According to this article there is a 4 ribbed trichocereus which according to the natives is the most potent strain, but also the rarest. " The indigenous people of the andes recognize several “kinds” of San pedro, distinguished by the number of ribs. Cacti with seve ribs are the least potent and most common. Cacti with four ribs are rare , considedered the more potent and belived to have special power because each rib correspond with one of the “four winds”. The four winds and the four roads are supernatural powers associated with the four cardinal directions. " Is this the holy grail for us growers/consumers? Does anyone here knows them and has experience with them? I will try to find some in cacti nurseries here and to do an extraction to compare yield to my regular 7 ribs. Let's see if this myth can be busted.
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I had a 4 ribbed san pedro which was very thin, it was about 60cm but for some reason i decided to cut it all upp with roots and harvest the whole thing... Anyway me and a friend shared most of it and we both had a very strong trip, probably my strongest cacti sesion so far. I felt very bad after i cut it upp and really regret it 
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That sounds promising! Thanks for your reply and don't feel bad about eating it; that some reason was probably just the cactus screaming for and your friend you to eat it.
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I think the currandero in "wizard of the 4 winds" worked with the 4 ribbed pedros. Long live the unwoke.
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I have a T. bridgesii that produced 16 inches of a 4-ribbed column this past summer.
Interestingly it was the only bridgesii i have that also had a White Sage growing in its container...
Can't report on its effects though. I will certainly be saving this piece for a special occasion. (Perhaps the approaching Solstice).
I recall a talk by Wendy Lucky at a Shamanism conference in Peru where she states that the 4-ribbed cacti are indeed very strong, and can easily transport one to the hell-realms, so that their use is traditionally restricted to the curandera; it is the 6- and 7-ribbed cacti that are generally provided to the client.
The effect of rib number on qualitative experience is a fascinating, though obscure, subject indeed.
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Here is a nice article about this topic. Formula for computing a cactus' surface included. 
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@ Blue lunar night: So a regular one can get an 4 rib offspring. That's the perfect comparison case. I'm really curious if that part of the cactus will give you a stronger experience than the rest. Hope to hear about your experience later on. @ Nicita: thanks for the link, i always wanted to calculate a cactus surface  It could have something to do with less ribs --> less spikes --> less defense against predators --> more alkaloid production.
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I have a bridgesii that was 4 ribbed when I got the cutting. It has since decided to be 5 ribbed. Nagdeo
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in a culture where fire ants are harbingers of death the plant medicines are supernaturally revered, and stigmatized. as a scientist, without witnessing a phenomenon, i cant honestly say there is a phenomenon anyone who has had experience with 4 ribs please share cacti often gain or lose a rib during growth too as far as practical potency goes the monstrosse variety of trichocereus bridgesii have been repeatedly favored. achuma puma
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ipumaestro wrote:anyone who has had experience with 4 ribs please share
cacti often gain or lose a rib during growth too.
as far as practical potency goes the monstrosse variety of trichocereus bridgesii have been repeatedly favored. Yup. I had a bridgesii seedling lose a rib going from 7 to 6 right before they went outside last summer. Trouts notes indicate that montrose/penis plant bridgesii are fairly potent as well. Not absolute, and they grow pretty slowly so the advantage is debatable as far as practicality. But they're kind of like peyote in that respect. You get to develop a relationship with the plant over the years, before actually getting intimate with it. I love me my montroses, active or not. They are beautiful. "let those who have talked to the elves, find each other and band together" -TMK
In a society in which nearly everybody is dominated by somebody else's mind or by a disembodied mind, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn the truth about the activities of governments and corporations, about the quality or value of products, or about the health of one's own place and economy.
In such a society, also, our private economies will depend less upon the private ownership of real, usable property, and more upon property that is institutional and abstract, beyond individual control, such as money, insurance policies, certificates of deposit, stocks, etc. And as our private economies become more abstract, the mutual, free helps and pleasures of family and community life will be supplanted by a kind of displaced citizenship and by commerce with impersonal and self-interested suppliers...
The great enemy of freedom is the alignment of political power with wealth. This alignment destroys the commonwealth - that is, the natural wealth of localities and the local economies of household, neighborhood, and community - and so destroys democracy, of which the commonwealth is the foundation and practical means.” - Wendell Berry
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Poekus wrote:
It could have something to do with less ribs --> less spikes --> less defense against predators --> more alkaloid production.
It's a good idea, but I'm not sure. At least, it doesn't hold between species, since peruvianus cacti are some spiny bastards. Try moving one of them around without gloves! It could very well be true, though. Perhaps the hormones that control alkaloid production are tied to rib/spine amount. If that was true, then cacti that lose a rib should get stronger. If they're unrelated, it could just be genes. I wanna find some four ribbed ones! I read an article a while ago on erowid, that I think was removed because of copyright conflict. I can't find it, and don't remember the author or title. I do remember it centered around a curaderna who's wisdom said the even number spined cacti were bad and the odd were good. Supposedly the even numbered ones made people sick during the experience, had negative energy and were weak. I'm not sure, as I had two killer times with my 8 ribbed peruvian torch, but then the article was about san pedro. Be an adult only when necessary.
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After some more reading about this on the web it almost always seems to be a Bridgessii which forms four ribs from the start or later on.
On DMT-nexus lots of people also claim bridgessi are more potent.
It still wonders me if that power really has something to do with rib/spine count or maybe those shamans are right and it has something to do with the four winds symbolic (i'm more into scientific explainations).
It also amazes me that so less documented studies are available on the Mescaline containing cacti. It's almost all from the 50ies,60ies and 70ies and very limited.
Maybe I'll sacrifice one of my Peruvianus. I have several in the same grow stage grown from the same seed batch. Now if I despine 1 of them carefully and use special paste against infections (I think deribbing wil be too much of stress). Then wait for a year and perform an identical extraction on the despined and a normal one. If it really matters it should show up on the scale.
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Mr.Peabody wrote:Poekus wrote:
It could have something to do with less ribs --> less spikes --> less defense against predators --> more alkaloid production.
It's a good idea, but I'm not sure. At least, it doesn't hold between species, since peruvianus cacti are some spiny bastards. Try moving one of them around without gloves! It could very well be true, though. Perhaps the hormones that control alkaloid production are tied to rib/spine amount. If that was true, then cacti that lose a rib should get stronger. If they're unrelated, it could just be genes. I wanna find some four ribbed ones! I read an article a while ago on erowid, that I think was removed because of copyright conflict. I can't find it, and don't remember the author or title. I do remember it centered around a curaderna who's wisdom said the even number spined cacti were bad and the odd were good. Supposedly the even numbered ones made people sick during the experience, had negative energy and were weak. I'm not sure, as I had two killer times with my 8 ribbed peruvian torch, but then the article was about san pedro. If you read Ross Heaven's "Hummingbird's Journey to God" there is an exerp from a curandera they call "La Gringa" who talks about the significance of the number of ribs for different purposes. Nagdeo
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i feel like unless you personally learn/assign/understand the difference in specimens (ribs/spine count) they are irrelevant taking someone elses experiences and treating them as law is ill advised in my book explore and take notes, maybe someday one will come to know the cacti on such an intimate level preparation is just as important as the specimen as well as the intent. with so many variables its hard to say that the rib/spine count is what categorizes the experience achuma puma
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i agree ipum also the mind is powerful- if you think 4 ribs will be stronger- then to you it might be
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I completely agree ipumaestro. It's just interesting to learn about the ancient wisdom. And as we can see here, they some times conflict. There could be valid scientific explanations for any of these ideas, and it's possible they are all true in some way. I think the best thing you can do is get your own cacti growing from ones you know first hand are good. My torch I have is quite potent, and offered a nice trip. Now I'll only have to wait a year or two for the same amount! dg, You hit the nail on the head. This is all about the mind, ultimately! That's why we can have so many explanations, the mind is powerful. That's why science exists, because it tries to counter the power of the mind to find objective truth. I just wish there was more information about these cacti! Be an adult only when necessary.
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Mr.Peabody wrote:There could be valid scientific explanations for any of these ideas, and it's possible they are all true in some way. I think the best thing you can do is get your own cacti growing from ones you know first hand are good. That's one of the beauties of a psychedelic experience. It'll often confront me with my urge to find logical explanations for things. These episodes can be difficult but normally are the prologue to that experience of Oneness. That clear feeling of acceptance that all is all and therefor finding the urge to explain is not relevant. The ego, which imo is nothing more than the way you explain things to yourself, switched off during that heavenly infnite moment of tapping into the Source. I believe that this experience is the most valuable a human can have during it's ego controlled existence. Indeed growing you own cacti is a good thing to do and I also have a nice collection. Bost of the consumption comes from imported peruvian cactus I have to admit.For me that doesn't matter because I don't believe that growing them yourself really influence that state of oneness. That's something you do yourself and of course there are a lot of variables how the experience will come, but that Oness is not affected by any. Consider the urge to find ways to predict an high alkaloid cactus as a way to eat as less of that horrible matter as possible or to gain as much mescaline as possible to enter shat beautiful state .
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There are some clones out there that tend to have four ribs, they are active but not reported better or worse than average.
Some in the Andes prefer 7 ribbed plants...
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