So I'm not sure if this should go in this section, but for the lack of a better match..


A fellow psychonaut gifted me some of this substance several weeks ago, and it's been sitting in a drawer waiting for sensible times. Between reorganizing things after being gone for almost a year and receiving guests at home, the time was never right.

Naively, yesterday, I thought nothing of taking the 25mg of 4-AcO-DMT between an idly morning spent cleaning dust and organizing papers, and going out to meet some friends at night.

It didn't quite work out that way.


Now, for some reason, I was pretty anxious (and I'm not an anxious person in general!) even before T +0. This I attributted to this being my first trip (well, excluding mdma+2c-b, which was more lulz & good times w/ friends [you guys know you who are ] than a real trip) in almost a year, plus being alone at home, plus a new substance (and according to erowid, a strong dose), plus some uncertainty regarding recovery from a certain health issue, which will only be dispelled next month.

Since to me there is always some anxiety even with psychedelics I already know, the feeling was dutifully ignored. I begun writing the set&setting & internal emotional state on the trip journal, and by 2pm, took the capsule.


The first warning that this may be way more than I bargained for came at around T+25: to
me, if psychedelics begin having an effect that early, it means shit is about to get real.

This made me very uncomfortable: my life is more or less disorganized and aimless right now, having just come back from epic travels and not being quite sure why and for how long I am staying at home - or whether I want this to be home!

In that respect it felt like I needed an ego right now, not its disintegration (well, isn't that just the kind of thought an ego would conjure..)

I tried to groove with it. Let go into the experience. Many times in the past that was possible, this time, it didn't appear to be. I tried everything I knew: mantras, meditation, slow breathing. My ego didn't want, couldn't accept, things getting out of control right now.

The one thing that worked -- for a minute or two -- was holding the cat, feeling its warmth, and projecting vibrations of love (forgive the new age language, it is what it is though). For a moment there, my vision literally went brighter, and everything felt lighter, at peace.

Unfortunately I could not sustain this, and at any rate poor kitty was a bit reticent about all this (I was growing increasingly agitated).


It seemed like a cosmic joke of sorts, everything I am and knew, slowly disintegrating right before my eyes, and I knew there was nothing I could do to stop it. There was no ejection button, no intensity dial to lower. The feeling of impending doom kept increasing, and with it, my anxiety, even as consciously, I tried to slow down my breathing and lower my heart rate/tension.

The whole thing was remarkably clear-headed as well, the 4aco was robbing me of everything, but wanted to let me know. Never during the whole trip did I lose sight of who and what I was (no ego death - I did manage to fight it through - with some help, as you'll see).

Anxiety was turning into fear and despair.

I paced around the living room, tried doing some tai chi, and moving around, but given the high heart rate, I figured it would perhaps be good to just sit down. But when I did, I would have to face all the things this trip was bringing forward, and at that moment I couldn't - didn't want to! Not like this, it was too much.

Briefly I thought about taking some MDMA to counter the tendency, but presently having no internet at home, I could not check the safety of the combo (which I assumed to be fine, but didn't want to risk). At any rate, it would have been a cop-out. I knew even then there would be much to learn, and well, I did bring it upon myself, right?

During one of the pacing episodes around the house, for some reason I picked the cellphone up. There was a message from my girlfriend, who is in another continent now, saying she would like to talk as she isn't feeling very good.

I had 36cents of credit, no internet, and definitely no telepatic powers. With great concentration (time was slowed down, though it was imperceptible experientially, it was only when looking at the clock that I would realize how little time had passed) I called her and asked what was wrong. It was very hard to follow the conversation, in between all the things that were beginning to happen with closed and open eyes, but by and large, I managed. It was nothing imminently serious, and that is all I needed to know for the time being. She was not in immediate danger, it was just a stressful day at work.

At this point I did something that only one other time I had considered (and not followed through) -- I called someone and asked for help.

Since I don't know any psychonauts around here, this had to be my cousin, who has 0 experience with psychedelics and sees all of it as heroin (yeah.) But regardless, we've always had a good relationship.

Frankly, even though barely half an hour had passed when she later arrived, I had completely forgotten that she was coming by then - the time distortion was huge, and I didn't really perceive it.


At some point slightly before the peak, I felt very weak, and lied down, curled and my eyes begun closing and rolling to the side, just as my muscles lost all strength.

I don't know what would have happened if I had let that run its course, fortunately the lucidity hadn't left, and this did not seem like any sort of symbolic death/rebirth.

So I fought that. The tendency to just let my head fall to the side and let go of all muscular strength was present until another hour had passed.

Meanwhile my cousin arrived (god, that doorbell, was I startled lol). It was only here that I noticed that my blood pressure must have been very low, for everything felt so heavy, and I talked extremely slowly, and with a very calm demeanor.

Of course, being sober she immediately perceived this and went on to warm some water and mix some sugar in it. I vaguely explained the situation to her, and that it was already slowing down now (this was slightly post-peak).

Again with considerable concentration to follow her words -- interestingly, verbal capacity never went away, as it tends to go for me on shrooms or acid -- time distortion was still going strong -- I came to know that my dear uncle has been very sick, but he's been hiding it from almost everyone. Clients, friends.. everyone except my aunt and my cousin. I have seen him 3 or 4 times since coming back home, and didn't realize.

They own a business and due to the dire economic situation here, many clients are not paying up. So their debt has been piling up as well. The state being the state, simply froze all their personal accounts, and removed as much as it pleased to get its belly full. That they were left with 0€ did not seem to be of concern to the state.

In that heightened psychedelic state, I saw a man (my uncle) who's worked hard his whole life to provide for his family, built a successful business from scratch and employed a dozen people, who also depended on him. I felt how it must feel to him to see all of this crumbling away, people not honoring their debts, the state coming and stealing the rest, all while his health is failing.

I thought how damn terrible this must be -- he is 59, but a young soul. How fucked up it must be to be inside a failing body with complete awareness of what's happening. And seeing your life's work evaporate in front of your eyes, due to circumstances out of your control.

Cousin kept going about how this has naturally been making my aunt very stressed as well, and her, of course.

I had no idea how dire their situation is - outwardly they appear fine, with a big office that they have paid for, several cars, and a big house. I was alternating between being shocked at this and just being awed at the vegetation outside (yes, by then the struggle to control the trip was long gone, this was the beginning of the comedown)


Even though I felt very cold then, cousin assured me I was actually warmer than normal. I was covered in two blankets, endlessly running my fingers through my hair, amazed at the level of detail in it. I pondered the information she'd just given me, and occasionally lost myself in psychedelic delight at particles of dust in the air, the vegetation outside, or how warm the cups of warm water she kept producing felt.

By 16:50 she had to leave - she had, after all, left a very busy office in order to come visit. I was still tripping fairly hard, but the effects were slowly vanishing.

I sat there in almost complete tranquility. The naiveness of having tried to sandwich this experience between morning and going out at night struck me.

I knew things would never be the same. It was a fucking brutal lesson, but I am humbled to admit, it was exactly what I needed.


For the time being, I am done tripping. Mainly for two reasons: It would be disrespectul to do it again without applying the lessons and insights (many of which are very personal and I will keep to myself, though I suppose they can be inferred from the description), and it would be foolish, like this trip was, to do it again without knowing for sure that my health condition is stabilized - due to having been out travelling, it hasn't been checked yet.


I am glad my cousin showed up, there is no way to know for sure, but I do believe my tension was dangerously low and it could have slid into something sinister had she not give me sugar then. In that state, I could have not made the connection.

Be safe out there.

Glad you are alright brother !



Sorry to hear about your uncle, and I hope your gf is ok!

Either way it's good to know you took some lessons from this and will take a break from psychedelics to 'put the house in order'. Did you come to any ideas regarding what's next in life, if you want to still live there, etc?

Also another thing I was wondering, how did your cousin react to you in that situation?

Be well!

Guess, we all have to learn this lesson along the way.

For now I will enjoy the summer here, but especially the story about the state just coming in and emptying bank accounts simply because it can has confirmed some of my darkest suspicious about the true state of affairs around here. This stuff is criminal and in the medium/long term it is not something that I want to deal with.

The most important thing right now is once again getting reachable and working on some ideas that I have been delaying for no good reason whatsoever. And staying connected with those I care about.

The rest will be dealt with as it comes



Remarkably well, considering that I was endlessly stroking my hair, staring into infinity with what must have been childish innocence and wonder, and smelling/touching everything in sight, very slowly & deliberately

Many lessons were learned, but this was not one of them - any sensible psychonaut knows about dose, set & setting.

I knew it was a high dose for most people (usually I need elephant doses) - I took the risk - I bore the consequences grin:

I find it kind of funny when things like this happen. I would get this a lot when traveling on long psychedelics: Get scared on the come-up, have a monstrous peak, and then during the comedown when the intensity has left the air, but the psychedelia remains, it can all be quite whimsical, and though during the peak I would have given anything to make it end instantly, during the comedown I find it wanting to last longer and longer.

My last experience with 4-AcO wasn't very pleasant either. I found it extremely difficult to cope. It was one of my visually stronger experiences with the substance where I could detect holograms descending from the sky and rising from the floor, but from a somatic perspective, it was like a monster shrooms trip. The irrational anxiety and heavy body load were difficult to cope with. Be careful with this stuff!

Man I can related. The only time I took 7.5 grams of cubes I was just completely floored. I assumed 7.3 would be roughly double to 3.5. WRONG. way wrong. lol My ego, for what ever reason, just refused the psychedelic state that day and holy shit did I suffer for it! However, kinda like you, post peak I was able to let go and relax into it.... But man those first two hours were some of the toughest psychedelic experience I have ever had.


And BTW you are wise to take a break for a spell. These experiences aren't going anywhere. I took almost 7 years off from them when I first graduated college. Mostly because I didn't have access, but also because I needed to get on with figuring our what I was going to do with my life...

Now ironically I tend to take them when I need to figure out what I'm doing with my life! lol

Peace

Can definitely relate, Global & joedirt.

How much did you take the last time when it went south, Global?

It's funny,so often I've heard it described as kinda like shrooms -- to me, it was nothing like psilo!

Nexalizer, not to doubt you at all, but are you definitely sure it was 4-AcO-DMT and really only 25mg? You omitted any visual descriptions, which would surely have been pronounced?

Also you mention that:



and




I've used it quite a few times over the last couple of years (from one good batch) and - even factoring in your limited experience - your trip sounds quite harsh, but I would not associate either of the two quotes above with 4-AcO-DMT. It should be a lot like psilo, and 25mg ties in with the 'optimum' therapeutic dose for terminal cancer patients in the Johns Hopkins trials! Although, they do give a 5mg intro dose some days before, which had a marked improvement on outcomes and stats.

I've been up to 60mg, which was quite extreme, but still nowhere near what you describe, but even I will struggle with sentence-forming above 20mg.

Also, I can notice effects within 20-25 mins only if I drink the stuff in solution. A capsule will take at least an hour, even on an empty stomach...but I'm still foxed as to what else it could be, if it wasn't 4-AcO-DMT?

Every experience...drags you forward. Whether that's over gravel or grass, depends on you.

Good luck!

I can be as sure as possible - while I'm not revealing the source, it was someone from the forum whom I fully trust. S/he tested the batch and I have no reason not to believe it was indeed 4aco.

Usually it takes BIG doses for me to get any visuals at all, and you have to realize I was struggling to put the genie back in the bottle until the peak subsided. So, there was some heavy undulation, and a buddha painting I have here smiled, cried, laughed, meditated, etc, and behind closed eyes there was something as well, but I begun ignoring it (not closing eyes) when I noticed.



Well, that I found it nothing like psilo could also be because to date all my psilo trips began outdoors, and only one ever ended indoors, already post-peak. Set and setting could be enough to explain why it was so distinct from psilo this time.

With shrooms for me it's not so much not being able to form sentences, it's more like a very strong desire to not even attempt to. Psilo tends to shut down the inner voice ('hearing' your own thoughts) for me, and so the external counterpart to that tends to also be absent. In fact I find it annoying when other people around talk while I'm shrooming, as it involuntarily engages that part of the brain again. If that makes sense.




Well, I know this girl, she eats mushroom truffles and begins having alerts in 10 minutes. Trip well underway by 25. Some people are just different. On high doses of acid I get alerts around T+20 as well, and the trip starts much faster than on lower doses.