I was curious if you believe hormones, specifically low/no testosterone levels could interfere with the process? - especially in the weeks after Ayahuasca.

Background: I've been taking exogenous testosterone and test derivatives for 10 years, non-stop. 4-6 week of TRT/low doses oscillated with 10-16 week higher doses.

Before my last set of Ayahuasca ceremonies I stopped (cold turkey). My experience was still very profound and amazing, and I felt a renewed energy afterwards. Energy that leads to inspiration and creativity, and that is what I want to do, create.

That after glow lasted a while, and I still have glimpses of that energy. At the same time my test levels are close to 0, and I whilst my energy levels and inspiration are still somewhat ok, everything is down big (zero sex drive/erections, a tonne of muscle loss, fatigue, etc.). Mood is generally fine though, except for the lower energy periods where I just don't feel much due to being tired.

It's been about 2 months since I last took exogenous testosterone, and it will likely take a few more months to observe if my body has been able to recover any natural testosterone production (3-6 months minimum, up to a year).

Because I've started this process, I'm wiling to go forward. Simultaneously I am doing another 10-12 Ayahuasca ceremonies in Peru in a week's time, and I would not want my low test levels to affect the process - of learning, energy, growth.

I don't care so much about (temporary) loss of sex drive, muscle loss etc. but I do care about getting the most out of the Aya experience, as it is this that is propelling me to go forward with new ideas and realizations/action-taking in our life on Earth as we know it.

I have access to the top endocrinologists in the country and my friends are authorities on the subjects of steroids and hormones, however they have very little/no knowledge on psychedelics.

So my question is, could there be a negative interference of my journey with Aya during and especially after the ceremonies - in terms of not being able to get the FULL experience and learning out of it or the FULL integrative actions I intend to do afterwards?

I am personally fine with taking TRT doses of exogenous test for the rest of my life by the way. However, I've been feeling more and more pulled towards going off of exogenous hormones more and more as of late (especially after being on for so long), in part due to my psychedelic experiences also and re-arranging priorities in life.

Testosterone plays a major affect on mood and mental health this is well documented how this will come into play with aya ceremonies is anyone's guess. Aya is too subjective an experience to know which way it could go. However, it would put you at a higher risk of a negative experience, this however doesn't mean it will. its too subjective to predict. Set and setting i guess!

Have you talked to your endocrinologists about HCG therapy to get your natural testosterone levels back up after being on TRT for so long? It'll help mimic LH hormone and trick your lydig cells into producing natural testosterone. Unfortunately, years of TRT will have done some damage to these testosterone producing cells but not all is lost, body builders on high doses of non-stop anabolics for 10 plus years have been documented to recover with a HCG course and gone on to have kids. For memory 3-6 months can be all it takes to get natural test levels back with HCG. Of-course other factors like diet, exercise also are key factors.

Literature has also document fodogia and ton khat ali as 2 herbs to scientifically boost testosterone in males with lower than normal levels. I believe these are the only document herbs to be clinically proven to boost levels. Herbs like Tribulus etc are a gimmick.

Thank you sir. You definitely do seem quite knowledgeable on the subject and I appreciate your extensive reply.

Spent 10 years teaching about sports nutrition and everything related so quite knowledgeable on the subject too and a lot of what you say I know. Was a long-time user of HCG for example. I have actually spoken to what should be the best endocrinologist/professor in the country, and he told me that there had been a recent study in Holland where it showed that bodybuilders doing a PCT did not necessarily fare better than people who went off AAS cold turkey. It seems many body builders had been doing PCT based upon tamoxifen and clomifene helping people with natural hypogonadism but apparently it makes little/no difference to AAS-induced hypogonadism, which is temporary. However the study was limited to people who had been on shorter cycles, not during an extended period of time.

As for HCG in PCT, like yourself I thought that could be useful too. However, whilst HCG stimulates the testes to product testosterone, they don't stimulate the production of LH and TSH (which is what you want to be able to recover natural production). So if anything, it could have the opposite intended effect as by directly stimulating test production it will therefore inhibit natural test production recovery.

Best I can do is eat well (in a caloric surplus) and make sure I'm getting enough things like vitamin D, zinc, perhaps those herbs you mention, DHEA, DAA etc..
Well aware of all the gimmicky crap.

So yea, the physical recovery aspect, gonna be more of a wait and see. Still feeling surprisingly very good (took Ayahuasca for the first time almost a month ago), and going back to Peru now for 10+ solo sessions with a shaman who I connected very well with, and he connected/felt my energy too - was able to help with the physical pain release.

For me I'd just want no interference (emotionally, spiritually and in terms of learning) from that, and especially the weeks/months afterwards - for the primary reason that I felt some strong inner energy come up, connected to what I believe is part of my purpose and future (something I was working on already in the past but had paused), and I'd love to massively be able to tap that energy for inspiration and especially, CREATION.

Thank you again for your thoughts and ideas.

I'm skeptical of this and therefore would like to read the study you are quoting out of interest. Data I've read is quite contradictory to that. There may be many limits to the study's data such as: want anabolics they were using (steroids vs HGH vs insulin vs SARMS etc)? the quality of their gear? if they were using pharmaceutical PCT? If they were scheduling it properly? etc some of those studies on steroids are done with extremely small sample groups too.

Body builder's use of anabolics varies greatly from person to person. Some one coming off a testosterone only cycle needs to transition to PCT slightly differently than someone on a tren/ test cycle. Addition PCT drugs may be necessary between different compounds stacked/ used.
Other anabolic compounds have so many other effects on hormone systems than just a standard testosterone cycle. In addition, the average steroid user sticks with the standard internet quoted PCT protocol which isn't always right due to different esters, compounds used, lengths of cycle etc. And for some reason a portion of the anabolic community thinks HCG should be run at the end of a cycle at ridiculously high doses (to the point of receptor damage from down regulation due to the saturated doses used). It can be hard (and expensive) to tailor a correct PCT plan with out continuous blood work.

Use of anabolics is huge these days (for obvious reasons) but for some reason there's not enough controlled studies on their use. The data is lacking but getting better. Tren is a classic example of this. Tren has been around for use in the body building community for decades and decades now, ever since the first body builders crushed up cattle trenbolone pallets and injected them (in the 90s?) yet there are nearly zero studies on its use in humans.



This is true it doesn't but it wont inhibit natural test production, if anything it'll increase it. Even if by direct action only (artificially). What you need to remember is hormones work off a negative feedback loop system (as I'm sure you know) by introducing HCG it'll kick start leydig cells in turn increasing testosterone and then signals will then be sent to hypothalamus to inhibit GnRH. When natural testosterone drops GnRH increases production leading to a increase in LH from the pituitary gland. Yes its not treating the root of GnRH release but that might not be the reason for low test, in fact it could be something else.
Artificial testosterone of-course shuts down leydig cells as well as the hypothalamus production of GnRH so the feedback system becomes broken (sort of). It's really a balancing act hence side effects from elevated testosterone (steroid use). In addition, there's so many other factors at play, receptor down regulation etc.

Yet, HCG does and can work. Its kind of like starting an engine from a roll start instead of by the ignition due to a flat battery. A roll start might not seem ideal but it'll still work if the battery is flat, the system will go on to run and even the battery will recharge and work as usual.

Just remember as a male you're evolutionary built to breed, and as many endocrinologist are finding with bodybuilders who have been juicing for years and years non-stop they eventually bounce back fine and quite quickly and go on to live hormone therapy free and have children (usually with a course of HCG or HMG).

Although I should add there is no normal level of testosterone, I mean there's low and naturally high limits but the inbetween ranges varies greatly from individual to individual. There's great variations between how individuals convert estorgen and DHT etc, and each individual has different levels of SHBG and free test etc. Someone with blood levels of 450 ng/dL of test may be able to put on muscle and have a higher sex drive than someone with 1000 ng/dL due to genetics etc. And someone at 300 ng/dL may function fine with no side effects of low testosterone. The variation of the human body is huge. I'm rambling a bit but my point was because of this testosterone seems to be over prescribed by doctors. Each doctor dictates what they think is low for someones age etc. And i think some of these low testosterone cases are likely caused by other issues (either directly or indirectly affecting test or perhaps not at all).


In any case, I think you have the right attitude and by the sounds of it mindset, so I think your trips will be fine. Even with the "blasting and cruising" you've been doing, I think you'll bounce back well given enough time and healthy living. By the sounds of it you are doing everything right I wouldn't be surprised if your natural testosterone bounces back.

Again, massive thank you for such an extensive reply.

The study quoted was new to me too: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33550376/
I retired from the fitness industry a few years back already but used to be more up to date with the latest stuff, and would have probably done something very similar to what you'd likely recommend.

I also double-checked with one of the authorities on the subject, Peter Bond (author of Book on Steroids), and a good friend of the highly respected Lyle McDonald who runs the BodyRecomposition group and website and he seems to concur with the endocrinologist/professor's recommendation with regard to HCG usage likely not being effective.

As for test being overly subscribed, likely very very country-specific. I believe in places like the US it is very easily prescribed, in places like Belgium it's hardly done AT ALL. I even had 1 doctor prescribing me some test at some point - official signed/dated/stamped letter from him, and airport security were making issues around that. HGG is no problem here for some reason.

But re the correct natural testosterone recovery, like you, I was/am still not 100% convinced that more traditional PCT's would not work - I was initially thinking tamoxifen, clomifene and HCG.

Did get 2 kids and the first was conceived towards the end of a tren/test cycle 6+ years ago if I remember correctly. Had continued administering 500-750iu of HCG every 3-4 days (something I'd be doing for the first 8 years of being permanently on). First try too - as in the first time I physically came inside her - I practiced ejaculation retention as I'd have something where the moment I'd cum one time (a few times if I was exceptionally crazy about her), I'd lose (sexual) interest. I loved this woman (she's my wife/mother of my kids now) so I did not allow myself to climax with her during sexual intercourse for the first part of our relationship.

This whole issue of losing sexual interest and resorting to other types of sexual fantasies (nothing bizarre and interesting very test/AAS dependent too) is something I'll likely set as one of my intentions during some of the next Ayahuasca sessions.

Re a PCT I'm actually curious if you're PCT strategy would be the same (I have a feeling it might be). Background is 10 years on, with the first 5 years having 3-4 harder cycles (with tren), but mostly just being on test + mast, a bit of anavar and boldenone here and there. Last couple of years not done anything very crazy, though even if I go above 500mg a week (average), I'll still get some gyno stimulation, despite taking some AI's - mostly something that arose after gaining some sensitivity after an early very highly dosed (overdosed) AAS 'brand'.

But yea, like I said, the interest does not like in that anymore - even back then it wasn't really to gain massive size or anything like that, but mostly to maintain what I'd built and to lose fat more easily (the test etc helping with muscle retention, libido and energy during low-calorie sessions). At this point I'm not even too bothered with the current high amount of muscle loss (and libido loss - completely gone), I'm sure at some point I'll train to get some of it back. What's important is health, and energy - I have a strong belief that 'energy is everything' - and how physical energy is tied so closely to feeling good/happy/inspired, in a mode where one can create...but also emotion (energy in motion), and how the channeling of energies between different parts of our body can be so powerful - I'm not good with that yet (far from), but my wife upon take any psychedelic is immediately in that all-knowing/understanding Buddha like mode.

P.S. I have a feeling we'd get along quite well in real. You seem to like the reasoning/science behind things too and seem to be quite strong in 'mind', yet also very interested in psychedelics. Happy to have virtually met you over here

Also quite a rarity to come across people who go deep in both these areas.

There so much I'd like to quote and go into more detail on but I don't have the time to re-read all the studies and brush up on the detailed pharmacology. (Which I know is lazy and makes me look like I'm talking shit). I will say I am by no means a endocrinologist.

Thanks for the link, I have a number of issues with this article. Proper PCT breakdown would have been good. 80% used PCT 20% didn't there's no breakdown of that data, just a summary. I mean at a blanket average there wouldn't be an overall difference to baseline because 80% of your data is from men who used PCT, in addition its not a good comparison size, such a big sample compared to a small sample. If they released the breakdown and data there may have been some statistical differences. I would have liked to have seen the exact data behind the 20% that didn't use PCT, what their protocol was and what compounds they used. They also only tested at the 3 month mark not 1 or 2 so there still is a strong possibility that PCT users bounced back quicker.

Again as I thought (and for clear ethical reasons) its not even close to a controlled study. There is no tests on how legit or potent their steroids were, if the PCT was pharmaceutical quality (steroids isn't easy to fake haha but PCT would be), there's no consistent cycle between the men in the study, they all had different stacks and esters, length, use etc.

I would also like to add none of those PCT regimes were consistent some started 1 week after last injection some 4 (its just guess work, would have been good if those men got bloods done to time it better with their PCT regime). It would obviously be down to what compounds are used and what esters to when the PCT should be started.
Some men used both tamoxifen and clomid which for memory they can interact (I need to re-read why I remember that being a thing). Not a major issue for memory.

And no HCG was used during cycle which is such a shame to not have that data. The point of it should be to be used on cycle to stop leydig cell damage (preventing testicular atrophy) and keep the natural test producing (trade off will depend on how one converts it). 1-3 weeks of HCG while your body's hormones are still stablising at a saturated dose I feel would be a waste. I've read doses 200-500ui a day causes too much aromatase activity which you obviously don't want especially just before or during PCT when your hormones are trying to bounce back.

You'll never get a perfect study unfortunately due to ethics but it still is an interesting study, there is just too many variables missing.




Is their opinion on HCG use in regards to usage at the end, during a cycle or both?



It definitely is. I would wager some of the low test cases are normal for that individual and many have other underlying issues that could be addressed.
I mean on paper who wouldn't want a testosterone boost, with all the benefits and this means many users will go from doctor to doctor until they find one that will.



There's definitely a lot of data to suggest it wouldn't hurt. I don't know if there will ever be detailed data.



8 years of continuous HCG, would have thought there would have been some down regulation there but it looked like it worked.



Look at the end of the day your literally fucking up your body and hormones. Its not evolutionaryily advantageous to be huge. It is a massive cardiovascular strain which at a evolutionary level we don't want due to how we use to hunt down food etc. In addition, at a evolutionary level our bodies don't want to and usually can't work that hard to maintain such size (genetically) it's literally why our bodies start pumping out myostatin to breakdown muscle growth so our bodies don't need to work so hard to maintain it. Also why body builders lose so much 'gains' when coming off the gear (as well as the drop in nitrogen retention/ water weight).

I've had a few friends naturally change their body compositions to the point you'd swear there on steroids but the amount of work, food, time and motivation is not attainable to the average man. Some of those guys were genetic freaks though. Did they look like Mr Olympia or were they as lean as some one on tren/ anavar stack? Fuck no! But they were genetically pushing their boundaries and put the average gym (steroid) user to shame. Yet, this brings us back to the temptation of steroid use its such a awesome shortcut, I mean you need to eat and train twice as hard when your on it but it allows you to do that due to faster recovery and increase energy/ appetite. It also helps get many over the "natural plateau".

Don't get me wrong I'm all about best quality of life at the best time but it's not maintainable. And there are drawbacks. Hence why there's so many trade offs. Tren is a classic example of something with so many draws back especially psychological. The increased libido is next level and i know a lot of men that wind up cheating on their partners while on it (when if they weren't on tren they never would have). I can't imagine doing a trip on tren, I rather do a trip post cycle when feeling flat than on a high dose tren cycle, way less of a psychological minefield.

I get why men stay on a constant cycle. Its so addictive, you feel good, lift more every week, get a confidence boost, libido boost etc so its hard to come off. The downside is the risks of long term damage increase. I mean there is some startling evidence coming out now for example even one time users developing glucose intolerance permanently. Is it enough to cause diabetes? Probably not but it puts you at a higher risk (this will be dependent on genetics too). And there will be more data eventually on other health issues I'm sure.

I do believe as a whole its safe but there are definitely compounds/ stacks safer than others and cycles easier on the body than others. Which is something I like discussing; there are definitely steroids one shouldn't touch. But I'll leave my opinion on all that for another day. Otherwise I'll be writing all day.


Ai use another point to talk about that men get wrong. Without bloodwork how do you know how much your converting? You do need a certain amount of estrogen on a cycle. You want to of-course avoid gyno but ya don't want to crash your sex drive or cause acne either. Hence why bloodwork is key. There's such a balancing act on auxiliary compounds and their usage depending on what anabolic compound you're using and how much, as well as your genetics.



By the sounds of it you have the right mindset now. Your issue will be breaking the addiction and dealing with less energy, losing the look, lower sex drive (temporarily), fluctuating moods, not being able to fuck like a pornstar (think tren) haha etc. Yet, I'm confident you'll bounce back, remember it'll be 18 months for all hormones levels to find that baseline again if that's the path you choose to take.



Yes likely we would. I'm surprised Ava69 hasn't weighed in.

_Trip_ thanks again for your detailed reply.

Unfortunately can't reply fully as I'm about to head to Peru in a few hours and will likely be completely offline there for the next 3 weeks; 10-12 solo Ayahuasca ceremonies with a shaman I really connected well with.

Re the study linked, only skimmed through too myself but completely agree with your thoughts on its limitations.

On the clomid/tamoxifen interaction, you mean something bad or that they go well together? or doesn't matter? From what I understood (from a long time ago) the idea was to start both at the same time; high and then taper off after.

As for the addiction, I didn't consider myself addicted to continual gains or shreddedness and never really even needed it for most of my confidence or any of that - the past years I basically continued taking for the energy and faster recovery generally, and in part also to hold on to some of what I had built already - even though I'm nowhere near as ripped or muscular as I once was I've not been too fussed about that (as long as I'm not massively over/underweight).
Years ago I had already made up my mind I'd be ok being permanently on, so the past years wasn't doing anything crazy re doses and only really used mast and test.

However, like you say, the cardiovascular toll it could have as well as many other issues such as being too interested in spending (wasting) time with other women. Which is almost paradoxical me saying that as I've even written and influenced a lot of men on being able to 'integrate' the mindset of never being jealous and being completely happy in open relationships...
Though the past while it started becoming clearer to me that a lot of it (seeking other intimate connections) was just wasting energy and time, and in the bigger picture definitely not a worthy priority. This became even clearer on Ayahuasca.

Now I know of course the low test is likely 'making it easier' in that area, but I do believe even if that would increase again that whilst I'd still feel attraction to other women, if I would LIKE to continue something sexual with them it would only be in 100% honesty/transparency with my self and my partner AND/OR it would only be with a conscious/interesting woman.

Setting this as one of the intentions going in, though I'm curious if we could even go there as body-wise, I don't feel any struggle there at all - would be different if I was on normal-high test with a high libido I'm guessing. But maybe not...we'll see

Not the primary reason for these Aya sessions in Peru though.

Heh ended up writing way more than intended too

May post some reports of the next journey down the line Be well!

You can do them together but it's not necessary, there was something about a minor interaction (maybe estrogen related or estradiol) I can't remember I'm sorry. They both achieve the same result regardless. They wont however, amplify each other. Tamoxifen works faster and has less sides so its really a better option (and cheaper than doing both). Most people I know use to run both but these days only run tamoxifen now with no difference. Bounce back is definitely compound dependent too. Anecdotally, most people will tell you a tren/ test cycle will take much longer to bounce back from then test only. And many gym junkies schedule their PCT around that fact as well as factor in length and dose.

I have friends that have retired in Thailand and all they do is train on gear and a good majority run much milder compounds and much lower doses than they ever have in the past now. They find the gains pretty much just as effective but with way less sides (especially mental for some).
Tampering seems to be becoming more popular. When you start tampering the dose at the end of a cycle to help transition off. Many report less sides and easier maintenance of gains. There's also a trend to blast and cruise especially in men that have already had children. Which is fair enough if that's what you want to do.


For someone who is coming off gear I like where your mind set is. And lets face it, at the end of the day you're the master of your own universe. So its up to each individual if that's the lifestyle they want and how they choose to do it is on them. Nothing wrong with the best quality of life at the best time in your life but there are always trade offs. I still feel such compounds (and this is true for psychedelics as well) they deserve respect and education so that one can make the best informed decision.

In terms of the current anabolic community these days I do see a lot of men (and women) really taking a proper interest in the science and safety. Which in turn a good majority of anabolic users now run gear in a 'safer' (and more educated) manner and use 'safer' compounds. Which is good to see. But there's so much data lacking and a lot of 'bro science' to sift through, its a ever evolving subject.

I think you'll be right with your aya trips regardless, have fun.