I agree that it can be a good thing to loose ones mind everynow and then, but seriuosly, the best part of the trip was when I started coming back down again, and i realised I was getting my sobriety back. I mean i dont mind going deep, but when your so deep that you cant remeber who you are, let alone what your intention is...then i dont know what your getting from the experience....other than the fact im very grateful to be alive...which isnt a bad think at all i guess : )

I had syrian rue, THH and jurema. I have done this before and had realtivey pleasant results. Blissful and colourful. But these last two times have kicked my ass to the dark side of the universe. Some apescts were like vaped spice in the sense i dont recall it all, but i do rememeber it was dark and it did not feel good at all.
The experience itself was almost identical to the last trip i had. I seemed to wake up in the experience not knowing where i was, how i got there or who all these people were. The strange thing was that i keep getting flashes of how i did get there i.e driving up to the ceremony, drinking the brew etc, so i kinda remembered by was really confused.
I was then in a turbulent dark place and my emotions were hijacked and were just gettin tossed around all over. I just had to sit it out again....hellish. All my memories of this reality were so so distant and my identity was gone.

The thing is,these dark/deep trips coincide with the fact that the dude has started brewing using distilled water. This has certainly had an effect on the potency of the brew, something which is also noticed by others. So i think for me its a combination of having a stronger brew aswell as using THH. I even took 3 datura.s seeds in an attempt to improve the colours in my visions, but they still remained very dark!!!

Im begining to think its just the nature of the brew i.e mimosa and rue. I have read from several places on here that the rue/mimosa is a tough teacher and can be a wild experience. Prehaps i should start exploring with caapi and chacruna, iv heard that these are much gentler/enlightening experiences.?

My original intention of taking thh with rue was an attempt to make the harmala profile more vine like aswell as the fact that i correctly suspected i need more MAO inhibition than others seem to.
This did work on a few occasions and i had experiences almost identical to times when i had smoked changa with caapi tea, but since brotherman has started brewing with distilled water, its seemed to have stripped the experience of all love.

Im not sure i wanna go to that place again.
What dyall reckon is goin on here?

last time i took pharma this same thing happened to me...it feels like you wake up into the experience with no identity and no idea how you got there...it all started with INSANE visuals...similar to smoked dmt...next thing i remember is running outside to puke..it was the only thing i could think to do..i puked a lot...then after i puked..my friend asked me if i was alright and what was going on...i told him i had no clue...i thought i had poisoned us..but i didnt know what we had taken...after about 2 hours my memories came back...the whole time i could talk fine but i didnt know where some of the words came from and whatnot..

this was on a usually very manageable dose...125mg THH 50mg harmine and 60mg dmt fumarate...the dmt was extracted with d-limo and salted out with FASW

this sort of thing has happened three times so far...and every time it does..its a huge surprise..but as soulman said...when you finally come back down..and get all of you back...you are SOO thankful to be alive

everything looks new...its kinda like a reset..scary and confusing as hell...but also absolutely amazing..

everytime this happens i have taken THH with it...

The first time the dreamer took mimosa and rue was actually the best and most powerful oral experience he's ever had. That was 12.5g whole mhrb and 5g rue (solids ingested too oops!) with lemon juice. Bright and powerful visions. The DMT component seems to hide the toxic feeling of the rue solids soon as soon as it comes on.

Rue was ruthless his second time, telling him all the negative things about his life and giving him a really depressing battering and he could not bring himself to finish drinking the light. That time was only 3g rue brew, no solids ingested, far less physical symptoms, with same amount of MHRB that was not finished, both cooked with vinegar instead of lemon juice that time.

This fits with what people say about rue, that it can be ruthless. But it has been wonderful too. SWIM thinks it can go either way, that rue is 'wild power'. I wonder if using vinegar instead of lemon juice made a difference, but more likely it was set and setting.

People do recommend the vine for beginners. Dreamer switched to the vine after that experience.

Ive been in a similar space before on rue and vaped spice. its like a multidimensional purgatory. At one point I got out of it by saying aloud household objects. WIth each word I came slowly back to this plane of existance.
It kicks your ass hard. another time I came out of the experience wondering what I was, feeling my nose to confirm by belief that i was human.

I'm talking out of my ass here but I don't see how using dH20 versus tap could have a difference unless chlorine does something to the brew

The water the ayahuasca ingredients are boiled in should be pure (distilled or reverse osmosis water is best). This is because minerals may limit the amount of DMT your body is able to absorb. Water with a pH of between 4.0 and 5.0 is best. Most people add some type of acid (like lemon juice) to lower the pH of the water

from http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/aya_01.htm

There are a bunch of us who regulalry attend these ceremonies and the distilled water thing is only a recent change. Everybody has commented on the increased potency of the brew.

Although like i say, it seems to be giving me dark experiences, but i cant work out whether its the distilled water or the thh suppliment!

soulman: aqueous chlorine forms free radicals (especially under boilling) which rip appart mollecules like DMT. Im guessing this is the cause of the apparent increase in potency. fuck "minerals may limit...", thats garbage.
Its a well known fact that typtamines do not like chlorine at all. thats why your liquid LSD is always dissolved in a little pure ethanol, and not water (even though it is soluble in water.)
p.s I inverted your avatar and saw your true face... bewhahaha

no, your not. Thats exactly the culprit. In The UK The water isn't flouridated, but say for a sec we were in america, well fluorine would also destroy tryptamines.

OK, well whether its the minerals or the chlorine, distilled water has certainly improved the potency of the brew like i said.
Thing is, i think its responsible for he darkness and confusion.
Last wknd, i took 150mg of THH ontop of the rue, followed by the jurema 20 minutes later. This gave me the experience i describeded above.
However, in previous ceremonies, when distilled water hadnt been used, i had taken the same dose of thh and had almost identical experiences to when i had smoked changa after caapi tea...very blissful and colourful.

So from this information, I can only conclude that either the distilled water has increased the bioavailability of dmt, so i am expeiencing higher dmt doses than im used to, or the distilled water has improved the rue extraction and i am goin deeper on the same dose of dmt, due to better inhinition from the harmalas....or a combination of both.

In any case, my last two experiencens have been ones that i dont particularly want to replicate, and im thinking from now I only wanna work with the vine and chacruna.....as iv heard these can be a little gentler!!!!! Is it true?

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I am against flouridated water all the way. However, because of its extremely high reactivity it is quite likely that it has bonded with minerals in the water already. Calcium is a component of 'hard' water and reacts with flourine to make calcium flouride( I think ). Not certain of its toxicity or what, but I think any flourine in the water will have long since attached itself to something. I myself have not ingested more than a gallon or two of tap water in almost twenty years. Mainly for fear of the reactivity of flourines' weaker brother chlorine. I found out much later about flouride and think its abominable that its in our water. Also, I've read that because of the size of flourine being just slightly smaller than that of H2O that neither filters nor distillation work to remove it. Best thing is to add something to react with it and nullify it.

Forgive the tangent, but I think people might find that useful.


Soulman, sorry to hijack. I am always glad to read your experiences and hope you find your personal ratios. Maybe a bit less THH. Usually equal amounts of Harmine and THH and a small amount of Harmaline.

I am camping soon and will be using the rue extract with a THH tamer. CANT WAIT!!!

Peace,


J
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Yep, i totally feel ya on the flouride thing bwana.
They put it in the water to dumb down the population, but dont worry, im just a paranoid conspiracy theorist!!

Anyway back on topic......dawg, tread carefully. After my last two experiences i cant really advocate the use of the term "tamer". Having said that though, i have had mixed experiences with thh. Im just tryna put my finger and what is causing such erractic fluctuations in my experiences. All fingers are pointing to the distilled water at the minute though!!!
Other drinkers of the brew reported good expereinces though, so i dont really understand why its just been fuckin me up!!!
Anywho, have fun camping brother

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Yeah, guess 'tamer' is subjective. I will ask if it is just swiy who is supplementing or if the whole group is following the same regimen. Not discounting your theory a bit. Water is so much more than just H2O as is certainly obvious...

I know for swim, when Pedro stops by, he will often bevel the edge with some subL THH (~25-30) and it works wonders. Usually a second supplement is not needed. Certainly more frugal than oral consumption and faster in onset. Perhaps starting swims aya sessions with less oral T and then supp'n with a subL dose might offer a tad bit more control. Just a thought.

The camping starts in a week or so. See you under the dome!

J

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Na its just me whos suplimenting.
If i dont, im at the other end of the spectrum and the most i get is a body load plus some hazy mosiac like shapes CEV. It seems like i need alot of inhibition.
Im tryna find a happy medium....last time i took 150mg as opposed to 200mg, and it still tipped me over the edge.

Quite like the idea of perhaps takin some mid-ceremony. Hate subL dosing though!!!

Loosing the concept of who we are is a rare gift.
It allows us to see who we are at the core, kind of like a dream but much more truthfull, and with much less constructs.