did exactly that. All things considered, this has reinvigorated my quality of life and my appreciation of all the ten thousand things. It also has taught me respect of what's beyond the horizon and shown me the fragility of my own system and how badly my rigid ways of handling some things were working, inspiring me to grow by yanking me out of my comfort zone for good.

So it was risky, challenging and immensely painful, but in the end, I am deeply grateful for the invaluable lessons I have learned.

Ok. I'm really glad you are OK I sort of like you and am glad you are healthy and can stick around hehe. Since you capatilize INTENSE, I guess I understand how intense it can be for you when those feelings come. Coincidentally I had one of those at 3am this morning after I woke up and ate !

It caught me totally off guard. I wondered if it was some form of cannabis withdrawal, since I last smoked four days ago, but later I remembered about the cactus and remembered what you said about it returning "a month later." Also, em, I thought "maybe I feel this bad because something is happening to my mom." And guess what, that night I texted my mom and she said she felt reaaally bad from the quimo 😕 which is a rare ocurence. So yeah, life is very strange...

I was feeling disasocciated and very weird, it was not pleasant, but I learned several songs on the guitar--later I went to the middle of the woods and meditated and that totally cured me. Meditation literally grants superpowers (siddhis, attainments.) It can save the world. It can change you compeletley. Its the most powerful thing imaginable. You literally get high in a matter of seconds of deep, pure meditation, intoxicated by each deep breath, by each emptying of the mind.

You understand why they call it Enlightment--you actually see the light! It brigthens up and things happen. And when you open your eyes you look at the trees and vines and smell the freshness and the whole thing is titalating, its so alive, its so bright, so fresh--the mind infinitley calm.

In the drive back you always drive waay better, music sounds way better, its like, the best way to live is meditating each day, everything you do will be better. In the drive back the mind is totally empty, the breath is totally perfect. Even now as I write, my mind is sort of empty, not holding on to any thoughts, not desiring anything. Its better than psychedelics. Its like any other thing, the more years you do it, the better you become at it, the more rewarding it is.

Thats why anyone and everyone who wants true happiness should start as soon as possible. This is the path to TRUE happiness. Imagine being able to relive the feeling of the best moments of your childhood; that is meditation. Its like winning the lottery. Its the very definiton of purification. Meditation is the way to be pure, literally a saint (I mean, if you are a pure, wholesome person already)

Anyway, for me my bad cactus trip was the best thing that could have happened too. I finally quit tobacco for good, completley, I stomped out craving out of my life. I dont smoke weed now either, I rather be clear headed (although I have used it for sleep or for listening to meditations (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmPIo7dJQmc this bodhisatva has the best readings I have ever heard. Her voice is PERFECT, the spacing in between her words is fantastic, the content great, the amount of content very good--I hope you find this useful!)

but yeah, I dont depend on weed anymore and am like a normal, happy, very sober person (after years of tobacco addiction.) And my meditation practice...woof, its gone to the roof. Basically my whole life has improved tenfold. I deal with my emotions so well now, my life is going up and up ! It was exactly what I need to happen to get out of the rut I stuck in.

I don't know if I'll ever take psychedelics again either, I tremble with the thought as well. Cannabis is such a good psychedelic too, so why up the ante?

Anyway, love you, take care

Good to hear that you're doing well brewster. I really like how thoughtful your description is of what has happened in your life. I think that your openess and clarity will help other people who read this thread. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

Thanks both of you for the kind replies!

Franlover: Very interesting read indeed. Makes me happy that what I write seems to resonate with you. Now, four more weeks have passed, and I think, maybe the trip won't be returning again - there were no more "flashbacks". (Uncertain if it's the right word - the emotions and sensations of the trip had returned, but not the psychedelic effects per se, which is what most people will imagine when hearing about a flashback).
I have to admit that I'm feeling the temptation to go on another journey already . Won't do it anytime soon, but now, I'm more inclined towards doing it again. But should I decide to, then I definitely will have a good sitter nearby.

For me, too, meditation is the main way, and while it can go very well with psychedelics, the meditation practice is the most important element.

My position towards this trip is very ambivalent: on the one hand, yes. I did learn a lot about myself, I have been shown some weaknesses and troubles in my psychological makeup which I hadn't seen or accepted before. So this definitely helped me in my development.
On the other hand, it has also scarred me, and, more importantly, it could have gone badly. Had I not had a sitter and been admitted to the ER, this would possibly have been a traumatic experience. I was careless and with sheer luck, things went not so bad. Entirely my fault - had I done my homework, then it would have been fine.

I believe that I could have learned most of the same lessons without such a risk and without so much pain. With better planning, choosing a better point in time, testing the substance so I knew how potent it would be and preparing good set and setting, many things would have been much easier.

So this is my bottom line: Yes, painful trips can be very important and rewarding in the long run. But do your homework, prepare yourself, your surroundings and your sitter, then the trip will be more enjoyable and more constructive.

(Of course, all of this only goes so far. Sometimes, one has to accept life's randomness. It's a road to unhappiness to assume that one can control everything. That's true for life and for psychedelic journeys. But one can indeed try and do the best that is possible.)

My very best wishes to all of you!

Brewster if you ever decide to trip on San Pedro again maybe consider going at a lower dose and using a different species than Bridgesii. A more moderate dose of T. pachanoi tends to be a much more enjoyable and managable experience, compared to what you went through with that TBM.

Are there psychedelic differences between Bridgessi Monstrose and Bridgessi? Does anyone have an experience with both?