Source:
http://onlinelibrary.wil...-0773.2001.d01-162.x/pdf



Opinions?

Well I'm no chemist or doctor, but I have heard this rumour before.
Never saw that study though, but I think it speaks for itself.

I guess it is safe to assume that if Harmine has these effects in hamsters, it would have these effects in other mamals too.
Turns out Ayahuasca may not be all that safe in the long run :/ I had a gut feeling and have allways prefered to smoke DMT instead, allthough the experience is different.


Makes you wonder though: Could DMT, Psilocybin and other Tryptamines have the same harmful effects, since it's chemically quite similair to Harmine? :/

I have read here and also read medical documents that point to a myriad of benefits from harmalas. From helping control blood sugar and providing cardiac benefits among others. So who to believe.

Im not sure how much you can extrapolate from that and apply to humans in the context of ayahuasca drinking. There are too many details left out from that abstract for one

Im not sure if you can even apply this to rats fed harmine...I have not read it all but it seems that this is just cultures exposed to harmine..which is different from a mammal orally ingesting harmine.

There has been, so far no indication that long term ayahuasca drinkers suffer any damage.

Well both positive and negative effects could be true, couldn't they?

But erm.... cytotoxic and genotoxic effects (the later meaning: it breaks DNA strands)...
could be me but that sounds particulairly messed up. Like potentially causing deformed
offspring-kind of messed up.

Then again this could indeed be psuedo-science as a form of propaganda against psychedelics.
We know how far some "scientists" would go just to please their DEA puppermasters...
In this world it is unfortunately not inconceivable.

Are there any other studies performed by other scientists that back up these claims of Harman's & Harmine's cytotoxic and genotoxic effects ? Have a look on the internet.
If so, then it is reasonable to assume Harman & Harmine are harmfull in the long run.

I dont think it has anything to do with the DEA. I think people extrapolate too much from studies like this, and apply it to a totally different context(humans drinking plant based teas containing harmine)...there are many examples of this stuff, where a compound from a medicinal herb is found to have some damaging effect at a certain dose, in isolate to cells in a culture..and then they also find that it is not relevant when the herb itself is orally ingested. Mugwort is a good example.

What he said ^

I'm not a scientist either, but dogs aren't supposed to eat chocolate, yet humans can with no harm done (actually benefits!). This article is a little silly to me, especially since it's a lung cell of a hamster. That has nothing to do with me.

Are the children of aya shamans generally deformed? I have never heard this, nor have I heard of increased occurrences of genetic abnormalities in South American cultures when compared to the rest of the world...

This is interesting research, but as stated above it's very limited. The researchers themselves state:

Here is a little more information on harman from a paper I wrote:

and a bit on harmine:

Celikyurt, I., Utkan, T., Gocmez, S., Hudson, A., & Aricioglu, F. (2013). Effect of harmane, an endogenous β-carboline, on learning and memory in rats. Pharmacology, Biochemistry And Behavior, 103(3), 666-671. doi:10.1016/j.pbb.2012.10.011

Fiot, J., Sanon, S., Azas, N., Mahiou, V., Jansen, O., Angenot, L., & Ollivier, E. (2006). Phytochemical and pharmacological study of roots and leaves of Guiera senegalensis JF Gmel (Combretaceae). Journal of ethnopharmacology, 106(2), 173-178.

Fortunato, J. J., Réus, G. Z., Kirsch, T. R., Stringari, R. B., Fries, G. R., Kapczinski, F., ... & Quevedo, J. (2010a). Chronic administration of harmine elicits antidepressant-like effects and increases BDNF levels in rat hippocampus. Journal of neural transmission, 117(10), 1131-1137.

Herraiz*, T. (2004). Relative exposure to β-carbolines norharman and harman from foods and tobacco smoke. Food additives and contaminants, 21(11), 1041-1050.

Jahaniani, F., Ebrahimi, S. A., Rahbar-Roshandel, N., & Mahmoudian, M. (2005). Xanthomicrol is the main cytotoxic component of Dracocephalum kotschyii and a potential anti-cancer agent. Phytochemistry, 66(13), 1581-1592.

Müller, W. E., Fehske, K. J., Borbe, H. O., Wollert, U., Nanz, C., & Rommelspacher, H. (1981). On the neuropharmacology of harmane and other β-carbolines. Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior, 14(5), 693-699.

Nafisi, S., Bonsaii, M., Maali, P., Khalilzadeh, M. A., & Manouchehri, F. (2010). β-Carboline alkaloids bind DNA. Journal of Photochemistry and Photobiology B: Biology, 100(2), 84-91.

Phillipson, J. D., & Hemingway, S. R. (1975). Chromatographic and spectroscopic methods for the identification of alkaloids from herbarium samples of the genus uncaria. Journal of Chromatography A, 105(1), 163-178.

Rehwald, A., Sticher, O., & Meier, B. (1995). Trace analysis of harman alkaloids in passiflora incarnata by reversed‐phase high performance liquid chromatography. Phytochemical Analysis, 6(2), 96-100.

Rommelspacher, H., May, T., & Salewski, B. (1994). Harman (1-methyl-β-carboline) is a natural inhibitor of monoamine oxidase type A in rats. European journal of pharmacology, 252(1), 51-59.

Shulgin, A., & Shulgin, A. (1997). TIHKAL: the continuation. Transform Press.

Slaytor, M., & McFarlane, I. J. (1968 ). The biosynthesis and metabolism of harman in passiflora edulis—I: The biosynthesis of harman. Phytochemistry, 7(4), 605-611.

Susanna YH, T. (1991). Antioxidative properties of harmane and β-carboline alkaloids. Biochemical pharmacology, 42(3), 459-464.

Wright, E. E., Bird, J. L., & Feldman, J. M. (1979). The effect of harmine and other monoamine oxidase inhibitors on N-acetyltransferase activity. Research communications in chemical pathology and pharmacology, 24(2), 259-272.

Great replies. Shows that a linear comparison to oral consumption cannot be extrapolated from this study. Not for the hamsters, let alone humans. And no, no ones has ever heard of any genetically damaged Shaman offspring issues before. Having used it for thousands of years. That says something.

Even if Harmine had some negative effect in isolated form, there are countless other alkaloids in Ayahuasca, probably interacting with each other. It is known that CBD cancels out negative effects of THC in cannabis. Almost as if these plants, well.. Know what they are doing?

I can only say one thing for sure: Ayahuasca has made me healthier, I can physically and mentally feel that. No doubt.

Unofrtunately Cell Phones ARE genotoxic.

We have a rule here against CT's:
No Conspiracy Theories

So refrain from going that route.


The Traveler

Interestingly, the concentrations of harmine used in this study arevery close to physiological pharmaand aya doses...

Granted, it is just a cell culture, but a mammalian cell culture nevertheless. Even though it wouldbe a mistake to extrapolate tohumans att this moment, the reaults are worrying indeed. The study is quite old already and there have been much more recent experiments published that i do not recall painting such a grim picture...

...then again there all these experiments reporting the antifungal and antiparasitic properties of harmine so there might besome truth to those cytotoxic effects.

I think infund and dreamer pointed to it pretty well, but I think it's worth emphasizing that this genotoxic effect is one mechanism by which harmine and it's analogs induce their anti-cancer effects, and its not such a scary thing, but often a good thing. They intercalate, or get up in that DNA groove and induce frameshift mutations or strand breaks; in cancer cells that are rapidly proliferating, this can induce cell death.