Depression is unfortunately a very common mental health issue that is becoming more and more pervasive, specially in modern society. It's almost crazy NOT to be at least slightly depressed for a while considering how humans have steered into a selfish self-destructive path, how people struggle just to get by, and with the lack of a socially-established communal path to well-being.

Some of us may have gone through depression, or even be suffering from depression right now. If not us, then some of our loved ones probably has gone through or is going through it.

Can we pool up our knowledge and experience on the subject and collect the best tips and tricks, strategies and tools to deal with this problem?

If you have gone through depression, what has helped you overcome it?

The answer will likely not be simple, there are no magic cures, we know from research that some psychedelics could potentially help, but we also know that the context and other factors need to be taken into account for long lasting changes..

This thread is not to be taken as a stand-alone medical advice, consulting a good doctor is always ideal... In any case some ideas here might help adding to treatments available. So in your experience, how can we help people who are depressed?

IME one of the solutions would be to directly address the underlying cause of depression through natural means, which in itself is highly specific for the individual. E.g. For me personally it was working up the courage to move far away from my childhood home, where my earliest memories in life was watching my mother getting violently raped and beaten via heavy tools from a man whom was supposedly meant to be my father. This was also the environment where I'd go school depressed and mute wondering if one day this man plagued by alcoholism would kill my mother, in which kids from nicer backgrounds would take full advantage of my situation via bulling in order to make themselves feel stronger and better than they already were.

Things like this went on for the better half of my life, after which I tried addressing this problem via the drug route. To make a long story short, yes they helped mentally in terms of mood, motivation, etc... However after the effects of whichever compound wore off I was still in the same environment that caused this depressive mind state in the first place. Nothing changed and it certainly wasn't a serotonin related issue like "medical experts" often like to suggest over prescribing SSRI's. Anyway it was after obtaining an offer for a petroleum engineering course at university I was given my first chance to move away from this environment. Needless to say my depression was virtually non-existent, a few more things that also improved massively were my grades, physical health and well-being and I also stopped using drugs as a way to cope with mental health issues. These days I just use them sparingly for fun, the good kinds is well: DMT, 4-HO-DMT, THC, coca leaf, natural gifts of nature I like to call them.

Another thing I'd like to add is education, know the cause, treatments, etc... of the mental illness. One good website I'd like to recommend is the national center for biotechnology information (NCBI). Also one more thing I didn't mention when talking about drug use is stay the hell away from the dark sided ones, e.g. alcohol, amphetamines (inc MDMA), opiates, etc... They'll often leave you feeling worse than you started, again just speaking from personal experience.

This post is going on a little longer than anticipated so I'd like to quickly summarize. If you're depressed, one of the things you should take away from my story is to address the problem directly and only use exogenous agents as a last line remedy, like if you feel you're a danger towards your own health. E.g. At times were I felt suicidal I'd often use coca (SNDRI) and cannabis to help provide an instantaneous mental relief before I went on and did something stupid. Best of wishes, KT.

"Man is his own star; and the soul that can Render an honest and a perfect man, Commands all light, all influence, all fate; Nothing to him falls early or too late. Our acts our angels are, or good or ill, Our fatal shadows that walk by us still." —Epilogue to Beaumont and Fletcher's Honest Man's Fortune.


Depression is confusion. Confusion is chaos. The dictionary definition of Chaos is a condition or place of great disorder or confusion. So how does one solve disorder and confusion?

By being orderly and certain.

To be orderly will be the cause of human effort. The house can not clean itself. Who will clean your house for you? And so, one asks, can the mind be clean? Can the mind be a blank slate, a state of emptinesss, of enormous space, so that in that space the mind can unfold its true nature? Is it not crammed most of the time? The mind needs space to move in.

As for certainty, this will come about by observing what actually is. What 'actually is' is the facts. We can't quarell over facts because they are plain to both our sights. So, focusing on the facts of our condition, we must liberate ourselves. The fact is we are function. The mind that awakens in the morning is a result of function. In order to function we have the processes of thought, memory, reactions, pull towards pleassure and aversion to pain, etc. Without these functions we would be unable to drive to work as we need to remember the routes and all that.

So, does one see how chaos and disorder come about by the functions of the mind, mostly the thought processes, whitch rationalizes and plots?

The mind thinks "I Want To Be Happy," but the desire for happines is just another function of the brain and a direct process of thought. Our thought is conditioned, limited. Depression comes about because one is using a tool (thought) to solve depression when in fact thought and the functions of the brain are what brought about depression.

So the solution is to rely on the other part of what we are. It cant be the conditioned brain with its conditioned thoughts and memories and habits--those are precisley our problem.

So, is there a part of our Being which lies outiside of the functions of the brain that we have as animals?

What is it? Consciousness, awareness, soul, attention...there are many words we can throw but the word is not the thing. What we are talking about is actually, as a fact; the present moment. Because in the present moment there is no functions of the brain going on. Try it out sometime. For example, in the seconds before a car crashes into one all that the mind is preocupied with is the present moment. Time ceases to exist. The mind is in a state of pure attention. Wherever attention is directed at, the mind becomes that thing.

The mind is a very interesting thing and to understand what attention is is of great importance. To understand what Love is and the Unknown is is of upmost importance because all our lives we have lived in the known, in conditioned thoughts and actions and responses...so if one is to gain clarity it must be approaching the unknown. To go towards that is the step out of conditioning. To break the conditioning set in place is to become free. Freedom grants the space to observe the truth. The truth will liberate.

Obviously depression has a myriad of potential causes, though whether it can be induced purely through the chemistry of the brain prior to external impressions/perceptions I'm not certain. The whole 'chemical imbalance' seems like a very convenient excuse to market powerful pharmaceutical products to people, but that's just my opinion.

Personally I think depression is a natural response to external circumstances, and not a pathology to be cured. An intellectual-emotional confusion of the individuals psyche that produces subsequent physiological changes, much like a muscle-knot that forms in the muscle due to poor posture and which causes continuing discomfort until it receives direct focus of applied force to undo it. You can undo the muscle-knot by knowing how to put the focus of force on it, but if you don't correct what caused it in the first place it will simply form again. I think depression is very similar in that it causes immediate discomfort and even debilitation if left to fester, but basically it is the body-mind's way of trying to alert the inhabitant of the body-mind that something requires focused attention.. depression is the starting point for real thinking/contemplation and the movement towards health.

I think an awful lot of cases the sufferer gets too caught up in the physiological symptoms and can't gain the foothold necessary to turn the attention inwards and find that motivation/solution. Completely understandable. They also indulge in it, much like the smoker trying to quit buys into the whole "it's oh so difficult".. when really what we should be saying is, "you are not broken, you are not 'ill', you have the power to resolve this on your own" whilst also offering support (if they will accept).

As for solutions, I think one word sums it up. Conviction. You have to find your own conviction and fight your way forward, whether internally and/or externally. Sometimes you may have to accept circumstances and win the fight by surrendering concepts or needs that are no longer solvable in your particular situation.

In an ideal world better family and community would go a long, long way to alleviating depression. If someone falls down a group helps them back on their feet again. In the modern world we just do not fulfil that role sufficiently any more in my opinion.

To build discipline and mental stamina is probably one of the best defences against depression. And spent time with people you care about.

But that is all prevention.

A healthy brain needs:

Physical exercise.
Social interaction.
Nutrition.
Sleep.
Some kind of intellectual challenge every now and then.

These are all serious needs. A lack of any of these elements will do you in.

Just wanna throw out an applicable book recommendation.

Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression - and the Unexpected Solutions

This is the same fellow who wrote that excellent book on the drug war "Chasing the Scream". He tackles this topic with the same high level investigative journalism approach and gives a very thorough and well balanced overview of the research and supporting anecdotes in a format that is easy and enjoyable to read.

If you're not sure whether you want to dedicate the time to sit and read the book, he was on JRE to promote it and gave a good overview there.

Joe Rogan Experience #1250 - Johann Hari

* Social interaction. Different people may need different frequency of it, but even introverts need some.

* Having something meaningful to do / a purpose / a vision. When one doesn't know what one lives for, how can one not be depressed?

I’ve been depressive my whole life. I got married young as a way to escape from a super toxic family environment which included a schizophrenic sister and disturbed parents who would call me a “curse”, treat me as one, and kicked me out of the house in many occasions for no good reason. After I got married things didn’t get any better, since my husband was a sexist, drunk Christian who made me quit my dreams and projects and he wouldn’t care of how that would affect me. I was always underappreciated and disrespected. I got divorced after 5 years and I ended up not knowing who I was anymore. External factors definitely played an important role in my depression and stepping away from some of those circumstances was, without a doubt, the best thing I could do to start my rehabilitation, but there was still a process I needed to go through in order to feel like I could breathe again.

Here are the 7 steps I followed which led me to live a fulfilling, peaceful life and even though my life was still not perfect (specially economically speaking), I still felt like I wouldn’t change anything in it. I still cried sometimes, but only out of happiness… and that was an amazing feeling.

1. Be grateful: Every morning when I woke up and just before going to sleep I would list at least 7 things I felt grateful for. My cats were always in that list.
2. Have goals: Also at the beginning of each day I would make a list of 7 things I wanted to do. When depression’s really bad, they can start being “wash my teeth” or “cook for myself” and as you start feeling better, you can write down goals for a longer term and daily goals become something like “look for a scholarship” or “write a chapter for my book”.
3. Take care of your body: Eat well and exercise at least 3 times a week.
4. Be aware of your thoughts: If I found a negative thought wandering around my mind I would try to turn it into a positive thing. For example: “My parents don’t call me if I don’t call them, so they must hate me”. First of all: Ok, they haven’t called YET, that’s true, but that second part is a conclusion I’m getting to and I shouldn’t take it for granted. Better not to think about this. Or I would turn “I’m not good enough” to “Of course I am! I am an intelligent, capable person and if I’m still not where I would like to be, then I need to do something about it”. Or if a bad thought came to my mind, I would simply try to sweep it away and start thinking about something else.
5. Take a moment to meditate: Preferably twice a day. I would use some of the guided meditations on YouTube or just take a moment to breathe. It would be even better if I did so somewhere nice or surrounded by nature.
6. Be empathetic: Look at the people who surround you. If I saw someone in need and there was something I could do for him or her, I would do it. If not, I would ask the universe to help them and I would keep them in my heart somehow. I would also look for positive things in people around me and I would try to let them know, like: “You look pretty today!” or “Love your shirt!”
7. Reduce your use of technology: At least for the first half an hour after I woke up and the half an hour before I went to sleep I would wouldn’t use my cell-phone or any other electronic device. Bad news wasn’t the first thing I wanted to see in the morning nor the last thing I wanted to see at night. Also, blue light made my insomnia much worse, so that was another plus of disconnecting a little.

I know it’s easier said than done. I myself am struggling to start doing all these things again. I was able to keep the rhythm for one year and as I said, it was amazing. Then I went through loads of stuff, I stopped doing it, and now depression’s been knocking on my door again, so I thought that maybe by making a list of the things that once helped me would encourage me to start over and maybe it can be helpful for you too, guys. From the bottom of my heart, I hope it helps you.

Virtual hugs and kisses to everyone!

These last couple weeks I've been eating etizolam like skittles. Cuervo and lime biters every waking moment when I don't have to work. Broke over two years sobriety with meth did a 16th oz run. Topped it off with the inevitable hit of brown. Was rolled, robbed and stabbed. Much thanks to the kind doctors and nurses who brought me back to health. I don't know if I'm depressed per se but I know my heart is broken in millions of pieces and none of these things I described really works to fix anything. Just a numb bandaid. Love.

Thanks for your post, Cluelessness! It feels really helpful!

One trick that helps me a lot is doing gymnastic bridge every morning as long as I can. It is simple exercise that really helps with motivation throughout the day and increases core strength of the body. I can literally feel energy wave going throughout my whole body after doing it.

Oh god, that sucks.
I would advice you to quit those etizolams eventually. But i know they are incredibly addictive (though it officially isn't called an addiction but a dependancy, for whatever that's worth) so maybe it would be wise to consult someone who could help you to quit them.

I have taken benzodiazepines myself on several occasions, and i've realy grown to hate them. They definately make me feel bad physically and mentally. If i took one to get asleep, they would make me feel awfull for most of the next day, and a few days of taking them would be enough to make it almost impossible to fall asleep without them.
They turn you into a zombie if you ask me.

These drugs undermine your mental resilience. You can rebuild resilience with things like the wim hof method, exercise, yoga or meditation.

Bad things happen to most people eventually, but some people get depressed because they do not have the strength to cope with those bad things. This is not meant as an insult, to talk anyone down. It is just what i think is happening to people who get depressed. There is too much weight on their shoulders. More than they can have.

Sometimes you can just shed the weight, but sometimes that just isn't an option. If you lose a loved one, or have a chronic illness, that isn't something you can shed.
So then building the strength to carry that weight is the only option left.

Most drugs demolish strength. Psychedelics can too, if used unwisely. But they can also be used to build it.

Already many good points & insights in this thread! Thanks for sharing these.

I found meditation was one big factor helped in a big way for me though it requires a persist effort over time. Then increase any sort of physical activities like some of you mentioned also are beneficial IME. I'm reading this book "Can't Hurt Me" by David Goggins and it is so inspiring to get me out of some mental hurdles (also about challenge the physical limitations) it's worth take a look into.

I also got into fermentation foods because there are links in terms of gut floral to mood & mental state balances. It's worth research into how diet affect us each individually.

If I can add a side note about compassion... join "forgive/forgiveness" with this practice. I find a lot of times and probably many others who stuck in the negative mental cycles because of not able to let go & forgive. Yes, it's drinking poison willingly in a sense. Forgive so be able to be compassionate to self...

Blessings)))

Analogies can help with understanding aspects of the situation, and that's great, but I think one should be careful not to mistake the map for the territory (so to speak). Especially considering the negative bias depression puts on thinking... it's so easy to bias something that's basically arbitrary and unconstrained by reality. An understanding based on an arbitrary system of poorly defined, non-measurable attributes is just a personal narrative.

Want very badly now to change my username to cluelessness. PS Dragonrider I know that what I'm taking is not good medicine for my soul like the spice of cactus. All it does is help numb up.

I always fantasized my suicide by OD: Fifth of booze (ever since Her it will forever be Cuervo and lime) hand full of benzodiazepines and a extra large hit of heroin has always been how I've imagined to go. Came very close to checking out that way several times unintentionally. Lately though I've been spending hours every day thinking about what a high caliber bullet from a large handgun would do to the ol' thought machine. I'm thinking about the Desert Eagle .50. I'm sure it's a great gun and would make a wonderful emptiness of my mind. Lol at spending over $1500 on a piece you are only going to use one time. Life is silly.

Good thread.

Depression is not a stranger to me, it is something I struggle against constantly. It can rear up when things are uncontrollable and life is difficult, and my negative self-talk trys to convince me that that is how things should be, are, and will be. When things are good, it pops up trying to tell me that I am a fraud, and that anything I do that is good is just a fluke, or that I am crazy to think that is is good.

I'd go as far as to say that evrything I do is to combat it. I think I am just naturally pre-disposed to it, my first thought of suicide was at 7. But it really dug in after a severely violent encounter in which I almost lost my life when I surpised someone robbing my apartment by coming home. The collapse of all the supportive structures around me and the way that people moved in to capatalize off my vulnerability afterward is where the real trauma came from, and if I had not been shamed out of getting professional help after it happened, I don't think I would have turned to heroin to ameleiorate the PTSD symptoms.

For many years, I added complex trauma to that base of violence through a couple decades of addiction, criminality and all the wonderful stuff that happens in that world. Transactional relationships were all I knew, I lost the ability to trust, open up or love. I went through "treatment" after Tx, hospitalizations, two suicide attempts, detoxes, and the medication merry-go-round, trying to find some easy fix.

Finally, in desperation I tried acessing myself at a deep level by re-introducing myself to psychedelics. I've gone over that here extensively, so I won't elaborate much, but a singular powerful experience that replicated a NDE granted me a solution. It gave me an experiential awarenes of something far, far greater than I am, but of which I am an intrionsic part and inextricably linked. It fixed me in place as a human in between the above and the below, giving me a spirtual (I hate that word) foundation upon which to do some real work. It allowed me to finally forgive myself and feel love from both without AND within, if even just for a minute.

Since then, that was in late 2011, I've consistently expanded upon that experience by continued intentional psychedlic use, but the most effective parts of my regimen have been non-pharmacological. Private therapy helped unlock some stuff inside simply through verbalizing it, allowing me to process. Comprehensive attention to my physical health- I am 50, gotta really start watching out- with excercise and diet, and to my emotional/mental state through regular meditation. Creating art also helps me a lot. Making something undeniably beutiful with skilled hands is a great antidote for self-hate for me.

It is a constant struggle, especially since I do not take any kinds of medications for it. I react very poorly to SSRIs, so these more holistic approached are necessary for me. While it is more work than taking a pill, it requires me to have great self-awareness and that has been overwhelmingly helpful.

I hope this adds something to the conversation.

You are strong, dont succumb to weakness. Be strong. Be your true self. Read, drink water, go the gym; focus on strenght. Pleassure is not happiness. Happiness is not what we want either. We need to free ourselves from our illusions. Find every tool at your disposal and use it to turn in the opposite direction; die free and blameless and strong. One day at a time. Just get through the day. Each day will give strenght and this will purify you. Understand that the only reason to go back is if you want to do that till it cripples and or kills you, or because you love going through withdrawal; you are strong Tony and now is the moment to act and break free. There is no going back rationally unless you accept those two options given previously. You are not missing out on anything, you are doing yourself the most important favor you can in this life; you must give a gift to yourself for this life, let that gift be your willingness to abandon things not meant for you, and to achieve what you had only thought possible in your wildest dreams--the dream you dreamed with your heart long ago.

I love you and I am here for you.

Fran Lover, you are just too cool of a human being for words sometimes.

Thank you all for the excellent answers. A lot of food for thought. Hopefully this can help someone in need!

Much love to all of those that have gone or are going through hardships!

Tony6Strings, I worry about your post, please take into account all the strategies and ideas people said here, and know that if you need some support you can always pm me or others you trust, or you can join the chat at any time...

Be well!

Tony6strings this is a terrible thing to read. Not terrible because you wrote it, but terrible because you feel that way. I really hope that things go better for your headspace. Wishing you all the best.