um burnt, there ARE harmalas in caapi spagyrics...
they are VERY effective. I know caapi well, I work with it daily. It's effects are undeniable on my body and mind.
relax man, try some yourself. they are some of my favorite medicines.


I can't wait to try jorgyrics!

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."

—Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

I really like that quote phlux!

My problem is not so much if their stuff works. I am sure some of their products do something. My problem is the way they advertise and market their products without taking into consideration the real issues going around in the herbal drug industry. They'd rather advertise mystical magical nonsense then the reality of what their products are. They advertise alchemical techniques as some kind of improvement on medicine when clearly its not.

Maybe I am overreacting but I wouldn't give people who have this attitude a cent. Perhaps this is because I am biased and work in the real industry who is trying to make real drugs to make a real difference not just take gullable peoples money. Anyway you guys can continue to support half ass companies who have no problem manipulating people go ahead. I won't. I'd rather support people who are doing things right.

Just found this thread.

I am a practicing Spagyric Alchemist, using both Herbs and Minerals, and have been trained by The Paracelsus College here in Australia - which is the authentic legacy of Frater Albertus (Dr. Albert Riedel).

I would be interested in having a dialogue with anyone who is interested in Spagyric Plant Alchemy and how it can be applied to work with Psychoactive Plants, including those with Spice-content, and anyone with any questions about the philosophy and substance of Spagyrics in general.

Apart from Burnt, of course, who positioned himself as a unwavering skeptic and has lost the integrity of someone worthy of having a discussion with.

This was 2 years ago so I can either start a new thread, or continue in this one. Up to 'you'.

Burnt is no longer around here much. Regardless, he's been a member in good standing for nearly four years, and has contributed a great deal of valuable content and information to the site. You've been here for all of 10 days and are throwing your weight around. Cease and desist or take your alchemical magick somewheres else.

Ah, sorry, I meant no disrespect - I merely meant he'd lost integrity in this particular discussion, is all, due to his baseless and unconstructive skepticism (including cheaply bad-mouthing Paracelsus, who undoubtedly possessed one of the most incredible minds in the history of European herbalism, alchemy and early chemistry). I've no doubt that Burnt might have contributed a great deal as you say, just that the tone of his arguments were ridiculous and I was referring to them specifically and not either to himself as a person or to the integrity of the expertise he might have. Sorry about that, I can delete it if you like, didn't mean to come off supercilious.

Alchemy is a different world from 'magick' altogether.

Care to elaborate instead of just making statements? Otherwise, how are those of us 'not in the know' going to learn? Also, if you want to call out Burnt on his "baseless and unconstructive skepticism" then why not provide a counter argument or elucidation? Otherwise, yours is just baseless and unconstructive criticism.

While of course i agree we should keep it constructive and respectful, i have to ask, did you guys even read burnt's second to last post on the second page? Many reported it was very effective, and burnt basically called it all bullshit and said they were delusional..i think it was that which sparked robertus's response

No, I actually hadn't read this thread. But we should, instead of attacking credentials, explain why we agree/disagree instead of just agreeing or disagreeing.


Robertus-spagyricus brought this thread back into public light, so, bears some responsibility to show why he's questioning a member's integrity.

....and just for the sake of a balanced control group (and not to insite any ire) i have to remind the panel that i have tried several of the al-qemi spagyrics with no effect other than a little alcohol buzz when in deperation i glugged down about 1/4 bottle. the suggest dose was 8-10 drops and i had about 800-1000.

i am ridiculously sensitive to all medicines (except, apparently, spagyrics). i break through on 20mg of spice, 2gr cubensis, etc. i am DEFINITELY affected by homeopathic remedies in their subtle ways. but the claims made on the al-qemi website and the subsequent lambasting of myself and all the rest of my 'thick-skulled, druggie morons' to quote the charming woman who runs (ran?) the site....well....let's just say i'm watching this thread with a lot of interest.

i WANT to believe it works. i'm all for any kind of extract of my beloved plant teachers that only require a half dozen little drops under my tongue. but aside for the handful of people (that i DO respect the opinions of), i have spoken with several folks who had my experience of....well....nuffin.

my beef was not really with wether or not the stuff worked (as advertised)., but more the way in which it was advertised and the disrespect that was meted out to one who humbly inquired into it's efficacy.

i hope it all works out for this potentially wonderful means of imbibing our beautiful plants...

with the deepest love and gratitude

"the claims made on the al-qemi website and the subsequent lambasting of myself and all the rest of my 'thick-skulled, druggie morons"

lol I remember that!

i'm sorry to hear you got ripped off ant :[

i know virtually nothing about the product or seller and i wasn't trying to take sides, just merely point out the other point of view of why robertus said what he did since, its an old thread afterall

We should lab test a caapi spagyric! Anybody have one?

Burnt was never one of the more diplomatic characters here (unlike myself), but he certainly knows his science. Don't sweat it, robertus-spagyricus. Dialogue away.

And just for the memories, here's a link to that long lost thread with the al-qemi skeevotz:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=3787

Firstly, I'll apologize once again, at the time I thought the thrust of what I said regarding Burnt was quite accurate - as universecannon points out, Burnt was being irrationally dismissive - telling everybody they were full of shit because of the science and his own subjective opinion. Doesn't matter and isn't relevant anymore.

But yes, it's pointless to have made such an accusation unless I've explained myself, which I was planning on doing.

As for having a dialogue about Spagyric practice and it's use with entheogens - I'm going to have to read the other thread Uncle Knucles has posted. So, just give me a second.

And to answer A1pha - in short, and simplified somewhat, 'Magick' is the science and art of using one's will power to control the forces of nature in order to change one's nervous system. Alchemy is almost the exact opposite - Alchemy is the art and science of growing an ever-increasing sensitivity and receptivity to nature in order to allow one's nervous system to be changed. Once again, this is incredibly simplified, but nonetheless, in the perilous terrains of the unknown, a good outline and starting point. I can expand further if you're interested.

Finally, for now until I read the thread, I haven't myself experimented with making spagyric tinctures or magisteries from any psychoactive plants. I wanted to first see if anyone here has, if anyone had a Alchemical background, share my knowledge and experience about it, and see how the entheogenic path contrasts or compliments the spagyric alchemical path.

You seem to have a very narrow definition of the word 'materialism'. Entheogens are molecules, for instance.

Hmm, I didn't start this to get into this line of discussion. Not entirely relevant now.

Ok, well I just read through that thread. Interesting,

It gave me more of an understanding of people's interests on here and where Spagyrics might intersect with the Entheogenic path.

Firstly I'll just say - that woman is/was a dick - coming on here and making judgements and being concerned about selling her product in an arrogant fashion. Personally as a spagyric alchemist I'm very suss on peeps who wanna sling their wares, I mean jeez. More relevantly though, she didn't really do ANYTHING to explore, explain or clarify (as in to share information, utilitarian-like) the ontology and rationale behind Alchemy and spagyric medicines and how it might relate or be complimented by that of the entheogenic. In the end her expertise meant nothing - she went on for a while but provided zilch, apart from a gem here and there in amongst the dross. This is the opposite of what I wanted to do here (and guess what - I aint selling anything!)

It raises a series of questions, but I guess the reason why I initially expressed (perhaps unsuitably) that skeptical materialist/scientific turseness wouldn't really have a place in this sort of discussion, was because the reasoning behind Alchemy and it's practice of spagyrics is quite metaphysical. It 100% includes all of the relevant scientific knowledge, and indeed scrutiny, but also extends it's rationale to realms further than modern chemistry 'has room for'. This is because it deals with the 'life force' of each plant, mineral and animal.

That might not be welcomed here - I presumed it wouldn't have been by Burnt - so it's really up to y'all if you're interested. I accept that you may not be. I'll explain further once I hear some response.

One last thing - yes, polytrip, an Entheogen is a molecule. But tell me, is the 'Theo' part of 'Entheogen' a molecule? Or indeed, is it 'matter'? This sort of philosophical discourse isn't really what I wanted to get into, and I have no interest in discussing or arguing such things as everyone is entitled to their opinion which is no business of mine.

I would be interested (or curious, at least) to know more about what you consider to be plants' lifeforce, how it all works and the relation between alchemy and herbalism.

Maybe you could start your own thread in the Through the Looking Glass section, wich is reserved for that kind of subject.