That's nothing compared to what we'll never see footage of.

It's one thing to be a soldier called to duty. It's another thing entirely when you treat your job like a video game. Complete disregard for the life you are taking. I agree this is pretty sick.

Yeah exactly.

I just find it so weird the way they talk so casual about it. Insanity comes in many forms and I believe this level in de-sensitivity to be one of them. It's all part of the training.

Hmmmmmmm,

and what sort of regard should you have for the lives of enemy combatants?

I couldnt tell from that video if people were carrying guns or cameras. I will assume they were carrying guns, thats the reason they were terminated.

I served two combat tours one in Somalia years ago and one in Iraq. I am a disabled veteran. I served 16+ years with the United States Marine Corps. I am very proud of my service. I am not proud of some of the things I had to do. I have seen some things that make that video you posted look more like Martha Stewart living. You think thats ugly and fukked up? Well I have news for you, I gets much worse.

War is ugly. War is survival.

Whats wrong with being casual about it? Would you rather our troops be more Un-casual? Maybe panic be stressed out, jacked up excited out of control?

Taking lives is serious business and should be conducted with extreme violence and extreme prejudice, but our soldiers, Marines, and airman need to be as calm and as clinical as possible. They should not allow emotions interfere with the job at hand. War is dangerous and confusing, the conduct of war needs to remain as calm and clinical as possible so that we dont inadvertanly kill friendlies or innocent by standers.

War is a horrible fact of life. Come on guys give em a brake. Thats a shitty job.

They were sent in by a bunch of fukked up politicians.

They are doing the best they can.

You think they are a bunch of baby killin war mongers?

The men and women who serve are some of the earths greatest humanitarians. The put themselves in harms way every day to help people.They just want to survive and return home to their families.

Its pretty easy for you to watch an edited propaganda video from you tube and play armchair quarterback. You dont have a clue.

Until youve been there, You nay want to consider your company when making comments about this topic.

Notice what was the first thing the guys who arrived on the ground was? They started helping the wounded, They tried to medivac them to a hospital.

My hopes and prayers are that the slaughter and butchery is over as soon as possible so that our troops can come home and so that the opressed may someday be able to pick up the pieces and put their lives together again.

God willing

Icehouse its not a propaganda video. Its undiluted footage. They shot a journalist carrying a camera and everyone knows it. Its unfortunate and the people who did it obviously didn't realize it at the time. Who knows how they feel about it now. I'd imagine pretty bad.

Regardless its a war its naive to pretend like things like this won't happen. I like what wikileaks is doing. The world will benefit from this kind of information being available.

Ice House, they were cameras, not guns. They mistakenly identified two people as carrying weapons and opened fire, killing all of them. They were journalists. When a truck came to pick up the injured, they opened fire on that. The truck had children in it, which were wounded. The pilots response was "Well, it's their fault for bringing their kids to a battle".

That is fucked up. I respect the fact that you have served, and will have an insight most here will not. But to defend what you see in this clip? Come on. This is not a propaganda video, why do you suggest it is? It is a recording of a mission.

So, you ask what regard should they have for enemy combatants? Not that it is relevant in this case, because they were not combatants, but I would suggest respecting them as a start. This does not mean soldiers cannot be ruthless and violent when they are in attack.

True, they were sent to Iraq by politicians, but all voluntered to do so. To call these pilots humanitarians is, frankly, ludicrous.

Actually that vid in OP is edited. It is propaganda, just because you disagree with it doesn't make it not propaganda.

I meant the original wikileaks post I didn't watch this video but I've seen the original. Its available unedited.

I'll just leave this here...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI

The video is edited. Look at it closely there were tags put on it labeling the names of people in the video and labeling cameras.


The video is absolutely not

I am not arguing weather or not the people killed were innocent. The quite possibly were. I dont know. I wasnt there. The troops that were there felt that there was danger and that some of the people were armed.

I'm interested to know here, Are there people who are reading this post that think that the troops deliberately murdered innocent people? Do you think that the weapons were just a fabrication in order to get permission to shoot?

I believe, weather it was right or wrong, that the troops involved thought that they were doing the correct thing. I believe they saw weapons not cameras.

I believe the video is being used as propaganda, hence the editing and the tags.

I'm not getting into this conversation. You obviously are letting your pride delude yourself. I agree that most likely the people firing thought they were armed. But to not admit that it was a horrible mistake is disgraceful. To pretend like US soldiers haven't ever shot innocent people for no reason is absurd.

Because this person says so, well then, it is so.

If another person paints a picture that leans toward justified killings then you would call them a liar.

I am against violence. I do support the troops. It's not the troops fault that innocents are killed. Collateral damage is a fact of life in the fog of war. Just like it is in every neighborhood in america. The BAME falls directly onto the Bush administration and now on the current commander and chief. You put an 18 year old boy into combat against islamic fudamentalism what do you expect. people walk into their camps and convoys and blow themselves up. What do you expect. They are just trying to survive.

When its my life or theirs, I'm going to shoot first and ask questions later. If I'm wrong, well, thats shitty and I'll have to sort that out later. I'm a survivor. I choose to live at any cost.

life is precious. and these fuckers have no reverence for it.

I dont pretend it doesnt happen it does. I'm not PROUD of what is going on there. I know innocents get killed. Killing innocents is always a horrible mistake.

These mistakes will happen in war. War is shitty. I hate it more than anyone. We shouldnt be there in the first place.

I'm not deluded by pride. I am wounded for life because of my service over there. The men and women on the ground are doing the best they can in a fukked up situation.

The blame rests squarely on the former and current presidents of the United States.

Life is precious. Interesting, I have never seen a single posting or complaint about the Islamic funamentalists who behead westerners or who stone there own innocent people. Or walk into a crowded market and kill hundreds of their own people.

- you mean the US troops fying the planes?

hmmmm

What about the terrorists on the ground that they are engaging?

I am not saying I believe 100% what Ethan (the soldier who WAS there) says. I know it's a lot more complex.

I know war is business and that this kind of tragedies happen, but still, Ethan's opinion is something that should be taken into consideration.

I agree that war is shitty.

Ice house sorry look I'm letting other emotions get in way of reasonable conversation. I hear what you mean and I largely agree with most of what you said. The problem is you are not even looking at the evidence. The people mistakenly shot journalists working for Reuters news organization. Everyone knows this. No one is denying it. It was a mistake. They didn't shoot terrorists.

We all know things like this happen and I don't blame the soldiers. I just don't like it when people don't admit to mistakes. Especially when those mistakes kill people. Terrorists don't take innocent lives into consideration when they go bombing markets we shouldn't disregard innocent lives either otherwise how different are we?

burnt,

Thank you. I am extremely sorry if my words have offended anyone. I lived through this experience twice both times for a year. I am also very emotional about this topic.

I love all people. If there is one lesson I took from my combat time and that is that life is precious and war is wrong.

When I'm on the ground in a foriegn land and people are trying to kill me. I'm gonna do what it takes to come home.

I appologize if I offended anyone while I was attempting to covey my opinion.

sincerly and respectfully,

Ice House

Its a touchy topic especially if you've been involved in it or know people who've been involved in it.



Who wouldn't?

I dunno I hope the world can learn from shit like this. But when you look at the state of affairs it doesn't seem so hopeful.