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DMT-Fumarate turned to black sludge? Options
 
fathomlessness
#1 Posted : 4/16/2018 2:04:42 PM
After storage for over a year or two the dmt-fumarate started going black in areas. Looked like some kind of mold so i put it in the oven at 100c and the whole thing melted in to black wax. What is going on here?
 
endlessness
Moderator
#2 Posted : 4/16/2018 2:17:52 PM
Weird, never seen that happen even after many years.

If it was mold, though, not sure if just heating it up is a good idea, you might kill mold but maybe mycotoxins wont burn at that temperature.

Either way now you probably should dissolve in water and re-base and re-extract, or make paste with sodium carb and pull with ipa/acetone and do FASI/FASA on it again, see what you get.
 
Loveall
Chemical expertSenior Member
#3 Posted : 4/16/2018 4:39:25 PM
If a mold is metabolising dmt fumerate, you may have a new hyperspace intelligent lifeform on your hands. Very happy
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Exitwound
#4 Posted : 4/17/2018 11:35:31 AM
Loveall wrote:
If a mold is metabolising dmt fumerate, you may have a new hyperspace intelligent lifeform on your hands. Very happy


And I bet it's pissed off after being heated in the oven Big grin
 
fathomlessness
#5 Posted : 4/17/2018 2:39:06 PM
endlessness wrote:
Weird, never seen that happen even after many years.

If it was mold, though, not sure if just heating it up is a good idea, you might kill mold but maybe mycotoxins wont burn at that temperature.

Either way now you probably should dissolve in water and re-base and re-extract, or make paste with sodium carb and pull with ipa/acetone and do FASI/FASA on it again, see what you get.


Yes weird indeed. I put it in a container with a bit of air and the fumarates were slightly wet. There is no way I want to re-base all of that and re-convert it to fumarate. I'll just store it again as a black tar goop and trust that dmt-fumarate is polymorphous like freebase is... it is solid at room temp but sludgey at 120c, would assume it is very water soluble and basification would just eat through the goop turning it white with goodies Big grin
 
fathomlessness
#6 Posted : 4/17/2018 2:40:32 PM
Loveall wrote:
If a mold is metabolising dmt fumerate, you may have a new hyperspace intelligent lifeform on your hands. Very happy


Interesting hypothesis Very happy maybe i should send a sample to SETI
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#7 Posted : 4/17/2018 9:21:42 PM
DMTFumarate does indeed display darkening, presumably from oxidation, when exposed to the air for a few months or more.

For the record, freebase in aqueous IPA with sodium carbonate turns red over the course of a couple of weeks...




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
fathomlessness
#8 Posted : 4/18/2018 4:38:25 AM
downwardsfromzero wrote:
DMTFumarate does indeed display darkening, presumably from oxidation, when exposed to the air for a few months or more.

For the record, freebase in aqueous IPA with sodium carbonate turns red over the course of a couple of weeks...


I was under the impression dmt-fumarate didn't oxidize? I made the assumption probably because of looking at why we convert it to fumarate for storage to avoid that issue. So what do you think the result would be? dmt-n-oxide-fumarate? I know dmt-oxides won't convert to dmt-fumarate. So when basing will those fumarate oxides still be active?
 
blue.magic
#9 Posted : 4/18/2018 4:51:27 PM
Perhaps it have been incompletely converted containing some free base DMT to oxidize. Another problem might be presence of water (moisture).

I finely powdered my fumarate, dried over calcium chloride in a vacuum dessicator, then put in a sealed glass vial.

But it stayed in loosely closed petri dish well over year with no problems. So it must be some contams, not pure fumarate.
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#10 Posted : 4/19/2018 11:45:44 PM
Yes, it was impure fumarate that darkened. There was a trace of limonene present along with whatever else.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
fathomlessness
#11 Posted : 4/20/2018 1:19:30 AM
So if that is the case, why would the entire thing turn black and melted upon heating?
 
 
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