SWIM has a headache and cannot sleep. He's used kava before for headache relief and it usually works, especially if combined with passionflower. Right now he has no passionflower at hand but has Datura inoxia seeds.

About 1 hour ago he took about 150 mg of kavalactones and about 175 micrograms of scopolamine (in the form of Datura inoxia seeds). I'm not sure but it seems like their effects are clashing a little.

Does anyone have any experience with this combination?

I'm not talking about large dangerous doses here, only safe small doses of each. Datura inoxia seeds contain scopolamine, which is very dangerous at high doses, but here I'm only talking about micro doses smaller than the safe doses that doctors typically prescribe to patients. At about 100-200 micrograms, scopolamine is a mild sedative and I'm expecting it to increase the sedative effects of kava, and also increase the pain killing effects of kava, but it seems like the scopolamine is blocking them, or maybe SWIM just has an extra bad headache?

kava kava should not be combined with anti cholinergics. I can't find out why but its one of the potential interactions thats warned against.

SWIM is fine. There were no problems or negative interactions experienced whatsoever.

Yea, warnings are all over the place when it comes to Kava. Too many of them and they are way over dramatized. I don't believe most of the warnings are very relevant to the dosage ranges most people actually use. If you read in detail, most of these warnings are theoretical, and are typically talking about doses most people don’t ingest. But there are people who use massive amounts of Kava. SWIM is not one of them though. 150 mg of kavalactones is about the most SWIM will use.

Anyway, it helped SWIM sleep. He slept very well and had a ton of dreams. He still feels a little of the Kava fog today and can’t easily shake it off.

The combination was not as nice as Kava is on its own. Passionflower and Kava is a better combination I think. The scopolamine made the bodily sensations of Kava less pronounced, and seemed to also block the euphoria a little bit, and did nothing to help get rid of the headache. It did make it easier to sleep though. So the combination is good as a sleep aid.

I agree with Burnt on this one.

Don't combine plant-medicines that were not traditionally combined.

What does Kava and Passiflora do?

yes there is a bit of controversy over the safety of kava kava these days. i haven't looked into it enough to know how safe it is or not. but i think at average doses its fine. no worse then alcohol i'd imagine. sometimes studies purposely use insane doses in animal models or in vitro tests just to get positive results. it pisses me off and its something researchers and journalists need to pay close attention too.

When you talking about passionflower and kava 69 ron have your swimmer tried THH HCL with kava?



ILPT was thinking about having 200 mg kavalactones orally folowed by application of 50 mg THH.HCL subling. or 100-150 mg orally

The kava and passionflower combination is a classic combination and very pleasant and not at all toxic in how it feels. It’s very good for muscle tension. Passionflower is a very weak MAOI though.

100 mg of THH orally is enough for some MAOI effects, 200 mg is better though (for SWIM). He’s not tried mixing THH with kava yet.

I’ve read that taking kava with a strong MAOI is risky. But then I’ve also read that taking mescaline with an MAOI is risky, but SWIM has used mescaline with THH a few times and the combination doesn’t feel toxic one bit. THH is not a full MAOI, it’s only a RIMA, so some MAOI precautions don’t apply to THH.

Kava is itself a reversible MAOI of subtype B, so I’m not sure how realistic the MAOI warning are concerning kava. It’s like saying “don’t take an MAOI with an MAOI”. It doesn’t quite make sense. But with THH begin a reversible MAOI of subtype A and kava being a reversible MAOI of subtype B, then you have both types of MAO inhibited, and that might not be good.

Anyone else have any input on this?