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arsenic based life Options
 
actualfactual
#1 Posted : 12/3/2010 1:33:43 AM
here is the full paper for anyone who wants to see it

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/...imon-science.1197258.pdf
 
shishigami
#2 Posted : 12/4/2010 3:52:29 AM
This is fascinating. I wonder what repercussions there are of substituting the significantly larger arsenic for phosphorous. My guess would be that the macro-molecules that were noted with the substitution would be less stable but I don't what that would mean for the organism itself. More mutations?
 
benzyme
Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert
#3 Posted : 12/4/2010 4:12:47 AM
not much difference

same number of valence electrons, same number of bonds
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
shishigami
#4 Posted : 12/4/2010 5:39:38 AM
benzyme wrote:
not much difference

same number of valence electrons, same number of bonds


I do realize that, the substitution couldn't occur at all if As and P had different valence electrons.

Quickly looking it up shows that the sizes aren't that different.
P has an atomic radius of 100 pm when derived empirically while As has an atomic radius of 115 pm.
 
VisualDistortion
#5 Posted : 12/4/2010 8:36:03 PM
benzyme wrote:
not much difference

same number of valence electrons, same number of bonds


Why don't we see this in other biological life though?
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
benzyme
Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert
#6 Posted : 12/4/2010 10:25:23 PM
aha

that is the real question.

the answer is...











































































no.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
VisualDistortion
#7 Posted : 12/4/2010 10:32:35 PM
What?
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
benzyme
Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert
#8 Posted : 12/4/2010 10:45:28 PM
ok.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
shishigami
#9 Posted : 12/4/2010 10:53:44 PM
benzyme wrote:
ok.


Are you kidding?

VisualDistortion wrote:
Why don't we see this in other biological life though?


I'm not sure on this one either. According to the paper there are substitutions between other similar elements but not any of the "needed six." I guess another important question is why is arsenic poisonous at all? It seems to inhibit a few necessary enzymes but I don't know why it would if it and P are so similar.
 
VisualDistortion
#10 Posted : 12/5/2010 12:33:05 AM
There electronegativity is similar too.

Similar atomic radius, electronegativity, same number of valence electrons. It is a pretty common water contaminant too so you thing there would be a lot of bacteria exploiting the Arcenic niche. Maybe there are, and this is only the first one scientist have discovered.

Since I'm speculating, Maybe the orbitals hybridize differently than Phosphorous. Or the d shell electrons have something to do with it?
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
polytrip
Senior Member
#11 Posted : 12/5/2010 10:46:28 PM
VisualDistortion wrote:
There electronegativity is similar too.

Similar atomic radius, electronegativity, same number of valence electrons. It is a pretty common water contaminant too so you thing there would be a lot of bacteria exploiting the Arcenic niche. Maybe there are, and this is only the first one scientist have discovered.

Since I'm speculating, Maybe the orbitals hybridize differently than Phosphorous. Or the d shell electrons have something to do with it?

That's the reason why it's poisonous...because it is so simmilar. But not simmilar enough. It will take the place of phosphor in any organism, but then the cell appears not to function like it should anymore.
 
VisualDistortion
#12 Posted : 12/6/2010 2:28:16 PM
Hmmm
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
VisualDistortion
#13 Posted : 12/9/2010 3:31:50 AM
Finding caught amid a fire storm

LINK
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
 
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