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Phalaris alkaloid seperation technique critique, and indoor Phalaris growing questions Options
 
Willeh
#1 Posted : 11/10/2015 2:46:50 AM
Greetings to everyone out here on the DMT-Nexus. I have been a member and observer for a long time and this site has been invaluable in my understanding and integration of DMT experiences I have had prior to my discovery of this community. I'm a rather introverted person and while I've wanted to post frequently, I haven't felt the need to 'bother' the forum with my ramblings or simple questions. I'm hoping to become a more active member around here when I can contribute, but this is my first post. I was introduced to DMT by a friend and have had roughly 20 or 30 experiences with DMT extracted from Mimosa over the passed two years. Only the first time and one other time I have had breakthrough experiences. I definitely got a good scare out of my first trip, it wasn't a hyperslap but it was as full of an experience as anyone could of hoped for. Complete disembodiment, entity contact, perceived death. I only liked to bio-assay small doses after that, though one day I'd like to go there again. I was always grateful for whatever dose I was gifted and after my first one my friend was much more cautious with dosing me. The well of spice and bark has dried up and my friend has no interest in pursuing spice anymore so I am now starting on my own adventure into this world of spice extraction. Regrettably, I have minimal knowledge of gardening or chemistry so I have a few questions. This molecule has inspired me to learn a lot.

Anyways, I'm hoping to get advice on this theoretical pathway for relatively straight NN-DMT from cultivated Phalaris Brachystachys. I live in Canada and I hear bark typically will not get through customs. I don't know anyone with a clone of AQ1 or Big Medicine, and I'm not in with any communities. Therefor, I think Portuguese Phalaris Brachystachys from seed is the highest alkaloid grass available to me. Fourthripley's PDF found in this thread is extremely useful in starting to build up the knowledge I need for extraction and cultivation but I've still got some uncertainties as I want to do some things he didn't and I hope you guys can shed some light on them. I also fully realize this is a lot less straightforward, unexplored and is more involved than root-bark extractions. I'm not in it for the destination as much as the journey.

1. Alkaloid separation technique-
I want at least partial separation of 5-meo and NN-DMT. I'm scared of 5-meo-dmt. I'll gladly keep the 5-Meo and maybe even one day blend them, but I want that beautiful colorful NN-Dmt I love and know. From what I understand the Brachystachys has a few phenotypes that produce different alkaloids and knowing which is which from seed would be impossible.
The KISS method I that was suggested was to make a DIY sealed non-vacuum cold finger condenser using a flask, and test tube with ice. The completed but non-separated Phalaris crystals would be dropped in the flask. Then, using PTFE tape to make a grommet the test tube would be dropped in mouth of the flask. The test tube will always have fresh ice in it. The flask would be heated carefully with a hotplate and IR thermometer, carefully raising the temperature of the glass itself to around 160c or whatever the lowest temperature that starts to produce vapors and condensate on the finger. Then, after some time (30 mins?) or so at the minimum temperature, the crystals condensed on the cold finger should be primarily NN-dmt/nmt with the majority of 5-Meo/bufo left on the bottom of the flask.
Does this technique sound alright? If 5meoDMTs boiling point is only a little higher than nns point, is some 5-meo at risk of following/evaporating with the DMT onto the cold finger? I read 5-meo shouldn't boil until 200c or so at atmospheric pressure. Will a lot of my tryptamines all get oxidized and destroyed? Would the blue/purple hue of a Ehrlich Reagent be accurate enough to tell if most of the 5-meo is gone or will I need a TLC kit?

2. Indoor gardening questions: I want to grow a bit of the Brachystachys on a tray indoors for fun and learning. The winter season is just starting and I don't think new growth would be able to cultivate outdoors for a while. This tray would be ornamental and probably not big enough to produce any real tryptamines, and I'm not hard up if I don't get any tryptamines. I hear Brachystachy are hard to germinate, I'm planning on trying to germinate on a sunny windowsill. Any chance a British Columbian windowsill would cut it? Can it grow under CFLs, or would a small HPS/MH be necessary?. Which brings me to my last gardening question: Here in BC it's pretty mild when should/could I plant some pots outside?

For whoever may be out there with more knowledge on any these things than me and the patience and time to give me any sort of advice or elaboration on anything here, I have an open mind and I'm eager to learn. If anyone has an answer to any of these questions but doesn't want to answer them all, I'll take whatever information you have. Thanks for reading or replying Big grin
 
1ce
#2 Posted : 11/10/2015 4:35:49 PM
The winters are very long and cold where I live. I had great sucess in using 450nm LED lighting to grow my phalaris.
 
dreamer042
Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless
#3 Posted : 11/10/2015 7:35:42 PM
As far as I know brachy will either be n,n or 5-meo but generally does not contain both so you shouldn't really have to worry about separation just about finding the right seed stock for your desired compound. IME (at least on a plate) n,n and 5-meo react differently to ehrlich (DMT reacting moar pink and 5-MEO moar purple).

Windowsill should be fine for seed sprouting, just keep the tray warm and humid like sprouting any other seeds. The grass will overwinter fine in a sunny windowsill, it will also do fine under simple flouro's or cheap LED's or what have you, no need to get fancy expensive cannabis style lighting for phalaris. In BC you should probably be able to leave the grass outdoors year round, but you may want to bring it indoors or set up a cold frame or something on really cold nights when there is danger of frost/freeze.

Hope that helps, best of luck in your grass growing endeavours.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
jamie
Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growingSenior Member | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growing
#4 Posted : 11/11/2015 2:41:52 AM
brachystachys and aquatica do not overwinter here outside..and most of BC is friggin cold..way colder than vancouver. It can get to -50C with windchill in the interior. Your not going to overwinter anything but arundinacea in a spot like that.

Brachys and aquatica both died every time I tried to overwinter them outdoors in vancity.
Long live the unwoke.
 
Willeh
#5 Posted : 11/11/2015 5:35:54 AM
Thank you 1ce, dreamer042 and jamie. You all helped to ease my anxieties about my gardening plans. I'll be attempting windowsill germination in a few days when my seeds arrive. I'm going to try a pair of fluorescent tubes hung nice and close to the tray. The seeds were from an sacred plants store that specified they were found in Portugal so I have fairly high hopes for them being the NN-Dmt phenotype.

In fourthripleys notes, he describes his brachystachys grass spice as being very different from mimosa spice in duration, visual effect and body load at breakthrough doses. He attributed it to other alkaloids like 5-Meo. He also speculates stressing grass increases 5-Meo content over NN-Dmt content while increasing overall alkaloid content. Because I have only had two relatively intense experiences with spice, if I was to dose high again I would want the cleanest spice possible. I get more body load than my peers from psilocybin/tryptamines and I'm scared how I might react to 5-Meo. Maybe it would be a liberating experience but the fear is there. I'll start very low and experiment with what I get, but for those deep experiences I want to feel comfortable. I will probably invest in one of those nifty TLC kits out of my own meticulousness.

The only thing left is if anyone has any critique or validation on the theoretical simple separation method outlined above on distilling multi-flavor alkaloid soup. I saw it suggested in one thread here once and Shroomery, but there wasn't any peer validation and I'm certainly no scientist. It could be a useful technique for those adventurers who experiment with wild grasses which are more likely to contain a blend of alkaloids.

*Edit/addition: I also am quite interested in trying 5-meo on its own sublingually in lower doses. That sounds very interesting, if I could obtain both substances from the same plant that would be too perfect.

Final Edit: I did a whole bunch of reading over the last few days. From what I understand, if two compounds boiling points are within 50*c effective separation by simple distillation is possible. However, 5-meo and dmt in particular have very similar melting points at atmospheric pressure and while I can not find any literature on 5-meo's boiling point at atmospheric temperature I've seen just over 200c stated by some people. I think it is possible that this may work, but as I'm asking for a 'ghetto' science method instead of something tried and true it's a crapshoot. I'm looking into a glass tube with a stopcock and silica, though I'm scared to order anything too sciencey. Over all, this seems like a hell of a lot of work when there is that chance I'll have a prominently n,n containing grass. But hey, it might not hurt to try the pot still its cheap enough and sort of feasible?
 
 
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