This post is meant to help people get a solution to the proper pH without using a pH meter or pH papers.

The solutions that I listed are used in most A/B extraction teks. I have attached my work on how I got these numbers and amounts.

The work I showed is for the following solutions:

pH 13 NaOH solution
pH 3, 3.5, and 4 acetic acid solutions starting from 5% acetic acid solution
pH 9, and 10 sodium carbonate solutions

Here are the conclusions that I came to:

Add 4 g NaOH per 1 L TOTAL solution to obtain a pH 13 NaOH solution

Add 69.5 ml of 5% acetic acid per 1 L TOTAL solution for pH 3 acetic acid solution
Add 7.2 ml of 5% acetic acid per 1 L TOTAL solution for pH 3.5 acetic acid solution
Add 0.8 ml of 5% acetic acid per 1 L TOTAL solution for pH 4 acetic acid solution

Add 1.06 mg of sodium carbonate per 1 L TOTAL solution for pH 9 sodium carbonate solution
Add 15.90 mg of sodium carbonate per 1 L TOTAL solution for pH 10 sodium carbonate solution

(I emphasize TOTAL solution because if you add 69.5 ml of acetic acid to 1 L of water you now have 1.0695 total solution and the ph will NOT be 3.)

Some things to note about these calculations:

When doing an acid base extraction, the first step is to do the acid extraction at ~pH 4. This means that you will need to add MORE than 4 g to obtain a solution at pH 13. A similar calculation can be done to determine exactly how much is needed but this informations is trivial. The solubility of NaOH in water is so high and adding too much does not have a negative effect so it is much safer to add much more than 4 g, as stated in most teks.

The second thing to note is that most teks say to do the acid extraction at pH 4. Without a pH meter or pH papers obtaining this exact pH is difficult or impossible for two reasons: store bought vinegar (5% acetic acid) is actually in-between 4% and 6%, and many of us do not have the ability to measure less than a milliliter. That is why I included the second two calculations at pH 3.5 and pH 3. Instead of aiming at exactly pH 4 I would recommend aiming for a solution in-between pH 3.5 and pH 4, recognizing that it is not necessary to be at exactly pH 4. Add anywhere between 2 and 5 ml to guarantee that you are within pH 3.5 and pH 4 and not below pH 3.5. This same logic applies to the sodium carbonate solutions.

One thing that is great about knowing how to do these calculations is that you can do them for ANY desired solution with ANY different type of acid or base.

Any other chemists out there please check my work to make 100% sure I did them correctly.

Man.. I really thought people would appreciate this on this forum.

Hey ChemicalEnthusiast - nice work.

I'm not a chemist so I can't VET this for you, you're clearly more clued up on this topic than me.

I've only just read this now, I'm sure many people have read this (including myself) and appreciated your effort, so don't take lack of response meaning people are unappreciative.

The thing is, pH papers are so easily accessible and so cheap, that I don't expect there would be many people needing to use this method (taking into consideration how much more effort is it to obtain source material, solvents etc)

Anyhow, I like your work regardless.

I have generic brand vinegar, listed as 9% acetic acid, measures out to pH 2.26 on my orion 230A. Most people here use pH papers at the very least, many have pH meters.

One could also do long division on paper and use a slide rule, but why, when technology is so widely available? You could use Henderson-Hasselbalch all day, if you're into that sort of thing, but you won't apply it outside of academia, I guarantee it. A boolean string entry on wolfram alpha will save you time, and give you extra information. That tech wasn't around 20 years ago, take advantage of it.

if you need to measure less than a milliliter, get a micropipette. they're not expensive on the world's most popular auction site, and they'll help you figure out if that cheapo gempro is accurately weighing 10 mg (10 uL deionized/distilled water).

I actually had a fairly difficult time acquiring either pH papers or a meter. Most of the pH papers were limited in the pH range that they tested as they were meant for pools, aquariums, or agriculture. And the meters that I looked at were either pretty damn expensive or had terrible reviews. I lcalled a local hydroponics store, walmart, lowes, target, and menards, no papers and no cheap reliable meters. I suppose the easiest way to obtain this stuff is on the internet.

Idk, I just thought there would be some other people in the same situation as me.

i can't lie, it's pretty cool to see the HH equation, i haven't seen it in many years.

Beckman, Thermo Orion, Corning, VMR, Cole-Parmer, Fisher Scientific, Hanna...these are reputable brands.

I don't think this software is going to tell you how to make a solution a specific pH starting with a solution with a different pH. I could be wrong though.

scroll down to preparation. you could also, in another tab, get the properties of 17M acetic acid.

Most of these are pretty expensive though and that was what lead me away from purchasing them, I didn't want to spend a bunch of money on materials for personal extraction. If I had it my way I'd have all the nuts and bolts, soxhlet extractor, sep funnels, etc.



I only know it because I'm studying for the chem GRE right now lol



Starting with 5% though.. And I thought the logic behind staying within pH 3.5 - pH 4 would be useful for some people.

I guess it depends on where you want to focus funds. I got my meter for the price of what people paid for 100g of MHRB, at the time.


as for the pH thing.. one could technically take the pH as high as 5.2, and still have >99.9% DMT-H+ in sol'n.

And actually, I didn't even use the HH equation. I just used the acid dissociation constant equation and then m1v1=m2v2.

yea, the only place you'll use that is in class, not in the "real world" (industry).
those equations have been posted before in the main forum though, just for discussion's sake.

Yeah, I realized that too, given that the pKa of DMT is 8.68, 5.68 would theoretically be 99.9%. I was trying to think to myself why every tek says to go to pH 4 or below..? It might have to do with the solubility of the salts that are formed. DMT acetate is going to have a different solubility than DMT HCl. Right? I actually tried finding this information on this forum before I became a member.

I would love to see a table of the solubility of DMT salts.

i'm going by the chemaxon calculations, the pKa distribution chart is in the properties tab on chemicalize.org (search dimethyltryptamine).

i've never seen a table of dmt salt solubility data, but then again, i don't know
of anyone who has the time (or even cares to spend it) to compile it. I know it's been requested before.

Yeah I just got it from this post, yours is probably more accurate.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=1714

Either way, weather its 8.2 or 8.68, pH of 4 is far below what is needed. Still curious why everyone says 4..

4 is a roundabout number, it really doesn't matter in practice. neither would 2.

True, true.

Hey benzyme, I would pm you but it won't let me (still not a full member). Idk if it's too early to ask but I was wondering if you would vouch for me? I believe I have a lot to contribute to this forum, especially from the science side. If not, I understand, I'm still very new. I just would like to contribute to other conversations.

yea, definitely
access is granted based on good character and quality of posts. you're on the right track, keep making good posts.

Thanks man! I really appreciate it! I definitely will.