The great modern sage Sri Aurobindo advises us not to be overly concerned with how the Gita was understood in the past, but that we should extract from it the living truths that meet our own spiritual need (-baghavad gita; shri purohi swami; page xvii)

BHAGAVAD GITA



Chapter 11, Verse 1

Arjuna said: I have heard Your instruction on confidential spiritual matters which You have so kindly delivered unto me, and my illusion is now dispelled.

Chapter 11, Verse 2

O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity, as realized through Your inexhaustible glories.

Chapter 11, Verse 3

O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see here before me Your actual position, I yet wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.

Chapter 11, Verse 4

If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that universal self.

Chapter 11, Verse 5

The Blessed Lord said: My dear Arjuna, O son of Pṛthā, behold now My opulences, hundreds of thousands of varied divine forms, multicolored like the sea.

Chapter 11, Verse 6

O best of the Bhāratas, see here the different manifestations of Ādityas, Rudras, and all the demigods. Behold the many things which no one has ever seen or heard before.

Chapter 11, Verse 7

Whatever you wish to see can be seen all at once in this body.This universal form can show you all that you now desire, as well as whatever you may desire in the future. Everything is here completely.



Chapter 11, Verse 8

But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence.



Chapter 11, Verse 9

Sa�jaya said: O King, speaking thus, the Supreme, the Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna.



Chapter 11, Verse 10-11

Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths and unlimited eyes. It was all wondrous. The form was decorated with divine, dazzling ornaments and arrayed in many garbs. He was garlanded gloriously, and there were many scents smeared over His body. All was magnificent, all-expanding, unlimited. This was seen by Arjuna.

Chapter 11, Verse 12

If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

Chapter 11, Verse 13

At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.

Chapter 11, Verse 14

Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna began to pray with folded hands, offering obeisances to the Supreme Lord.

Chapter 11, Verse 15

Arjuna said: My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see assembled together in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahmā sitting on the lotus flower as well as Lord Śiva and many sages and divine serpents.

Chapter 11, Verse 16

O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms-bellies, mouths, eyes-expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this.

Chapter 11, Verse 17

Your form, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs, is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, which is fiery and immeasurable like the sun.

Chapter 11, Verse 18

You are the supreme primal objective; You are the best in all the universes; You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest; You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead.

Chapter 11, Verse 19

You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance You are heating this entire universe.

Chapter 11, Verse 20

Although You are one, You are spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, as I behold this terrible form, I see that all the planetary systems are perplexed.

Chapter 11, Verse 21

All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns.

Chapter 11, Verse 22

The different manifestations of Lord Śiva, the Ādityas, the Vasus, the Sādhyas, the Viśvadevas, the two Aśvins, the Māruts, the forefathers and the Gandharvas, the Yakṣas, Asuras, and all perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder.

Chapter 11, Verse 23

O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I.

Chapter 11, Verse 24

O all-pervading Viṣṇu, I can no longer maintain my equilibrium. Seeing Your radiant colors fill the skies and beholding Your eyes and mouths, I am afraid.


http://asitis.com/11/

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It goes on from there, though I'm not going to make a mile long post by pasting the whole chapter, sorry it's as long as it is, though these were some of the key parts that first caught my attention, I first read this chapter shortly after my first DMT breakthrough, synchronicity placed the book in my possession.

The Hindu faiths admits to having an entheogen, called "soma" but it was never identified, theories range from epherda, ergotized beer, amanita muscaria, and psilocybe cubensis, to peganum harmala seeds or a yet to be discovered ayahuasca analogue involving them...I feel wasson knew that soma was not amanita muscaria, and later may have came to admit it.
He made a great case that soma was a mushroom...but amanita muscaria is rare or non-existent in India while psilocybe cubensis is extremely common and could be easily and readily found.

But that's another story. I think wasson May have had reservations regarding publishing this, specially after what happened in Oaxaca after he published the first article regarding Maria Sabina and the psilocybe fungi of Mexico, the place was over run, and wasson really had very little respect for these "beatniks" and "drug seekers", wasson had extreme respect for the sacredness of the mushroom...

I won't get into this here though...

Though I'm confident soma was stropharia consensus...

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Gordon Wasson, who initially suggested that the soma plant was Amanita muscaria, described Psilocybe cubensis as "easily identified and gathered" in India, and eventually hypothesized, along with Mckenna, that Psilocybe cubensis was perhaps the true identity of soma. Mckenna and Wasson both unsuccessfully attempted to use Amanita muscaria to achieve a state of consciousness conducive to the development of a religion

The 9th mandala of the Rigveda suggests that the cow is the embodiment of soma, which provides support for Mckenna's theory because Psilocybe cubensis is known to grow in cow dung

-Wikipedia

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There are still cannabis using hindu sects in india, often follows of shiva called "sadhus", wandering holy men who have renounced the ways of the world...I've always wondered why these people would not be using the mushroom as well, bos indicus cattle are widespread in India, and the experience synchronizes with their spirituality and texts perfectly...



-eg

always good to review the gita, entheogenic-gnosis.. thank you

i see the gita as the spiritual field manual of the battle of life, of intent, focus and action of the warrior (of truth), the tool of spirit (krisna), ultimately beyond visions or rational comprehension..arjuna needs a lot of workshopping to surrender
..it's message - 'do not suffer over things which are not worth suffering over'..

i feel it's more about the 'objective' than any particular method (ritual, yoga, meditation, entheogens, tantra etc)

..soma is something i've looked at a lot of the years, and will be publishing some things relating to it and the vedas (and other things) in the next year, and probably a talk or two..
for now, i'd point that, from all my readings, the vedic and puranic texts often praise the cow for it's milk, and the soma is prepared with milk, or ghee, and honey...this is stated many times...as well as the pressing of the stalks of the plant..
to cut a long story short, and to get near where my conclusions were, there are a few kinds of soma..

back to the Bhagavad Gita, i was always fond of Ch.18 verse 66:
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
sarva-dharman parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksayisyami ma sucah

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear."

.

Great response, very insightful



This is a great way to put it, and something I may not have fully considered.

as far as the spiritual texts go, it says in my translation of the gita (as well as my initial post)
, so if I can use it to relate to entheogens, if I can come closer to the "objective" with this interpretation than I'm using the gita properly...I think my mistake was almost discounting other routes to this same objective.

As far as history goes I'm convinced psilocybe cubensis, cannabis, peganum harmala, even meditation and yoga are all great candidates, and it very May well have been a combination of plant entheogens and spiritual practices... possibly soma was never identified because anything that could aide you in reaching the objective could be considered soma!


Any way, thank you,

-eg

I've spent all morning reviewing chapter 3 of the gita, I could list a series of verses but I'm afraid without proper context it may be hard for another to understand why I considered these verses significant...

I'll try I suppose;



It was explained in the annotations of my gita (shri purohi swami translation) that;



Then I found a few other related verses...





Tim Leary's mistake was telling everybody "tune in, turn on, drop out "...and when reading the verses above it becomes obvious why Leary failed...



They also relate a good deal to my personal situation, but again, without the context it would be difficult to articulate and would not mean much to others...

Chapter 3 of the gita is great, and on this particular day and point in my life, it was rich with meaning, so much so it was as if the gita was speaking directly to me personally, the advice was that well suited to my situation...it's funny how I don't even think about the gita during times when I would not be receptive to it...but at times when the gita appears in my life, coincidentally I get an amazing amount from it...

There's a ton in gita regarding "proper action", specifically in moral dilemmas...just as was the case in the story behind the gita...;
the battle is about to happen, brothers and friends are setting up against brothers and friends, arjuna is in a chariot between both armies, when, arjuna can't do it, and he throws his weapon to the ground, at which point a conversation in between Krishna and arjuna occurs, this is the gita...


For advice regarding the proper action regarding conflict, regarding spirituality, and regarding advice on how to travel the path you have chosen, the gita is a treasure...

I'm getting too much into my personal feelings rather than the gita or its message, so I'll bring things to a close.



-eg

Texts like the Gita and (my personal soft spot) the Yoga Vasistha are magical. They meet the intellect at its current level and reveal deeper and deeper layers as it becomes subtler and subtler. The meaning gleaned evolves with every review.

entheogenic-gnosis, i'm really glad you're getting into it ..and getting all of us to..



..i think this is a very wise and sensible interpretation..
i tend to agree...
and then question myself as to what am i doing here at the Nexus..

zhoro (hello) puts it very well:



..the gita has been a very powerful work for thousands of years, and still 'speaks', like other ancient gleans of wisodm..

I could not agree more, it does "speak", you could almost consider it a "living" text in this sense. it seems to meet you at on the level you are on at that time, and advises you accordingly, it's like having a live sage for consultation on these matters, a beautiful work.

(I also consider the I ching to have properties similar to the ones described for the gita, but I suppose that's fir another thread.

The gita, the Mahabharata, and the rigveda have been valuable aides in my spiritual practice as well as my daily life.

The gita is timeless, and the advice given by Sri aurobindo holds true even today (quoted below).



-eg

Step by step, they skillfully coax the raving outgoing action-bound bull of the mind, hungry for experiences, knowledge, understanding, status, etc. back to its resting shed, whose portal is the "ME" sense.

(hi brother nen :-))

I read the Gita a few months ago and have become amazed by it ever since.

I mostly agree with you so forgive me to highlight the one point where I have to doubt:


I think entheogens are a method of entering the transcendental state, but there are many other ways of achieving the state that the Bhagavad Gita speaks of.

Moreover don't think that the entire game is to enter into this state. Don't forget chapter 3 on Karma Yoga. It's not enough to just "get high" (whether on DMT, meditating, or sitting on a bed of nails) ... you have to actually go out into the world and do the dance. The trick is, according to the Gita, to perform your prescribed duties without attachment to their fruits.

..concur with Glossolalia on Karma Yoga, method and the gita

it's said by many old sages of vedanta that one cannot attain liberation without karma yoga, and the duties of helping others and life..as as well clarity of intellect is required (developed with methods like raja yoga)
various tools or techniques help towards the goal, towards dispassion, towards truth..

and only with true surrender can Karma be understood, let alone accepted and balanced..
.

I have been going to India for my job for the past year now--4th journey in March! I have become very fascinated by Hinduism. One of my lifelong goals is to gain some insight to all religion because I believe they all share a common ground-- common beginning and I also believe that to be intertwined with the spirit/plant realm. I have a copy of Baghvad Gita and started reading it. Very mystical story. I'm going to bookmark this page because I like some of the thoughts posted. That is really al I chimed in to say. I feel ,y consciousness moving in this direction--haven't been on this site in over a year and the first active topic I see is regarding the Gita. Pretty cool.

this is quite apt for the vision seen in nirvikalpa samadhi where all manifestation dissolves, all filters are removed and all disappears leaving the naked infinite supreme self

the moment of dissolution reveals something beyond form sublimely simple simultaneously infinitely complex, indeed grand beyond all measure. you get an idea of its irresistible nature as the absolute reality from which all derives existence. smoked dmt takes you far but this is one arises from the endogenous kundalini process and is to my present knowledge as high as one can psychedelically go other than death itself.

https://lecubiste.wordpr...pa-and-the-unseen-world/

Great insight.

As shamanism is my central spiritual focus I must admit that I have higher affinity for deriving gnosis through the Entheogenic experience, rather than by other means.

I have been having philosophical qualms regarding my path as a hermit, and as to what the correct action in this situation actually may be.

I must act, this is certain, as chapter 3 of the gita explains (the path of action: karma yoga)

Verse 4: no man can attain freedom from activity by refraining from action, nor can one reach perfection by merely refusing to act

Verse 5: he can not even for a moment remain really inactive, for the qualities of nature will compelling him to act whether he will or not.

Annotation: freedom from activity: naishkarmya, the calm state of "actionless action" enjoyed by those who are with out desire.
Such persons may not be active in the world, but their very presence helps others however naishkarmya does not necessarily mean inactivity, it means action free from the binding sense as ones self as the "doer" the objective of spiritual advancement is not so much works, but the quality of life free from ego-consciousness (meher baba)

Chapter 3 of the gita verses 11-17 offer some insight, but overall I'm still having issues with what the correct coarse of action is, there seems to be contradictory advice in this area...

I'm a reclusive person, not completely a hermit, but close, and this has been brining up philosophical and spiritual issues for me...

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The shaman is a very peculiar figure. He is critical to the functioning of the psychological and social life of his community, but in a way he is always peripheral to it. He lives at the edge of the village. He is only called upon in matters of great social crisis. He is feared and respected. And this might be a description of these hallucinogenic substances
anthropologists have always made the point about shaman that they were very important social catalysts in their group but they were always peripheral to it, peripheral to the political power and actually usually physically peripheral, living at some distance from the village.- terence mckenna

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-eg

I think I may have actually hit onto something here...

Why was soma never identified?



I've been looking into this conclusion, and it does seem far more plausible than many of the others...



-eg

^..the soma is never identified..though it is usally described as a plant

i don't think it was meant to be specifically identified,
nor do i think knowledge of it is neccessarily lost entirely in all corners of Indian lore..
levels of secrecy are maintained in places..often to protect these things, or people..
my research points to a few kinds of soma..

i think it is as one may use the term 'entheogen', but i agree entheogenic-gnosis, potentially broader than the common useage of that word

the vedas (and sanskrit), like zhoro expresses, have deepening (and multiple) layers and levels..
.

In reality I'm convinced soma was stropharia cubensis



...sorry to go off on a soma rant, I'm sure you know much more than I do in this area, but after my minimal research into the topic I've reached the above conclusions.

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There's no alternative in the west for "dropouts" like myself,

Had I become one of these "acid victims" Thompson spoke of? Or worse yet was I playing the role of Leary in that quotation?



you can't live as a "sadhu" and be considered a "holy man" in America, in the United states your considered a "homeless man" when you live this way, and are not treated as a spiritual renunciate, but are treated as a person who doesn't have their life or mind in order.

My hermitage centered in babylon was a failed experiment...Though I'm also facing philosophical and spiritual qualms regarding just packing up and heading for the hills, abandoning humanity...

I'll continue to study and stay focused on my spirituality and surely the answers will come.

-eg

entheogenic, chapter 3 verse 25 of the gita.

As the ignorant perform their duties with attachments to results, so the learned may also act, but without attachment, for the sake of leading people on the right path.

I have had a drastic change in how I perceive the world since late last year. I have many ego driven friends, whom love discussing what Tom Ford to buy next and idolising the wealth of the super wealthy, it is easier for me to withdraw and associate with only like minded people, but I have reached a conclusion that it is wrong.

I believe that we as a community have something truly amazing, we don't play into the illusion that success is measured by greed and material possessions, we find success in inner peace, love and happiness. It is strange because I believe that there is no meaning of life and that all peoples will end up in the same place regardless, yet I feel some sort of obligation to help others during my temporal existence on this planet. I think to remove yourself from society is in some way an action derived at with the self in mind.

All in all, I think you have something beautiful to share and it would be a shame to hide it.

Luke 8:16
"No one lights a lamp and hides it in a clay jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, they put it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light."

In this case I'm leaning towards following the example of mckennas archetypal shaman figure, coupled with advice from other sources...

I feel it's appropriate to retreat from the boarders of Babylon to seek refuge amongst Gaia, but that to completely cut myself off from humanity would be a selfish act...



Keeping all this on mind, it seems appropriate to take my retreat, but to remain open to those who are receptive. I'll remain open to those who seek me out...

Though I can't say there is absolutely no value in the life of the mountain hermit, living off nature, writing haikus on cave walls far from the eyes of any reading being, living a spiritual life in solitude, there is value in this path as well...



...I still have much study and contemplation before I'll be able to determine the correct coarse of action, but as the quotes from the gita quoted above state, "a wise man should not perturb the minds of the ignorant" and as the annotation explains it's also explained how "Such persons may not be active in the world, but their very presence helps others"





-eg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvgkUw42c04

Back to the soma bit, in the link above from "an idiot abroad" Carl, while in India, visits a modern hari-Krishna cow sanctuary, where he is shown the many products they produce from the dung of their sacred bos indicia cattle...

Again, even in modern times, to think these people would not notice (and use) the dinner plate sized stropharia cubensis mushrooms sprouting from their cow dung, which is an essential material for the production of many goods, is absurd, they must have noticed and used this fungi...

So why is there no cultural or historical record of stropharia cubensis use in india?

-eg

Just a little bit more on my position regarding stropharia cubensis as the best candidate for soma

(Sorry for the off-topic soma talk)



Here wasson states how the psychedelic coprophilic fungi are easily identified and collected, are known to the common people, and above all else he states they are "effective", a comment he was never able to apply to amanita muscaria.



This is very important to note (above).

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(An article discussing a textile depicting stropharia cubensis and it's connection to soma)
(Picture attached is from article)

in 2009. A team from the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography SB RAS, which was led by Natalia Polosmak, was performing archaeological excavations in the Noin-Ula Mountains, Northern Mongolia. In tumulus 31, at a depth of 13 meters, the archaeologists discovered a wooden burial chamber. On the floor, which was covered with a thick layer of blue clay, around an old tomb ruined by ancient robbers, there were visible traces of a woollen fabric; this was all that was left of an embroidered strip, which was of great historical value even in this fragmentary state. Textiles are virtually never preserved in ancient graves, and such findings are exceptionally rare. The remains of the textile were retrieved from the grave and delivered to the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography SB RAS. The second life of this remarkable artefact began thanks to Russian restorers.
The craftsmanship and the story unfolding on the threadbare fabric are truly amazing. Embroidered in woollen thread on the thin cloth is a procession of Zoroastrian warriors marching towards an altar; one of them, standing at the altar, is holding a mushroom in his hands.
A distinguishing feature of this embroidery is that the craftsmen did their best to depict the faces, costume, arms, plants, and insects, trying to copy everything from life. According to the mycologist I.A. Gorbunova (Candidate of Biology, senior researcher with the Inferior Plant Laboratory, Central Siberian Botanical Garden, SB RAS), the mushroom depicted on the carpet belongs to the Strophariaceae family. In some ways—the general habitus, shape of the cap, stitches along the edge of the cap reminding of the radial folding or remnants of the partial veil and dark inclusions on the stipe that can remind of a paleaceous ring, which blackens after the spores are puffed—it is similar to Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer [Stropharia cubensis Earle]. Some of the mushrooms of the genus Stropharia cubensis, or Psilocybe cubensis, contain psilocybin—a unique stimulator of the nervous system. In their psychoactive properties, psilocybin mushrooms are much more befitting as vegetative equivalents of Soma, or Hoama, than fly agaric, which was identified with Soma in the Rigveda by R.G. Wasson in his well-known book. His point of view was supported by many famous scientists; the psychedelic theory proposed by T. McKenna even assigns the main role in human evolution to psilocybin-containing mushrooms.
For the first time, we can see vivid evidence, embroidered on an ancient cloth discovered by archaeological excavations, for the use of mushrooms for religious purposes, probably, to make Haoma, a “sacred drink.”

http://scfh.ru/en/news/w...oma-we-became-immortal-/

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The ancient world seems to be full of mystical Entheogenic liquids prepared from unknown sources, from soma to kykeon of the eleusian mysteries...

-eg