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THC Acetate; Acetylated THC Options
 
damiana
#1 Posted : 10/10/2009 11:47:55 PM
So I found out that THC converted to a salt, acetate in this case, is more potent.

Quote:
I read somewhere about a guy in Florida who's house got raided and they found him making acetylated cannobanoids. Apperently he reacted purified hash oil with glacial acetic acid. They said the modified cannobanoids were twice as potent as normal cannobanoid oil. Has anyone heard of chemically modifying cannobanoids before? I also read something about a phospate salt of THC that is water soluble, making it possible to snort it or absorb it under the tongue, and theoretically, cannobanoid salts will not test positive for marijuana.


The reason I am interested is, one, it's more potent, and two, I could snort it.

Does anyone have any idea of how to make THC acetate? Would putting Keef in heptane, boiled in a crock pot and salted with vinegar work? Here is one way I read.

Quote:
Direct isomerization

Sometimes if pot is totally rank and crappy, or you're dealing with a bunch of roaches, trimmings, or some other inferior source of THC it is desirable to go well beyond what a simple volatile solvent or super critical fluid extraction can do. You want to convert all those free available cannibidiols into more potent THC analogs and cannabinols.

This technique also will render a fully decarboxylized end product, as well as destroying many terpenes and aromatics which can improve or destroy a product depending on the original quality. It is important to understand this is not a full conversion to ƒ´9-THC, but to THC analogs and more active cannibidiols, and is included in this discussion more as an educational exercise. Basic isomerization takes place with a quick reflux of your cannabinoids in the presence of any H+ source (acid).

1. Treat your stuff as if it were a volatile solvent or critical fluid extraction.
2. With the remaining resin, dissolve it in a non-polar solvent. Be sure to use one that separates easily from water such as naphia or white gas.
3. Treat this mixture with sulphuric or hydrochloric acid until a pH around 1-2 is reached (approximately one drop of concentrated acid per gram of extract).
4. Place this in a reflux apparatus and cook it for about an hour. In case you¡¦re not familiar this is basically just Pyrex breaker with a large looped tube plugged into the top. This will cause the solution inside to be exposed to elevated pressures as well as temperatures, as well as preserving all of the original contents. Simply simply boiling the mixture in a small strong covered vessel can mimic it.
5. Wash what¡¦s left with water, keep the oil layer.
6. Neutralize your mix (bring it to pH 7.0) with a little Sodium Hydroxide solution (pH 9.0) or baking soda then rewash it with water. Save the oil layer again.
7. Allow your oil to evaporate and you should be left with a sticky amber liquid that contains almost pure THC.

I would recommend an extraction for a starting point, since if you start clean your product can only get much better. Once you¡¦ve obtained nearly pure THC, converting it to an acetate is supposed to produce more psychedelic like effects.

More THC analog modifications can be made (to yield pure ƒ´9 or ƒ´6 THC), but generally the consumption of the original products in these reactions makes them hardly worth while (usually 5-20% yield, so it may be half as psychoactive but you have 5 times as much of it in the beginning).


Any ideas on how to get THC Acetate. Thought this would be fun to consider. Maybe eventually the nexus can get a marijuana space where only marijuana is discussed. How to convert it to other carbonoids and THC forms could be discussed. Well if anyone has input that would be great.

~damiana
PEACE
 
fourthripley
#2 Posted : 10/10/2009 11:59:40 PM
Quote:
Does anyone have any idea of how to make THC acetate? Would putting Keef in heptane, boiled in a crock pot and salted with vinegar work?


No. Acetylisation is a process using the rather dangerous- and watched- acetic anhydride. Isomerisation is a different thing. The book 'Cannabis Alchemy' by D. Gold is a good place to startSmile
mistakes were made
 
damiana
#3 Posted : 10/11/2009 12:58:11 AM
Yeah I saw this forum: http://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=3977 I don't think it was talking about what I am interested in, though I glimpsed the posts. That Book By D. Gold sounds like he would know, but I'm guessing his audience is professional chemists, it doesn't really cater to the homemade chemist. I'll check it out none the less.
PEACE
 
dread
#4 Posted : 10/11/2009 2:49:03 AM
bit of nitpicking here but

Quote:
So I found out that THC converted to a salt, acetate in this case, is more potent.


Actually it's not a salt. THC is not an alkaloid and doesn't form salts. THC-O-acetate is actually an ester. The same way 4-aco-dmt is the acetate ester of psilocin. You could actually call this 1-aco-THC...

You will need acetic anhydride to acetylate it. Acetyl chloride may also work, but acetic acid is not strong enough to acetylate aromatic alcohols.
 
damiana
#5 Posted : 10/11/2009 3:02:24 AM
Cool beans, good to know. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
PEACE
 
Infundibulum
ModeratorChemical expert
#6 Posted : 10/11/2009 3:22:46 AM
dread wrote:
bit of nitpicking here but

Quote:
So I found out that THC converted to a salt, acetate in this case, is more potent.


Actually it's not a salt. THC is not an alkaloid and doesn't form salts. THC-O-acetate is actually an ester

acetyl, to be more precise with terminology, not acetate. Like acetylmorphine and acetylsalicylic acid (and not morphine acetate or salicylic acid acetate).

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
MagikVenom
#7 Posted : 10/11/2009 4:07:15 AM
Direct isomerization I have tried this ten different ways and it is never any better that a butane honey oil extraction. Not sure why that is I have read that isomerization also occurs when thc is dissolved in butane the molecules rotate themselves. So this makes sense if the butane DOES indeed cause isomerization. This whole isomerization thing seems a little fishy. None of my many experements turned out the way the results were supposed to be according to many online texts

Any thoughts on this anyone? pretty sure its not my tek or teks because i tried many and repeated many experementes twice with same results. Butane honey oil is always just as potent and tastes a lot better that any product of any of the isomerization teks.


PEACE
MV
 
damiana
#8 Posted : 10/11/2009 4:22:33 AM
I don't know much about isomerization so I'm of little help.

Quote:
Butane honey oil


Is this pretty potent stuff? Do you smoke it or is it only for eating? Is there a tek somewhere for this that you know of? Thanks.
PEACE
 
dread
#9 Posted : 10/11/2009 2:36:11 PM
Butane honey oil is made by running butane through plant matter. You make a cylindircal container, with small holes in the bottom, and a single hole in the top where you insert the butane can. You put the MJ in the container and run butane through it. The butane pressurizes into a liquid, and picks up the oil, and drips out from the bottom holes. When the butane/oil mix warms to room temperature again the butane vaporizes and leaves honey oil.

Honey oil can be smoked, vaporized or eaten.
 
Touche Guevara
#10 Posted : 10/11/2009 4:13:24 PM
damiana wrote:
I don't know much about isomerization so I'm of little help.

Quote:
Butane honey oil


Is this pretty potent stuff? Do you smoke it or is it only for eating? Is there a tek somewhere for this that you know of? Thanks.

It's probably the most highly regarded THC extraction method used today. Tokecity has a lot of info on it.
 
damiana
#11 Posted : 10/11/2009 7:30:27 PM
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful.
PEACE
 
Touche Guevara
#12 Posted : 10/11/2009 8:06:59 PM
Here is a decent Youtube video that shows the Butane Honey Oil (BHO, not to be confused with any sitting President of the United States) process.
 
director of sound
#13 Posted : 3/19/2011 1:23:47 AM
hmm i wonder about tossing your THC in dry DCM(really dry fresh distilled over NaOH) with glacial acetic acid and a catalytic ammount of acetamide.... could work and the acetamide would be pulled away by the water wash along with the acetic acid. leaving the acetylated THC in the DCM and a simple evap would give you your product. use of a dehydrating agent (like an alkali metal, PO5 or conc. H2SO4) would form acetic anhydride in situ to react with the THC so acetamide may not be needed if you can get your hands on a strong dehydrating agent. i would imagine it would be a room temp or even cooled rxn. test runs would have to be done to see if cold/hot is better. i may have to try this as i have legal access to all these chemicals.
"because it is who i am...... i strive with all my soul to see the unimaginable the ineffable and the mysterious"
 
director of sound
#14 Posted : 3/19/2011 11:48:21 PM
a catalytic amount of a lewis acid might work too. though a strong nucleophile like an amine may still be needed. this is all possable for the home chemist too, look around korean food stores for the glacial acetic acid/acetic anhydride. i pick mine up as 99% acetic acid (accually crystallized in the bottle) at about $1.25 for 100ml. acetamide is cheap and easy to get without raising any flags and even diethylamine might work which is easily made from a base hydrolysis of DEET, ive preformed this before and got excellent yields from 40g NaOH to 175ml DEET and 25ml 70% ethyl alcohol, heat and distill out the diethylamine. this is looking more and more duable, the procedure described is a modified steglich esterification (SE). a regular SE uses DMAP or 4-N,N-dimethylaminopyridine as a catalyst and nucleophile but still forms the intermediat Aco-ester between the acid using the amine as the nucleophile, the DMAP only speeds up the rxn letting one accomplish in in an hour or so rather than about 12. DMAP although being a nucleophile is also a lewis acid so ZnCl2 or another lewis acid could be used in place of the DMAP as a catalyst.
"because it is who i am...... i strive with all my soul to see the unimaginable the ineffable and the mysterious"
 
Potter
#15 Posted : 3/24/2011 8:41:39 PM
I'd like to mention I've heard there are some SERIOUS flaws in the book THC Alchemy and following certain sets of directions step by step will, more likely then not, blow your house to hell. It concern cooking off a volatile solvent, but I do not recall the actual flaw. This book should not be used by anyone untrained in using a glove box and working with volatile solvents. Repeat: Following the directions in this book step by step could very easily be lethal to you and everyone around you!

Other then that it's a fantastic book with all sorts of innovative ideas that have been pretty much ignored for the past four decades.
 
taureanirishman
#16 Posted : 3/28/2011 12:59:24 AM
Found this in Wikipedia(so you know it's true Pleased

THC-O-acetate
THC acetate ester is a derivative of THC which has been found by the DEA as an apparent controlled substance analogue of THC. It was apparently made by extracting and purifying THC from cannabis plant material using a soxhlet extractor, followed by reaction with acetic anhydride in an analogous manner to how heroin is made from morphine.[1] A similar case was reported in June 1995 in the UK and THC-O-acetate was ruled to be a Class A drug.[2] THC acetate was also reported to have been found by New Zealand police in 1995, again made by acetylation of purified cannabis extracts with acetic anhydride.[3] The acetylation of THC does not change the properties of the compound to the same extent as with other acetate esters (e.g. morphine vs heroin), as the parent compound is already highly lipophilic, but potency is nonetheless increased to some extent.[citation needed] This derivative of THC is interesting as one of the few analogues of THC to have been encountered as a recreational drug sold and used in a highly pure smokable form.

Systematic (IUPAC) name
O-acetyl-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol
Identifiers
CAS number 23132-17-4
ATC code ?
PubChem CID 198013
ChemSpider 171383 Yes
Chemical data
Formula C23H32O3
Mol. mass 356.498 g/mol
SMILES eMolecules & PubChem
InChI[show]
Therapeutic considerations
Pregnancy cat. ?
Legal status Class A (UK)
Yes(what is this?) (verify)

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Having enjoyed butane honey oil made from very well cared for buds I would have a hard time validating the process of this conversion given the cost of the solvent and the raw materials....

HOWEVER

IF one had access to a decent volume of trim/trim leaves and scraps, along with a LARGE tank of CO2(which also acts like a super-critical solvent when injected as a liquid, and DOES extract the appropriate oils) then a large enough quantity of extract could be had to end up with a decent volume of THC-o-acetate, accounting for losses in processing....
Needless to say SWIM is talking to friends at a welding shop to see about getting a volume of CO2 with the appropriate fitting to allow the tank to empty upside-down and purge the liquid into a properly constructed extraction container....
 
Lodi
#17 Posted : 3/28/2011 6:42:31 AM
What a wonderful idea...
Everything I say is fictional, I do not support illegal drug use of any kind, SWIM is a fictional character.


 
 
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