I recently pulled my PF tek-improved jars (10 of them) out of incubation and into a fruiting chamber. It took a lot of time for the fruiting to begin, and the first mushrooms in the beginning of the first flush are small and not plentiful... I have a fair amount of experience with this tek, and I am used to seeing healthy and abundant flushes. This time, however, I am a little surprised... Because of my living space and situation I have to keep the fruiting chamber in a back room in a corner, though near a tall window. The window bottom is higher than the chamber and the amount of light that falls on it is not high, also because we are fast approaching the longest day of very overcast and dark winter to date. My question is: in your collective experience, is there a correlation between amount of light, size of fruit and robustness of flushes (all other things, like temperature and humidity, being equal and sufficient)? I have always understood that the light and slight drop in temperature were just triggers for the fruiting to start, but are they actually instrumental in affecting yield (in extremes, of course, but I mean even within a reasonable range)? I have always deduced that in the wild, as temperatures drop, leaves fall from trees and there is a consequent increase in the amount of light that gets from the canopy to the ground below, initiating pinning in a swollen and waiting forest floor mycelial mass. From this I imagined that the increase in light was not significant and, again, only an initiator of pinning and not a determiner of fruit size and yield. Am I wrong? Thanks, JBArk JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
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jbark wrote:I have always deduced that in the wild, as temperatures drop, leaves fall from trees and there is a consequent increase in the amount of light that gets from the canopy to the ground below, initiating pinning in a swollen and waiting forest floor mycelial mass. What mushrooms are you growing? Tropical mushrooms like P. cubensis don't know deciduousness or seasonality with wide temperature variations like in temperate climates. If there is such a thing as winter and summer in their native habitat, I wouldn't think they differ by no more than a couple degrees. I'd think the reason mushrooms get more light than the mycelium is that the mycelium is below the ground and the fruits grow above it. The parts of the mycelium closest to the ground level get the most light, so that's where pinning starts.
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I've heard different things on this subject. There is a published article claiming that darkness improves potency (first attachment). However, I think this research has a flaw: they used chlorophorm to extract and that would only pull psilocin I think, leaving psiclocybin behind. My personal take on this article is that in darkness the mushrooms will make more psiclocin and that's it. If the unmeasured psylocybin levels are lower for the dark mushrooms (unkwon) it could just mean that a little light encourages psilocin->psilocybin. The most consistent thing I've heard for cubensis is that a little light (similar to a shadowed forest floor) is ideal. However, I don't have any hard data to back that up. One thing that seems consistent is that once extracted, it is important to avoid light (second attachment). So work in dim lighting conditions when making a tea or alcohol extract, store alcohol extracts in amber glass, etc. Attachments: "Enhancement of Indole Alkaloids Produced by Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer (Agaricomycetideae) in Controlled Harvesting Light Conditions"
"Investigation into the temporal stability of aqueous standard solutions of psilocin and psilocybin using high performance liquid chromatography."
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Jagube wrote:jbark wrote:I have always deduced that in the wild, as temperatures drop, leaves fall from trees and there is a consequent increase in the amount of light that gets from the canopy to the ground below, initiating pinning in a swollen and waiting forest floor mycelial mass. What mushrooms are you growing? Tropical mushrooms like P. cubensis don't know deciduousness or seasonality with wide temperature variations like in temperate climates. If there is such a thing as winter and summer in their native habitat, I wouldn't think they differ by no more than a couple degrees. I'd think the reason mushrooms get more light than the mycelium is that the mycelium is below the ground and the fruits grow above it. The parts of the mycelium closest to the ground level get the most light, so that's where pinning starts. So I guess it would be more the very slight change of temperature (10F or 5 to 6C) that initiates the pinning. The light in this case, as you are proposing, is needed by the fruits for their growth, but does not play a part in their pinning. Interesting! And yes, I am growing P. cubensis (teonanacatl). Thanks, JBArk JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
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Loveall wrote:I've heard different things on this subject.
There is a published article claiming that darkness improves potency (first attachment). However, I think this research has a flaw: they used chlorophorm to extract and that would only pull psilocin I think, leaving psiclocybin behind. My personal take on this article is that in darkness the mushrooms will make more psiclocin and that's it. If the unmeasured psylocybin levels are lower for the dark mushrooms (unkwon) it could just mean that a little light encourages psilocin->psilocybin.
The most consistent thing I've heard for cubensis is that a little light (similar to a shadowed forest floor) is ideal. However, I don't have any hard data to back that up.
One thing that seems consistent is that once extracted, it is important to avoid light (second attachment). So work in dim lighting conditions when making a tea or alcohol extract, store alcohol extracts in amber glass, etc.
Attachments:
"Enhancement of Indole Alkaloids Produced by Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer (Agaricomycetideae) in Controlled Harvesting Light Conditions"
"Investigation into the temporal stability of aqueous standard solutions of psilocin and psilocybin using high performance liquid chromatography." Also interesting... so in light of this (yes, silly pun intended!), my problem with size and yield is coming from another factor - perhaps I am under misting. I'll try higher humidity and see - insofar as temperature is concerned, the room they are in is at a constant 70f (21C), so that is right smack in the middle of the range. I tend to agree with your assessment of that study also. Funny they would not have taken that into account... Thanks again, JBArk JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
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Have you considered spanning jars to substrate in a monotub? It gives very good consistent results in my experience.
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Loveall wrote:Have you considered spanning jars to substrate in a monotub? It gives very good consistent results in my experience. That's my next step. The first flush is coming through on a few of these jars, so I think it might be too late... I am getting a lot of pinning on the sides of the jars, and quite a few mushrooms growing there that I have had to dig out and nearly destroy... I had a great idea that isn't working as well as I had hoped for this problem - CINEFOIL. It is a black, thick aluminum foil product used to mask light at the source on television and cinema lighting. It is matte, totally unreflective and very good at absorbing/blocking light. I think the problem is that no matter what is used to mask the sides and bottom, light leaks through the glass of the mason jars and down the sides, initiating pinning. Have a layer of vermiculite as a casing on the top, so the sides are likely getting MORE light than the top! All of this is, of course, solved by using a mono tub, as you suggested. I'm just not sure what my next step is - I might even grow out some mycelium in agar from fruit cuttings and then colonize some larger grain jars, to eventually mono tub them and get a small field of the little guys! I just don't use enough to justify large yields, even giving away quite a bit to friends. But I would at least like the experience of growing out a large batch - not to mention the photo ops!! Cheers, JBArk JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
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Light is only a secondary pinning trigger, primary is fresh air exchange (FAE), evap of water from substrate and drop in temp by about 5 degree celsius. However proper light will double your yield according to roger rabbit who is an incredibly reputable user on shroomery, what he means by proper however is arbitrary as pussfarts set up is pretty dim (just two lights).. also this.
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