Calling all psychonauts/psychedelic explorers…
This is a call to the under-verse for exploration and comparative experience.

The point of this post is to explain a new method I have be working on to allow for a more cohesive navigation/exploration of sub-hyperspace realms by continuous small to medium vape pulls of a 1:1 combination of DMT to PEG400.

I would like to premise this by saying that at high doses (at the point where your open eyed visuals become distinctively affected or above) are NOT what this method refers to. This is about navigating the 2D/3D landscapes/systems that you encounter with your eyes closed on lower doses (10mg-20mg depending on your current method) and repeat dosing at those lower thresholds to keep your position constant, as opposed to letting the visuals fade away.

The result:
Movement and maneuvering various systems of both industrial and technical taking care to remain detached from them to allow observation and inspection without interaction.

My background:
With DMT alone (so not counting 5-meo/mdma/thc/lsd/psi) I have only had a couple upper level breakthrough type experiences. However I have had more sub breakthrough experiences than I care to admit. Take whatever number you may be thinking and it is way above that. Sometimes it’s purely for entertainment purposes, sometimes explorative, and other times for enlightenment. My biggest limiter with the spice is it’s short duration and the fact that Harmalas make me feel terrible at doses needed to be effective at extending the trip length.

My main method of use has always been a mesh atomizer, weighing and then trying to move it to the atomizer has always been tedious and redosing was nearly impossible. However a while back I came across some reliable methods for making DMT juice for use in vape tanks. This has completely changed how I explore.

DON’T STOP READING!!! This post isn’t about JUST vaping. It’s about a unique method for doing so that will yield some pretty interesting experiences. I would love others to try this method I’m going to lay out and post their experiences.

My setup:
I use an Aegis Max by GeekVape, with a Z Sub-ohm 2021 Tank. I used PEG400 in the amount of 1.5ml combined with 1.5g of white DMT crystals in a small 5ml glass vial with a rubber top. Stirred and lightly heated until dissolved. Then transferred to the tank. I set the air opening to about 1/4 open.

My method:
I started off at 13watts (the device registered the atomizer at 0.30ohms) and it was smooth. Maybe too smooth. I pressed and held for about two seconds. Then released. Pressed again and held. Put it to my lips and did a slow shallow inhale for 10 seconds. Released and repeated for another 10 seconds. You want to be able to get both hits in and still only be at around 70% lung capacity. This allows you the ability to top up your lungs with a few catch breaths if you feel like you need to exhale. Hold it as long as you can. At least a good 30 seconds from the end of the second pull. Then close yours eyes and see what you see. This is ONLY THE BEGINNING.

This is where is gets interesting:
The great thing about this setup is that you can keep traveling and retravelling without needing to remeasure or reload. I decided to bump the wattage up to 15-16w which produced an actual yet light throat hit but with much stronger effects.

So, after you have closed your eyes and you see whatever you see when things start to fade or if you don’t see anything just do another 10 second hit. Prime it for a quick second. Then hold, 10 seconds inhale, and hold it. You will experience something totally new and different than if you were to dose and then close your eyes. Redosing while your eyes are closed will lead you to new experiences.

My personal experiences:
There were times where on my initial dose I would see faint images or what looked like morphing art installations with what looked like humanoid beings in peripheral vision. Or I would see 2 dimensional scenes of what looked like I was watching anime or cartoons on a TV with my nose pressed against the screen. Sometimes I would see the front ends of a system control panel. One time I was being escorted somewhere and it was moving very slowly. I knew I wasn’t going to make it to my destination because especially at lower doses the visuals don’t last long. Sure enough everything started to fade to red and black. I then realized my vape was still in my hand. So I took another 10 second pull and everything came to life around me. The best way I can describe it was like in the scene in the original Tron, when Flynn touched the controls of the damaged Recognizer

https://youtu.be/v4ZmHyqTU_0

I could feel a surge of energy and systems came to life, colors became vibrant, my vision cleared up and I saw very clearly a network of various system. Interconnected. I focused on one specifically because I saw what looked like branding. Like company logos and specific fonts. I tried to focus on the words but couldn’t get close enough to read them. I remember saying “get me closer so I can see! Closer CLOSER!” I then took another quick 5 second pull to try to make things even clearer.

When I did it was like I went up a level in terms of the flow of the system. Like where I was before that hit was at a control panel, but after that hit I was taken up the system to where that control panel and system was fed from. It was some sort of branching network of tubes with a langue I didn’t understand. They were had color coded labels. I moved past them and then to another area. It was a series of pipes, but more like grey rubber tubes. I could see labels on them referencing different things. Things like fruits and chocolate. I don’t know if they were smells, tastes, actual “food” of some sort but I remember thinking so THIS is where is comes from. Then I said “I want to see further”. I want to know about the company and the technology. But unfortunately that is as far as I was able to go.

I tried taking another hit, but instead of moving me further up the chain I accidentally got stuck. This happens from time to time depending on the size of the hit. It ends with me either interacting with the system in someway or simply fusing with something. When that happens I get buzzing feeling like touching a live wire, and the back of my neck starts to hurt or swell. Like I’m taking in lots of info or my neural network is being assimilated into the system which scared the bell out of me the first time it happened. I thought I was seeing my true form. Some kind of brain in a box. Like the matrix but instead of being used to generate heat/power my brain was being used along with others in some kind of neural network for some other purpose like a living computer.

So at that point I had two choices. Take another hit to try to pop myself out of the position I was stuck in, or open my eyes and end this trip. Normally I would have gone with option one. But I realized that for some reason I had tears running down my face. I then started to think about what I was seeing. That these systems existed for a reason. Perhaps they drove our simulation/reality, maybe a glimpse into tech of the future, or maybe I was peering into systems from other dimensions. Regardless it gave me some hope of possible existence beyond my short time in my current iteration. I then decided that if I wanted to continue this type of exploration I was going to need to do more work with harmalas to be able to extend my duration as these short bursts were exciting but left me unfulfilled.

My challenge to you:

I would love for others to replicate my method and see what you experience. I never used this setup with the intent to breakthrough. Only to be able to more finely control movement through the “Under-verse” as I refer to it. Once i took three full hits in one breath and before I could even realize what was happening I popped through into somewhere right on the edge of hyperspace. I know if I had exhaled and done one more hit. I would have taken off. But again, it’s all about the experience of using the vape to bounce yourself back. Then most important part is to never open your eyes when redosing. Feeling everything come to life around you and seeing the transitions is something everyone should experience.

That's great but do you think you could edit your thread title to be a bit more informative, please? Something like "E-mesh vaping with PEG-400 juice - success! {etc.}" will suffice.

What is it that you find so terrible about the harmala effects? And how have you dosed your harmalas? Have you tried sublingual, or maybe - as recently posted here - a pre-dose of vaped harmalas 10 minutes before the DMT?

Did you try working up from a small dose to become accustomed to the effects?

That's in no way intended to knock what you've developed here - I even wonder if, were you to find your own personal harmala method sweet spot, you'd get even further in your explorations.

Do you feel there are any parallels between the method that you describe here and any parts of the various e-juice/vape pen/RDA mod threads?

Harmalas can be a little rough in some ways when not accustomed to them. I had a consistent period of purging everytime I smoalked changa. Perhaps dial the amount back, or start acclimating yourself to their subtle power by engaging them on their own.

One love

yes.. at first.. one needs eyes open to safely set down the vaping device if its a flame fired device..

But if it electric battery direct E mesh ..that might be safe to hold in hand ...

....The part about keeping eyes closed..[when vaping spice].. makes sense..since the real trip is usually with eyes closed..

I find that during my nightly dreaming ...when i use a sleep mask.. and blacking out the room..my dream recall is better!..because my dreams are longer and more vivid !

It makes sense to try this... good point

I'm pretty sure something like 90% of people close their eyes instinctively whe the dose is high. I did.

Many people do close their eyes after vaping spice..i always do...but found myself opening my eyes intermitintly which can interfear with the visuals..

and my guess is that a lot of people do open their eyes during a trip and in doing so...break the train of visions...

I know this to be a fact..as i often closed my eyes to look inward.....but often i would open them... and in doing so... i interfeared with some nice visuals and along with the visuals.. you get beautyfull emotional content... that makes the visuals so enjoyable!

[Without the emotion].. the visuals would seem lifeless and meaningless..

To hold the visuals keeping your eyes shut through most of the trip makes sense...but i guess if the spice dose is ..[large enough].. it wouldent matter much ..open eyed ..or closed eyed..you would be emersed in a visual overload situation...

not everyone keeps their eyes closed through the entire trip...

Post name changed. It’s not about having created a successful DMT juice it’s about the method of using it to navigate the sub-hyperspace/low dose accessible systems/places.


I am definitely going to look into vaping harmalas. I have done sublingual and just swallowing them. I’ve struggled to find a sweet spot with ingestion. Either it’s too little 100-150mg swallowed and I feel nothing or it’s too much (usually any amount over 300mg swallowed and my head swims and I feel like a bobble head with vertigo and then the purging. Dear god the purging. I spit up a tablespoon of foamy stomachs acid since there is nothing else to throw up, but my body doesn’t care. So I retch for like 20 minutes and at that point I don’t want to do anything else but sit there and drool. Also it makes me so tired that I just lose interest. (Usually I would wait about 30-60 minutes after the harmalas before dmt)


I did, I’ve found that with straight ingestion 300 seems to be my top limit. Anything above is guaranteed purging. Sublingual is so difficult because I salivate worse than a hyena at a wildebeest buffet so my mouth fills quickly and that taste is all I can think about.


No insult taken. I appreciate the feedback. I really hope to be able to find a way to predose with Harmalas to allow for more long term exploration of these sites. I want to learn more about them.


I found that many of those threads are more about tuning the mods/juices to allow for the strongest hits and less about the boundless potential inherent in being able to repetitively redose using e-liquid. You can load 1g of spice in a decent sized tank and spend hours exploring and experimenting.

The biggest thing I guess I want people to take away from this is (and yes I know the DMT experience is subjective but at least with me, over hundreds of DMT assisted journeys (yeah I said it) I have re-visited MANY of the same places multiple times, and have found many correlations and things in common with the systems/networks/devices/machines I have encountered. Similarities in things like fonts, color pallets, design, layout and even function to an extent. I have taken extensive tours of various facilities (I blame this highly on my initial intents during my fledgling journeys of asking for tours and to be “shown around”. I have learned to be much more specific in what would like to be shown or what type of experience I am looking for.

This method not only allows for a controlled ascent through the various “levels” of the under-verse but also prevents accidental interaction/fusion with these systems that can happen on higher doses. It’s best to think of a dose of DMT administered to your system as an influx of power, not only in the sense of being a power source that the systems/entities can and will feed off of, but also as a means of propulsion.

I have come to realize that on lower levels there are many things that can effect what happens most of them in a negative way:
1. Shifting your attention.
This can have a huge influence on what you interactive with. Because at least in my experience you don’t have appendages things are often activated and your movement is often controlled by where you are focusing.

2. Posture
Let’s say that when you close your eyes you are sitting in a recliner. Feet on the floor head laying back slightly. This is your center point. Like if you look at an analogue stick on a game controller. Dead center with no outside force applied. If you lean your head/body in any direction while you are in a 3D space your movements will be affected.
This can cause issues like accidentally moving out of line with whatever system you are navigating/investigating. This has in previous trips caused me to go off the rails and end up outside of the “ride experience”. Which actually was very enlightening. Because I ended up outside of the “ride” I was able to see how it worked. Inside the ride I was seeing colors and shapes and moving images all very “neat”, but from the outside I could see the pods that hold the riders and I could see the system that was being used to produce the experiences for the riders in the pods. It was a system of light emitting bulbs that were directed/shone onto these pods. I remember getting too close to the light a few times (still hadn’t quite gotten the whole movement thing down) and feeling various sensations. Feeling joy, arousal, smelling chocolate, smelling smells I couldn’t even identify except to say they were like what I imagine euphoria smells like.
3. Opening your eyes
This is a big one and the main focus of this post and new method of exploration.
First off I just want to say that if you don’t close your eyes while on lower doses you REALLY missing out on a LOT of what DMT has to offer. Yes, at higher doses your open eye visuals are absolutely amazing. But at lower/medium doses (where you may hear the tone and your vision sharpens but it hasn’t yet popped into candyland) you NEED to close your eyes and see what is there.
Opening your eyes is quite possibly the worst things you can do on DMT. I can’t speak to what it can do on high doses (I’ve heard mixed reports from “eyes open and closed are the same” to “worst mistake ever” but couldn’t site examples.
However on low medium doses you can not only ruin your trip but you could cause harm to the environment. Yeah I know that statement probably just made many eyes roll but I have experienced in multiple occasions that even something simple as a quick blink from closed to open to closed again can cause your (I’m going to call it your astral form for lack of a better term) to lurch in the direction of your attention. Once I was in front of a machine ( brown and blue) and I was viewing the console and my dog barked at a noise she heard out in the real world. I instinctively opened my eyes only for a half a second to look at her and when I closed my eyes again I could feel something was off before my closed eyes vision focused. My form has lurched (maybe drifted) forward about 3 feet or so and I was now fused with the data/electrical cables that ran along the wall. If you’ve ever been stupid enough to try doing household electrical work and didn’t test to be sure your lines were dead before touching them you know what I felt. That numb buzzing electric charge. If your ever put a 9-volt battery to your tongue it’s like that times 100. Once I realized what was happening I opened my eyes and within seconds the feeling was gone.
Being able to take small re-doses while keeping your eyes closed will allow your form to not only stay in or every move from level to level with more precision but it also allows you to prolong an experience if you are enjoying it or find something interest you want to explore further.
I’ve tried to reload e-mesh mods with powder to redose without opening my eyes and it never ends well. Spilled spice, too much, too little and don’t even bother trying to redose with your eyes closed using an method that requires a lighter. Too dangerous.

4.Verbal Intent.
This one is hit or miss. There have been times I have been unable to move myself around (usually it’s because I am inhabiting something like a machine/bot/camera/drone that is on rails) and I have found that if I voice my request (“get me closer”, “let’s go over there”, “stop moving please” “wait”) it will be heard and accommodated.

? I’m sure there are many more. I would love to hear others experiences in terms of maneuvering sub-hyperspace.

If I hit a point where I my reality shifts after a hit of DMT I usually spend a few seconds observing open eye visuals, things like the runes/glyphs or how beautiful things become (I like to put pinup or high level manga art on my TV when I do DMT, seeing the change in visual clarity and complexity (realistically drawn characters can become almost lifelike (be careful with images of things like Succubi or beautiful demon girls. Seriously. It’s a rabbit hole… a very sexy rabbit hole) before closing my eyes to begging my adventure.

I posted in one of my other responses the “dangers” inherent in opening one’s eyes during a trip. You mentioned some of that here. You definitely can not only interfere with your visuals but you can get lost altogether.
Open eye visuals usually require a significant amount of spice if taken alone. But closed eye visuals can offer so much more. Plus because it’s not happening to your reality (opened eyes shifts of perception) closed eye visual are often much less emotionally stressing. Vaping or even normal smoking starting with your eyes closed can completely eliminate the stress that can accompanies the fast come up. It also eliminates outside visual influence on your initial destination.