Hey guys. So 2 quick questions....am I right that harmala's should not be taken if on Seroquel (for sleep)? Didn't find much online but 1 thread here that said it isn't recamended. What about trazadone is trazadone safe with harmala's?

What type of medications are they?

I think Trazodone is an SSRI (maybe wrong about that will fix after searching.



So I couldn't find much about eithers specific method of action on the brain besides "regulating specific neurotransmitters"

But drugs.com and WebMD said not to take trazadone if you have taken an MAOi in the past 14days.

And considering Seroquel treats things such as bipolar disorder through schizophrenia again through "regulating specific neurotransmitters" I assume that it also should not be mixed with MAOi

Both Seroquel and trazadone should not be combined with harmala's.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

OP stated that they were having difficulty finding information on this. In the states, both of these meds are frequently prescribed off-label, mainly, in my experience as a patient, for sleep problems like OP claimed is their issue. These are actually pretty commoon medications that are given to one of the populations that may be seeking help from psychedelics in the U.S., and this post has piqued my curiousity here. Psychedelics have proven to me their efficacy in treating drug addiction, and I'm wondering if this is the thing OP is dealing with. How would one go about titrating off of these meds and what exactly are the contra-indications? It seems to me that the anti-psychotic properties would pretty much nullify any chance of them "working", but is there also a health risk with MAOIs?

Not long before I re-introduced myself to something that actually works and came here, I had some run-ins with both of these crappy drugs. At the time I was dealing with serious problems related to my co-occurent addiction and mental health problems, (I'm still crazy, just less addicted) and struggling mightily to go more than a day or a week without shooting heroin or eating benzos and on more than one occasion I was prescribed both of these medications. Seroquel was prescribed to help (erase conscious cognizance of) me deal with recurring nightmares that made the idea of sleep terrifying. Trazadone was given to me in various drug rehab environment to knock me out sans "narcotics", or whenever I got arrested and asked for the county's "opiate withdrawal protocol".

If OP is dealing with a life-threatening addiction issue, psychedelics MAY work for them. However, trying to utilize the common route of over-medicating symptoms is pretty much anathema to what is required to heal using the psychedelic route. Attempting to use these medications and at the same time benefit from taking a psychedelic is pointless- and dangerous according to Trav.

So, OP, one quick question. What are you trying to do?

.

Let's answer the OPs original questions

1) Yes, you are correct in saying harmalas should NOT be taken with the medication Seroquel. It is not safe.

2) No, It is not safe to combine harmalas and Trazadone either.

https://www.drugs.com/amp/seroquel.html


https://www.drugs.com/trazodone.html



null24, it sounds like they are asking about the safety of harmalas, not necessarily the psychedelic experience

Thanks guys....Just what I wanted to know

Null24.... You are right about the addiction issue. I was a heroin addict for 10 years. I myself couldnt go 8 hours without using. And your right about the "off label" prescribing. Most doctors that deal with addicts will not prescribe regular sleep meds as they can get addicting. So they use Seroquel and trazadone. I stoped using well this December will be 10 years. However I have been on methadone this whole time. I was dead sober for about 8.5 years (besides the methadone) and incredibly depressed!

So anyway about a year and a half ago I started smoking weed again due to another med thing. I was throwing up a lot and loosing weight cause I wasn't eating. It helped with the depression. Eventually I ended up drinking a cacti tea. That 1 trip changed sooooooo much! I noticed I wasn't depressed at all for a while. It also made me realize being content to take methadone for the rest of my life just because I was scared of withdrawal was not the best idea. I am currently tapering off.

Since the 1st cacti tea I have had some experiences with mushrooms and dmt. This has been a huge help in getting back in touch with myself. With the heroin use and methadone use for the past almost 20 years well I was just so numb I didn't know who I was anymore and had next to no emotion. I just didn't really care much about anything.

So since these substances have improved my life so much of course I am curious about aya and changa. However I know maoi's are not good with some meds wich is why I asked the question. I was waiting till I am completely done with the methadone as well cause I know opiates and maoi are no good either! The LAST thing I want is to have a SUPER BAD experience end up sick or be so put off that I cut these things out of life.

I think it might be time to talk to the doc and find a better way to go to sleep! This has been a thought anyway. Just like getting away from the methadone I have kinda been re assessing everything. For example always had acid reflux and took medication for it. Well honestly all I needed to do was eat and drink a little better and the acid reflux went away. So maybe taking a look and finding a better way more natural way to sleep will be good for more than just being able to take aya. Finding a more natural way...maybe through plants as well I think would be better anyway!

Anyway thanks everyone for helping out!

Can't see any reason why seroquel and a RIMA would interact. Nor can I find a source that says they would cause issues together.
Wouldn't take a RIMA with trazadone or methadone.

Https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=397634#post397634


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Traveler....that was actually the single thing I found about it! usually you can find info from multiple sources but I couldnt with this that's why I asked.

So I can see a possible interaction (and this is purely speculation) but I have a very high tolerance to psychedelics. At first I thought it was only because of being on so much methadone and I still think that was partly it as trips have been getting more intense since I decided to start tapering off. However now I am also thinking it has to do with the Seroquel use. I have heard of people taking Seroquel to "deaden" a bad trip. So that tells me it works opposite to psychedelics and well if harmala's have a effect of increasing psychedelic effects I could easily see a "battle" for space going on in the brain. Wich probilly wouldnt be all that fun!

Bottom line is I have been much more investigative into what I put into my body. Not just taking a doctors word for it. And honestly the "off label" use of Seroquel in my case does bring up some concerns. So I will be talking to my doc and seeing if more natural ways of going to sleep will be better for me.

TalkingG- I kinda figured. Sounds like some of our experiences parallel. I too have used MMT and am currently stable at a 25mg dose of methadone, and am thinking about switching to bupe to gain a little more freedom from the clinic. Spent a couple decades shooting dope myself as well, so maybe we have some things in common.

Super happy to hear that you have been able to do the things you have and are free from the heroin, it is always good to see. If you ever want to talk about stuff, feel free to reach out. There are a few of us here in recovery, I'd like to see more connections between us and communications. Be good to ya!

Just a quick question, why would an anti-histamine (histamine receptor antagonist) be contraindicated with MAO-A inhibition? I've personally taken zantac, a histamine 2 receptor antagonist, with my Aya more times than not. I've also taken benadryl with Aya for a bit, although the CYP2D6 inhibition of the Harmalas potentiated the benadryl, but aside from that no real issue aside from exploding head syndrome one night and after that i stopped taking the benadryl lol.

Thanks traveler.
As always, the combination of Maoi with other substances provides much controversy.
The potential interaction which corpus is highlighting is due to the antihistamine effect of quetiapine. Some antihistamines increase tissue levels of noradrenaline, which when combined with a maoi, theoretically could lead to hypertensive crisis.
It appears that quetiapine does have some noradrenaline reuptake inhibiting properties, which would increase concerns.
None the less, I am unable to find case reports of poor outcomes for quetiapine and maoi.
I found some case reports of quetiapine and maoi being used in combination to effectively treat depression.
See the following reference, which is a good read on the subject,

Cns spectrum, 2017, 22,5, 391-396 by Meyer

Another insightful brief reference, albeit old, is,

Am j psychiatry, 1983, 140 (, 1107 by jenike

So whilst there is a theoretical risk of combining maoi with quetiapine, doctors are using this combination, as referenced above.

Hope this helps the op.

Don't know what's going on with that smiley face. That's supposed to be brackets with an 8 inside.
Forget to mention, the first reference supports Maoi use with trazadone as well

How do antihistamines increase Noradrenaline though? Is there some sort of increase in Noradrenaline through Histamine 1 receptor antagonism? or is it just certain antihistamines that may have other properties like increasing Noradrenaline or binding to Adrenergic receptors?

Also, i've taken Mucuna/L-Dopa (standardized extract) with Rue, and 2 hours before, and after Rue, and i do notice some potentiation in terms of Noradrenaline, so definitely probably best not to dose too high on things that can increase Noradrenaline, but with that said, i actually find the Mucuna with the Rue balances things out nicely since MAO-A inhibition doesn't really have much to do with Dopamine, but the Noradrenaline increase can be a nice touch and seems to help clear up the headspace. I find with Mucuna it's best to dose the Mucuna 2 hours before the Rue, rather than with the Rue or 2 hours after the Rue, also dosage may need to be adjusted due to potentiation of the Mucuna, at least the Noradrenergic side of things. One time i took Mucuna with the Rue and noticed a bit of an increase in heart rate and things definitely felt a bit more potentiated, so i lowered the Mucuna dosage a tad and started taking it 2 hours before the Rue and things seem fine now.

Also, i think Benadryl is a Histamine 1 receptor inverse agonist, which i forgot to mention earlier, so not an antagonist, so idk.

So half life of Seroquel is 6 hours...Would this be quick enough to think that not taking it a day before and after harmalas would seem ok? like I said its for sleep and usually I am tired enough afterwards that I wouldnt need it. Still new to figuring this stuff out so any advice is appreciated thanks everyone

So quick update guys....got a number of a doctor I can trust to talk about these things with so that is a HUGE PLUS! I talked to him VERY quickly...its a weekend didn't want to take his time up to much as its not a ASAP issue. He did say he wouldnt suggest any maoi with Seroquel but also said most likely wouldnt cause a issue. He hasn't heard of any cases where it caused a problem but I guess there is a "theoretical" issue that COULD be possible. Like I said before not planning to add any maoi right away anyway. on Monday I will be calling his office to schedual a appointment to talk about it somemore with him. So when I have some better factual evidence I will for sure update you guys! but thank you for all the help!

Add a space between the 8 and the right parentheses like this: (8 )