This was written up already, so it's been copied and pasted with some additions and updates.

6g Syrian Rue (split between 2 people)
85 mg spice oral (each)
60 mg spice smoked

A story about an odd experience. Roughly 6-7g of Syrian Rue was ground, simmered for 30 min with lemon juice, and ingested (split between Bob and Sarah). Solids were strained out, only liquid consumed. Thirty minutes later, 85mg of DMT (freebase, not salt - yes not ideal) was ingested via capsule, each. Bob had very little effect after an hour, so 60ish mg was smoked. Sarah felt nauseated within 30 min and did not smoke. She vomited a few times around T+ 90 min.

The smoking started a non-breakthrough interesting visual trip that quickly subsided but boosted off the rest of the experience. Sarah's trip included vomiting and generally not feeling well. CEVs but too distracted with stomach upset to enjoy. Bob's trip got weird. At first he got the "normal" humans are meat feeling that he's heard described from hallucinogens (he had not yet experienced it himself). Instead of seeing Sarah's naked body as beautiful it just looked biological and meaty. Before long the trip was too unpleasant to keep eyes open. Very dizzy/vertigo feeling.

In his head, visuals were there and not intense but he couldn't make coherent thoughts. Reality was wrong. Stuck on this concept, a mix of a sound (twang / boing), a colour (brown), the moment a ball hits the ground as it bounces, and a diagonal line that should be straight but it was heavily fragmented. And wrong. Everything was wrong, reality was wrong. Thoughts were wrong. There was no ability to process or analyze, if Bob tried to think of an apple his brain only showed him an orange. Like trying to use a computer but everything you do gives you a bluescreen. He thought he had possibly permanently damaged his brain. The inability to form thoughts was unlike anything he's ever experienced. The closest he can think of is being extremely drunk (15+ shots of tequila drunk), but even that's not right.

It came in waves, and when the wave receded a bit it wasn't as bad. It wasn't so much a "bad" experience as it was uncomfortable and annoying since coherent thoughts couldn't be made. Very little processing of information happened. The "worst" of it was 4-5 hours long with effects still being very noticeable for an additional 4+ hours. Bob has tried syrian rue before in light doses with no serious effects. Bob isn't very good at smoking DMT and usually gets CEVs but sometimes not. He may not have ever even broken through as the most intense experiences he's had (85+ mg in a Machine) were heavy but never feeling like a complete dissociation. Peering into another dimension, but not actually travelling there. Ganesha has offered Bob something (he never was sure of what) while on 1/4 blotter of LSD and smoking DMT. He's seen beautiful colours, mischievous jesters, geometric shapes folding on themselves, etc, but never felt 100% somewhere else.

Most of the time his experiences smoking DMT are pleasant though on occasion they've been more melancholy. Sarah's DMT experiences are almost always melancholy and not intense. The DMT he has he made himself via MHRB (recrystallized x2 w/ heptane), basic lye and naptha pulls. While not very experienced making it, he's had one on one instruction from a friend who is. Bob's oral dose was very yellow, Sarah's was white. Bob felt off for over a week afterward -- nothing severe, just felt weird. Hard to articulate.

Bob at first blamed the "wrong" feeling on the Rue as it was far more than he'd had previously, but a month later had a similar but minor and fleeting feeling of "wrong" after just smoking some DMT, no Rue involved. He recently tried a low dose of B. Caapi and 20mg DMT x 2 (30 min gap) dissolved in OJ. He realized eating the freebase form is not ideal but did not know this with his previous experience taking 85mg in a capsule. This recent experience was extremely minor and yielded no visual changes. He's searched for hours and read countless trip reports looking for something similar but to no avail. He has relatively little experience with hallucinogens having only taken LSD (<100 micrograms) a few times and mushrooms twice (1g dried each time -- fairly intense for him, near catatonic states of extreme muscle relaxation during the peak of each wave).

Therapeutic doses are more his interest, not "tripping balls", hence the interest in the teaching properties of DMT. He does understand 85 mg is a high dose, but with it taking so much to have significant CEVs via smoking he's unsure if possibly his product is impure or some other mistake was made in the production. The MHRB was very finely shredded, partly powder but not completely.

Bob is in his early 30s and started his experiences less than 6 months ago. No medications are present in his system and he has celiac disease (probably not relevant, although he's absolutely noticed a difference in trip experience when his immune system is affecting his brain). He weighs roughly 70kg.

Anyone here have a similar experience or could give Bob advice? It would be greatly appreciated! He's been very confused and focused on the "wrong" feeling. The incredible cognitive impairment made him feel like there was no benefit of the trip, it was simply like getting extremely drunk.


TL;DR: 85mg of oral DMT +Rue didn't break through, just waves of CEVs and complete inability to process information. Reality and everything was just "wrong". Anyone else experienced similar?


Thank you!

I would extract the harmalas via Tao of Rue tek. This to get the toxic compounds out so you won't have that interference in your work. A messy fun project with great rewards. I find if i really want to work on the level you describe that Changa is a great facilitator. If you live somewhere you can get everclear then the harmalas will dissolve well without need to double boil like IPA. Instead of trying fancy blends, at least at first, just use 1g mullien 500mg to 1g harmala and 1g spice.

I've definitely considered that the other compounds were the main cause (though it's odd that Bob had a fleeting similar feeling a month or two after by just smoking the DMT, no Rue was involved). Changa is next on the list of something to try. Would 99% IPA be better than Everclear? Or Acetone? Easily have either and I'm not sure the advantage of Everclear specifically.

Will look into the Tao of Rue. Thank you!

Next time, try putting the dmt in with the harmala tea, no delay between the two. Or put both together in a single capsule, though I have had better results (faster, more predictable onset) with liquids. Traditional ayahuasca brews are also a combination, not a caapi brew and then later a psychotria brew.

Raw rue tea can be a lot tougher on the gut than a reasonably purified extract. For women, there is also the issue with the uterotonic alkaloids such as vasicine. A Manske salting step eliminates almost all of these alkaloids.

No need to boil the everclear. Harmalas won't dissolve in IPA unless you heat it thus adding a fire hazard if you do not have the proper set-up. See the changa section for the best info.