Does anyone have good experiences with harmine (hcl or freebase) and ACRB?

Harmine vs full spectrum rue as maoi for dmt? How do the effects differ? Does rue make it last longer? Does one have to wait less time between taking the harmine and dmt than if he were taking rue and then dmt?

I can't seem to find good data on this anywhere..

Taking 200 to 250 mg harmine/harmaline (purified rue extract) with 50 mg full spectrum (DMT + NMT) ACRB extract gives me and my friends very colorful visions, notably more colorful than with MHRB extract. The extracts are taken together for optimal effects. Some friends prefer a little more DMT, some a little less.

Unextracted rue may last a little longer as the body has to do all the extraction work, which takes some time. With an extract, the harmine/harmaline are absorbed very quickly. The raw rue may give more body loadf than the purified extract.

If I want to prolong the visions, I take another dose of 100 mg harmalas and 25 mg DMT fumarate.

For oral consumption, harmine/harmaline HCl is best, for changa making freebase is best.

Is there also a difference in visuals when using rue as opposed to extracted harmala alkaloids? I'm asking becasue SWIM has had 4 anahuasca experiences with ACRB and rue and only 2 out of 4 have worked. Please help him out.

1st (successful): 2.7g rue (powdered and swallowed), 22g ACRB (shredded made into tea), night time. (Successful level 3-4 for about 5 hours.)
2nd (unsuccessful): 3.5 rue, ~20g ACRB, day time. (Felt very ill, puffed hard and had level 2-3 for only 1 hours and level 1-2 for the another hour.)
3rd (successful): 2.8g rue, 22g ACRB, night. (Level 3-5 for 5-6 hours straight; about as strong as a just-subbreakthrough vaped experience for 2 hours and as strong as a 7-8g mushroom experience for another 3 hours or so.
4th (unsuccessful): 2.8 different rue (from persian market), 22g ACRB tea (used 50% less water than usual to make tea), day time. (Level 1-2 for about an hour and and then died down right after purge. (Held down purge for about an hour)

What the heck is going on?? Does it only work at night?

There should be little or no difference in visual quality with rue seeds versus extracted harmalas AFAIK. The main difference is the body load.

The advantage of extracted and purified harmalas is better control over quality and dosage. The composition of rue seeds may be variable over harvesting conditions and local strain differences.

When doing pharma, I like to do it in a darkened and silenced place. This makes it easier to immerse into the full depth of the experience. External stimuli can distract from going deeper. The first time I tried pharma, I went cycling during daytime and had only a mellow trip, even though I consumed a dose I would now be reluctant to try.

My advice is to get some harmala extract and to try to create a proper meditative setting and a focused set.

The differences between the day and night trips were massive. Day was like 1.5g mushrooms for 1 hour. Night was like 8g for 5 hours.

And swim uses over 20g of ACRB for each of his doses, so can the light of day really stop one from going deep if he's dosing that high on the dmt? Shouldn't he be forced deep regardless as with a high dose of mushrooms?

Could you please define HCL or freebase version for these given weights?
(100 HCL relates to 85 FB)
Personally, 200mg rueHCL is a very nice trade off between avoiding too much of rue effects and maoi-durability.

HCl of course, sorry for not being clear. For oral pharmahuasca use, I always use the HCl salt of harmala alkaloids.

Will there be visual/depth differences or just body load + duration differences if one used 100mg harmine hcl vs say 150 or 200mg?

pitubo, why do you use the HCL Harmalas for oral use? Freebase Harmalas work brilliantly for oral use, it just get's converted in the stomach to it's salt form anyways. Toss in some washing soda to a Rue brew, precipitate out the full spectrum extract, and purify it further by dissolving in vinegar, re-basing with washing soda, maybe a manske to get pure Harmalas and then re-base. I believe the freebase powder to be more easily handled than the HCL salts.

Sabnok, could you, please, elaborate on this : "I believe the freebase powder to be more easily handled than the HCL salts".
I don't understand and as i try to work with pharma with no succes, i grasp any data available.

Thank you

Well the HCL salts from the manske extraction can often times be contaminated with extra salt which can throw off the amount needed for a dose. The freebase powder is cleaner, can be washed with water to rid any excess washing soda, and can be smoked, snorted, taken orally or sublingually, while the HCL salts are mainly for oral ingestion if i'm not mistaken. It's just easier with the freebase powder, and all i gotta do is take an empty capsule, and scoop it into the powder to fill it up, pack it by tapping the capsule on the table, and then cap and enjoy.

I've recently found out that if i pack the freebase powder into the long part of a size 0 capsule (i fill it up all the way to the top of the long part) and then cap it, that it seems like a really good dose, seems to last about 7 hours, and is a good way to not take too much Rue/Harmalas. I was using size 00 capsules, but i would always end up taking too much because i don't have a scale to weigh the dose out and always eyeball it, but the size 0 capsule is perfect for it.

If you want full spectrum Rue extract, all you gotta do is toss in 10 grams of washing soda per 400mls of Rue (or Caapi) brew, which will precipitate out the freebase full spectrum extract that you can then filter out with a coffee filter. To purify this, mix warm water with 50 to 100mls of Vinegar, dunk the coffee filter with the extract into the warm vinegar water, stir and dissolve the extract, and filter out anything that won't dissolve. Once filtered, re-base with washing soda (10 grams per 400mls of liquid) and filter. Re-dissolve, filter and re-base the extract one or two more times and you'll have a pure full spectrum extract.

If you want purified Harmalas, take your purified full spectrum extract, and dissolve in warm vinegar water one more time, heat it up on the stove till it starts boiling, toss in 10 grams of salt per 100mls of liquid and stir/dissolve it in. Once dissolved, stick the liquid in the fridge for a day or two, and the HCL salts will precipitate out. You then pour off the liquid from the Harmalas in the bottom (i pour it through a coffee filter to catch anything that may be floating in the liquid) and then dissolve the Harmalas with warm acidic water, base with the washing soda (same amount as before) and filter em' out, and then re-dissolve/re-base once more to make sure there's no salt contamination, and let em' dry. You can either purify them a time or two more by re-doing the manske, but ime it's not needed and can be re-based after only one manske precipitation.

Edit: Btw, before i add the base at any point (while the Harmalas are still in their acidic salt form), i usually take the coffee filter once everything has been filtered, and wet it and wring it out a few times to make sure i get all the goodies, that way, you can be sure you get as much as you can.

I haven't tried pure Harmine orally, but i have tried purified Harmalas and full spectrum Rue extract. The full spectrum extract is by far better, to me anyways, than the purified Harmalas. The full spectrum feels more whole, while the purified Harmalas feel cleaner, but both extracts feel way cleaner than ingesting raw Rue seed, that's for sure. I much prefer the full spectrum, because it's more Ayahuasca-like, while the purified Harmalas seem more Pharmahuasca-like.

And ime, the purified Harmalas seem to fully kick in at about an hour and a half while the full spectrum extract seems to kick in at about an hour, while raw Rue seed in capsules generally takes about two full hours to fully kick in. And the duration of the experience has to do with the dose of extract you're using, but the typical duration for the dose of extract that i use, is 6 to 7 hours.

With purified Harmalas, i generally take my Acacia tea at an hour and a half after ingestion of the Harmalas, while with full spectrum extract i generally take the Acacia tea 30 minutes after ingestion. For some reason there just seems to be different timing mechanisms for each extract, though i'm not sure what it's like for pure Harmine or pure Harmaline.

My reasons are not very strong, but still:
- Because I have the HCl salt.
- Because using the salt makes less demand on the stomach.
- Because the freebase is more sticky, thus a bit harder to handle than the free flowing HCl needles.
- Because the freebase makes nasty stains, the salt doesn't.

Other than that, I do not disagree much with most of your observations, except:
- Well-prepared HCl salt contains little or no NaCl residue.
- Washing soda can come as anhydrous, monohydrate, pentahydrate or decahydrate. 10 grams of what do you use?
- Especially in the initial basing steps, lye is more useful.

Thanks for the (quick) answer Sabnok.

I wasn't aware you could use freebase for something else than smoking. Good to know.

I just freebase (yesterday !) a part of my harmalas on this purpose and i noticed a loss : from 1000mg FB i should have 780mg HCL (dixit the freebase/salt calculator by Infundibulum) and i had 550mg. I guess a part is gone in filter and in few drop spilled but ~200mg are still missing, probably salt (NaCl) contamination as you said.

And the strange thing is my harmalas from rue (Tao + manske) are made of 90%+ of harmine. Nothing precipitate above the pH 8,8. Just weird as i read rue is usualy ~50/50 harmine/harmaline.

I have ~20% salt contamination and 90% of the left-over is harmine. Those two facts could explain why with my pharma attempts are missfire. Probably not well MAO inhibited. I'm glad i know that cause my next try would be with more DMT (i already tried 100mg) and i don't want to be hyperslaped (i'm a poor little fragil thing )

Thanks again and keep it real !

Harmine should do fine as a MAOI, comparable to harmaline.

For pharmahuasca, try 200 mg of the either the salt or the freebase and take it together with 50 mg of DMT for a start. If, after an hour, this does not give sufficient result, add 100 mg more harmalas and 25 mg more DMT.

IMHO It is a common mistake to wait 30 minutes or more after ingesting the harmala extract before ingesting the DMT. This will cause the DMT to be much less effective due to excessive metabolism. Waiting 30 minutes AFAICS only makes sense if ingesting raw rue seeds or if dosing the harmala in combination with smoked DMT.

Pitubo,

I tried :

1st time
T0: 150mg H(armalas salt)
T+30: 50mg DMT fb
Nothing but purge

2nd time
T0: 155mg H
T+30: 55mg DMT fum + 50mg H
T+60: 35mg DMT fum
T+120: 100mg H + 50mg DMT fum
Nothing

3rd time
T0: 200mg H + 60mg DMT fum
T+90: 100mg H + 40mg DMT
Something but no CEV or OEV

4th time
T0: 250mg H
T+15: 50mg H + 50mg DMT fb
T+100: 30mg DMT fb vaped
T+130: 30mg DMT fb vaped
before to vape nothing and after i've been gone but the intense nausea made the trip a nightmare. I just felt an pain that i didn't know it could exist and icouldn't focus on something else. On the come down, i realised it was the nausea.


About harmine, i read it was less potent than harmaline by weight. So for the same effect i should use more of it.

When i try, i don't eat at least 6h prior and most of the time i eat a little thing (apple, slice of bread) 10min after the Harmalas/DMT.

What do you think ?



ps: I saw your PM when i was on the way to change my profil when i understood i was messing up the format of the threads. Sorry about that

If your products are okay, incredible that you need such doses oral and get nowhere. But some people are hard headed wired.

That amount of harmala doesn't appear to me as insanely high, so I am surprised that it would give you so much nausea. Pain doesn't sound good at all. Perhaps you have an underlying condition that is triggered/exacerbated by the harmala alkaloids?


No more than half as much. But unless you do some kind of analysis, TLC at least, you do not know for very sure what the amounts of harmine versus harmaline are in your extract.


It may be that you indeed need a more than average oral dose of DMT. Or your response to harmala alkaloids is unusual, effecting the DMT uptake indirectly. I don't know. The purging, nausea and even pain at such relatively low dose of harmala alkaloids does sound odd to me. Have you (carefully) experimented with the effects of varying doses of harmalas-only, investigating the dose where the effects become apparent to you, when the nausea starts and where it becomes unbearable?


Thanks!