hi there.

so... i have read quite a few times / done research about participants losing control on ayahuasca and needing the shaman and his/her helpers give the person who is out of control some kind of drink that seems to stop the spiritual journey within five minutes or so. From what i can deduce from these few reports is that its either some citrus drink or herbal tea with salt and honey.

ok, so what is this magic?

its become something of a fascination for me trying to understand why this would have an effect, purely from a chemistry POV. unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of information out there about this, and i've done a fair bit of research... but its not been so fruitful.
It certainly seems almost as magical as ayahuasca itself if it can pull you back from the spirit world so quickly. its like a firemans pole back to earth.

generally, from what i can tell - its usually some type of sugary like liquid. Question is... is this more psychosomatic, possibly just based on the fact the shaman is handing this out? is this plants reacting to this in some kind of way that lets them understand to let go?

indeed, i have a friend who worked with a shaman over many ceremonies, and he said it was just herbal tea with a bit of honey that would pull people back from the ether.

what is this magical drink?! hahaha. it seems to go against the grain of what i understand with this topic. infact i have read from other sources that citrus / acidic liquid could actually make the DMT journey stronger?

any thoughts or personal stories welcome on the matter. just trying to research + understand what on earth is going on here.

thank you in advance.

SOme poeple say Vitamin C could lower a tryptamine induced trip. SO they would drink it during difficult mushrooms expeirences. I do'nt think you have an exit drink but some things to ground can help a traumatized tripper.

One thing I did once under a very dangerous mix ( of synthetic RIMAs and SYnthetic arylcyclohexamine Three Metoxy Phencyclidine ) was to take ghost pipe (monotropa uniflora ) tincture to lower my anxiety.. or rather I should say panic attack. But those Rcs or the unfamous cousin PCP are known to induce manic episode pretty easily.

Be safe. Generally, the best safety is to take care of set and setting, and dose low before you're comfortbale with yourself and the substance, and with practitioner or not. There isn't much an antidote to stop it all like some poeple asked for : " I could try a trip of acid if you have an antidote,n so if it goes south I stop" ... Well it doesn't work that way.

thanks r0m for the info! vitamin C you say could be the instrument?

FYI
i just wanna be clear - this is not something i want to do. Nor is it something am planning to have on the side. this is more just me researching this mysterious topic of this exit strategy, which to me is pretty magical in its own right.

from what i have read - its people practically returning from grave. the point of insanity, returning to humanity and earth once more within 10-20min or so.

also something just sprung to mind !!!!!!

--->
there was a youtube video with that guy called - YourMateTom, and when he did ayahuasca, he flips his lid and goes running around the place, and they give him some type of exit tool via the shaman, and within 15-30min, he has returned to reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKqmutAOCAI

timecode @ 13:15

he speaks about it. and mentions he 'very quickly returned to reality' with the help of a mouth of LIME AND SALT. (so, not a drink but it is vitamin C, or something sweet) but also, he mentions the shaman pulling the energy out.

am just so curious as to how this has an effect from a chemical point of view.

i will look into monotropa uniflora...
but for now, the mystery is still kinda out there on this lemon / honey / salt combo.
:-$

Lemon Balm for much smoother come up, reduced risk of bad trip, reduced anxiety/tension/stress/panic, and Tobacco for grounding. Cannabis to potentiate.

yep, thanks i hear you shamenstamen. am aware of lemon balm / tobacco.

BUT...

the question at large is still - what is it that happens when a shaman pulls someone out of the dark with their magical sweet/salty drink. its like a rip chord gets pulled from the reports i have read and they come back within 15min.

i am trying to seek / find out -
if this is a chemical reaction, spiritual or is it psychological.

many thanks

I'm not sure about the drink, although changing the course of one's experience can be relatively easy, song/music can change it's course, change of scenery can change it's course, helping to reassure someone or get them breathing in certain ways or even by distraction, can change it's course, aromas too, it's also been said that a shaman can manipulate energies of the space and affect people on a more energetic level, sometimes people use Tobacco snuff which i hear works really well for clearing the mind, grounding you, repelling negative energies and such, i'm sure there's quite a few herbal plants out there which when brewed up into a tea can be used to clear up the headspace and bring you out of things or to calm things, which are used as admixture plants or just their own teas consumed at some point during the Aya.

I'd lean more towards some sort of chemical reaction and psychological reaction, not sure about the spiritual side of things when it comes to bringing someone out of a negative headspace, psychological first and foremost, but chemical works for sure.

Just a GUESS here but maybe the citrus sugar SLIGHTLY calms and the rest is just a belief....I would be curious to know how far back it pulls you. I mean like is like bam and your not tripping (probilly not likely) most likely I would THINK your still tripping just calms you down and re focus's you...

I do know Seroquel will do a lot to slow things down...I take that on the regular for sleep any way but I have taken it before the trip was totally over and I believe it ends it quicker than it normally would...I have also heard of people taking a benzo but that's not something I know about personally or would even do or recamend

i was actually just chatting with a helper of a shaman a moment ago, and he claimed that 'salt' is the key grounding element here. apparently, it creates a disconnect of some sort with you and the plant. seems to swear by it but very much comes at this question from a spiritual point of view.

talks about plant 'energies' and the salt cutting that off.

hmmmm.
salt does appear to be a re-occuring ingredient in most of the reports i've come across

but then again, so is citrus...


:-$

I took Aya daily/near daily for 4 years, never dieted, never changed my diet, never restricted foods, and never avoided salt. Even though i ate salt, the spirit of the plants and the experiences they can induce did absolutely fine, no disconnect at all. So salt doesn't do anything as far as i know.

SHAMENsSTAMEN... you did aya for four years daily!!!!!
whoaaaaahhhhhhh, that story needs its own thread!

:-0

ShamensStamen, did you smoke/vape/ingest weed/hahs THC rich concentrates during this time ? WHat do you think ? I did both with or without ( with aya and changa ) and I think I'm better without. Also food doesn't seem to interact at first but I feel you may purge or be more or less nauseous. Also I drunk beer with pharma and once it was very pleasurable and the second tiome it was a headache.. So I get why it is discourage. doesn't mean it will kill you.
and for the salt, it tend to keep water trapped in body and when you purge with aya or kambo the water can purge easier. So you flush toxins ( and water and minerals in the same time so you can keep clean water and electrolytes or remieralizing herbs/food on hand liek spirualina, moringa ...

cbevil - daily/near daily, but yeah, i went at it for 4 years, i've really gotta try to write some things out and try to write down the path i've been opened up to, it's just hard to form in sentences lol, i've experienced a lot, so there's a lot to connect together and try to write down, maybe one day i'll get around to it though.

rOm - I did smoke mid grade/regular Cannabis during my Aya experimentation and pretty much all other Psychedelic use, and some high grade Cannabis here and there but usually mid/regular grade. Personally i feel it's best to ride out the come up without the Cannabis, and then smoke Cannabis like during the peak or afterglow. I used to not think it made much difference but i find that Cannabis increases the anxiety, intensity, paranoia, body sensations, makes things feel a lot stronger.

As for the food, never noticed any issues at any time, i even would build up the Harmala reverse tolerance to do away with the nausea/vomiting and would eat meals before, during and after the Harmalas, never had any issue. As for beer/alcohol, i'd recommend not consuming that with Harmalas, because Alcohol causes a lot of vasodilation, and Harmalas also cause vasodilation, and too much vasodilation can cause quite the headache, has nothing to do with Tyramine though. I've drank beer, vodka, and whiskey, on separate occasions while on Rue to put that to the test, and yeah, headache lol, it sucked, but was definitely due to the vasodilation.

As for the purging though, i for one have no problem when it comes to purging regardless of salt, Harmalas make me puke very easily, however since i've begun supplementing with probiotics, i find that helps a lot and my gut feels a lot better while on Rue now, i don't seem to purge much anymore when i take probiotics for a good bit.