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CYB's max ion + epsom salt =?? Anyway to undo? Options
 
rabies_70
#1 Posted : 5/23/2014 9:33:02 AM
rabies_70 wrote:
Max Ion Tek is my favorite so far. 1.9% from last few powdered MHRB extractions.

Question on using Epsom Salts. Say some bonehead non chemistry oriented person was using the tek with 100g powdered MHRB known to be good bark. Followed the recipe as written EXCEPT the bonehead non chemist used Epsom Salts instead of NaCl.(saw posts about good results and like a bonehead went for it without understanding it) 80g dissolved in hot water. Made the soup look "weird" almost instantly. After basifying The normally blackish basified soup looked to turn, I don't know, sort of less black? More brown grayish and thicker? If that makes any sense at all.

So the bonehead continues on and pours into the separation funnel like normal and adds 30ml heated Naptha (the bonehead did use a water bath to warm the naptha, no open flames) and shakes solution, not too crazy on the shaking just the "normal" amount. And the Naptha didn't really separate very much, as it usually seems to form a separate layer fairly quickly. Not so this time. And it also only gave back about 5-10ml naptha. Just put the whole soup mix all back the the SepFunnel and it's really not too interested in forming two layers. There appears to be three layers. Bottom = soup, middle is a sort of translucent brownish, top is clearish naptha.

The bonehead knows he stepped in it now, made some crazy emulsion or who knows what, and is humbly asking for a direction to take to move forward. Is this the point where one would add NaCl to break the emulsion? Chemistry is definitely not my strong suit. This will get set aside for tonight.I am going to restart another and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS this time like normal.

It's been a helluva couple weeks, hyperslapped in some gnarly travels, met an entity with piecing blue eyes and powers that I can still 'feel' clear as they were when they were right in front of me, it has been very very interesting interacting with something as powerful as it is, mind warpingly so. And now this, an utterly newb move.

I hope the day is kind to y'all.



Not sure exactly how to rephrase the question so I just cut and pasted. Still holding onto the soup. Does anyone know if there is anyway to counter the effect of adding epsom salt instead of regular salt?

Thank you.


Ray
 
Du57mi73
#2 Posted : 5/23/2014 10:29:10 PM
There's no need to counter anything. You can add some NaCl if you'd like to try and help break emulsion. Also you can put it back into a hot water bath to help break emulsion. Swirl it around like fine wine. Eventually the naptha will separate. So, I don't see where your problem is. Is it because your naptha hasn't separated yet? Just give it time.

What you should do is try and separate as much of the base soup as you can from the other 2 layers. Once you have just the 2 layers you should add a small amount of hot salt water. Gently swirl that around and see if it helps separate the two layers better.

There really shouldn't be that big a difference between using Epsom or Table salts.
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 
Entheogenerator
#3 Posted : 5/23/2014 11:14:01 PM
MgSO4 (epsom salts) is often used as a desiccant, because it absorbs water very well. Perhaps the epsom salts absorbed a significant amount of the water, causing the viscosity of the solution to rise substantially, and therefore causing the emulsion? If this is the case, more water might help... This is all purely speculation, obviously. I'm just throwing an idea out there.
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an I" - Ringworm
Attitude Page ❋ Health & Safety ❋ FAQ ❋ Known Substance Interactions ❋ Extraction Teks ❋ The Machine
 
rabies_70
#4 Posted : 5/24/2014 7:36:02 AM
Thank you very much for the replies. I think both answer my issue well. I did not know MagSO4 was used as a desiccant (should have read more, will now) and that process would describe what occurred when I boneheadedly added the mag...it seriously looked weird when the change that occurred took place...absorbing the water and changing the viscosity of the water describes very well what I was observing take place. It really was trippy to watch. Thank you Entheogenerator. It wasn't an emulsion after all I feel. I just lacked the descriptive vocabulary then to describe it.

And Du57mi73 I agree with your warm bath, warm salt water advice too. It also makes sense even as the layer is most likely not an emulsion right? Because I never added the actual NaCl from the recipe it still needs to be added. The naptha thing was weird. I've done many small extractions all stb and vast majority were cyb's in a sep funnel. I've been lucky and this is the first issue I've ever encountered...it was always "follow the directions" for me. I let this soup sit for a couple days and it wouldn't give it back! I just now walked over to it after a month and it still pretty much looks the same...no real naptha layer, but definitely a more viscous layer on the bottom and middle kinda different layer and soup on top...i'm going to try and grab a pic in a second.

WhooHoo!!! A potential cherry (with no food dye) on top of a rather blasé day. Now, to the kitchen...
rabies_70 attached the following image(s):
IMAG1175.jpg (1,840kb) downloaded 127 time(s).
Ray
 
Du57mi73
#5 Posted : 5/28/2014 5:32:12 AM
Oh WOW. That is DEFINITELY not what I thought you were talking about. Man, honestly I'd say just dump it and start over. That looks no good and I dont know why. I've tried alot of experiments but I've never had it turn out like that. Hmmmm.

Your problem obviously lies with the MagSulf, but I dont think what was explained is what happened because mag sulfate is only a dessicant when it has the ability to grab water, and Epsom salts are sold as Mag Sulfate Heptahydrate, which already have all the water molecules attached to them... So it is my assumption that it cant be used for a dessicant without dehydrating it. But thats besides the point.

Man.. Yea. I can see everything now. I don't even know what to suggest.. I've used mag sulfate before it did make my bark grey like that, but it didnt make the WHOLE thing grey. Just the particles that dried at the top of the jar, the solution was still black though for me. so.. maybe... try adding some hot salt water? Thats all i can say. I wouldnt add any more solvent or lye to it because it most likely will end up being a failed experiment. Sorry man. Next time if you do want to use some mag sulfate(i hear it 4x stronger than salt for adding ionic strength), only use like 10g, and 10g of regular salt.

First thing you should do is decant the solvent off the top. Then add some hot salt water. Shake that up gently, and let it sit. See if any more solvent pops out. Honestly, if you decant your solvent and you get back about the same amount you put into it then I wouldnt even worry about anything else. It doesnt matter what it looks like if the job was done, right? Hahaha.

What I dont like about your jar is the fact that the base soup is actually that middle layer, which means beneath that must be some sort of mag sulfate drained bark.. Because if you notice on regular jars, the same thing happens with the 3 layers before the bark is broken down, its just all of a similar color so its hardly noticeable.

Let us know what you try to fix it and how it turns out. Good luck! lol
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 
 
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