Holy BUFO TOADS Batman! LOL, anybody have any "friends" out there who have milked a Toad?

Seriously though, nature is providing us with nectar of the gods from these little critters

http://www.5meodmt.net/natural5meodmt.htm

MindSpace67

i would never go toad licking. many toad venoms can kill you.

I believe virola contains mainly 5-MEO-DMT.

SWIM extracted alkaloids from Virola and found the effects are clearly only that of 5-MeO-DMT. It does contain DMT, but the amount is so small that the 5-MeO-DMT completely overpowers the effects of the DMT.

Also, 5-MeO-DMT can be easily separated from the DMT if needed.

How?
My friend started a whole damn thread on this a week ago on another forum and has had eight views and zero replies.
Seems it would be an oft asked question.

hey dude
could please give us some more info
do you know a good method for that separation? i think we should start a thread on that
sort of alkaloid isolation , that would keep swim busy for ages heheheheh
also besides 5-MeO-DMT it contains 5-OH-DMT (Bufotenine)

69ron,

I'm really interrested to know how the guy you are speaking about is able to extract 5Meo from virola.
A friend of a friend has some virola bark since a while, not knowing the best way to extract 5Meo. He thought using a classic A/B like with MH but he wonder if a first extraction with ethanol (or acetone ?) would not be a good start ?

chromatography would certainly work and be rather easy to separate those two compounds, but since most people aren't messing with that world of chemistry you could probably take advantage of the solubility in various solvents, different pka that kinda thing.

as far as extracting just follow the same types of procedures used to generally isolate alkaloids A/B. sorry don't know anything more specific..

According to SWIM, 5-MeO-DMT citrate is nearly insoluble in acetone, but DMT citrate is very soluble in acetone.

So, just dissolve freebase 5-MeO-DMT and freebase DMT in a small amount of acetone, add 10% citric acid solution pre-dissolved in acetone, stir and 5-MeO-DMT citrate precipitates out of the acetone and the DMT citrate stays dissolved in the acetone along with the remaining excess citric acid.

SWIM discovered this by accident a few months ago and doesn’t know of a single reference to this. SWIM also doesn’t know the optimum amount of acetone to use yet.

SWIM says it works well, but sometimes there’s still a little 5-MeO-DMT in the acetone if too much acetone is used.

Sounds simple enough to me.

absolutely... column with silica (60 micron would work), and a gradient of ethyl acetate:methanol added, twice.

The method SWIM discovered (shown in my post above) is much easier than using column chromatography. All you do is mix and filter. Anyone can do it and it doesn’t require any special equipment. The acetone and the citric acid are easily obtained over the counter.

yes of course. how are you sure of purity tho?

Hello MindSpace67. Did you ever think to ask the toad what it thinks about all this? These toads are an endangered spiecies in the wild. Do you think it helps if we go out and milk them? Your only interest in Bufo Alvarius is its venom. If people's only interest in me, was my drug stash, I know what I'd think about them.

There are plenty of other less offensive ways of aquirring 5Meo. Its still pretty much legal. I hope you learn some cooking skills.

But honestly, who really cares about absolute purity? Unless you are doing scientific research, having a very tiny amount of DMT in your 5-MeO-DMT is not going to be noticeable. The acetone citrate precipitation method SWIM provided works good enough for SWIM. The average person wanting a pure 5-MeO-DMT trip will notice it is clean of any DMT effects, but I'm sure there are probably traces of DMT in it. Besides who's going to want to bother with column chromatography just so that they can get a tiny bit more purity? It's a lot of trouble. SWIM sure wouldn't bother with that unless there was no other way. If traces of DMT are present in your 5-MeO-DMT, you are not going to feel it. SWIM sure can’t tell the different between the effects of pure 5-MeO-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT isolated using the acetone citrate method, so whatever amount is present it is too small to feel. SWIM is very happy with the acetone citrate precipitation method.

SWIM has the equipment for column chromatography, and does it from time to time when needed, and like most others out there, SWIM hates doing column chromatography. If there’s a faster, easier way, SWIM never runs a column. I think most feel the same. Running a column is just a pain in the ass, unless you have one of those automated setups that cost quite a lot of money.

yes i am not saying that i would recommend running a column to get small amounts of any of these compounds its definatly not worth it.

was just curious on some other details of the seperation. ie is it pure enough to take and not notice the impurities. i understand its not necessary to get any more pure then that for what most people here want. i work with isolation often so sorry its all i think about sometimes

Manually running a column can be a fun science experiment to show people. For example, separating the colors of a mixed color solution is usually a fun project for the kids to watch. Pour in the black liquid, and then watch as the red, yellow, and blue colors separate in the column. You see everyone’s eyes light up as the colors start to separate. But separating colorless 5-MeO-DMT from colorless DMT is a lot more difficult. It’s not something you can simply eyeball. There are ways of forcing human detectable colors by the addition of other chemicals. For example, a specific salt form of both alkaloids might be red for one, but colorless for the other. This way you can visually see them separating in the column. But you need color reaction data on both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT before this is possible. Where can this be found? Another option is that the collected batches are simply analyzed later by some other technique. There are many different ways to tackle this problem.

The thing SWIM hates about running a manual column is all the preparation. You have to first clean the column very well, which is hard because of its shape. Then you have to put a plug at the bottom, which is also hard sometimes. Then you need to add the stationary phase, eluent, etc. And there can’t be any air bubbles present. Then when it’s all ready you pour in your pre-dissolved alkaloids. Then you need to sit and watch it, and collect all these different batches. Then after you’re finally done, you need to remove the stationary phase, plug, etc., and rinse the column again. Oh what a pain. Sometimes it’s really hard to get the plug back out especially if anything you poured in became sticky.

With plant extractions sometimes there are all sorts of unknown things present that mess up the process. Sometimes the column becomes clogged or runs really slowly. Sometimes the alkaloid you want comes out along with other plant compounds unless the right solvent or solvent mix is used. It can take forever to figure out the right solvent mix if there are no references to follow for a particular alkaloid. Usually the fraction is just run again in a longer column.

I’m sure you know all of this, but I think most people hear “just run a column” and think it’s a pretty simple lab procedure. It’s not, it’s a lot of work and you do run into problems with the procedure sometimes.

There are cases when column chromatography is the only procedure that works well.

Column chromatography is definitely very useful when you need to separate dozens of alkaloids from a plant alkaloid extract. For example, an Anadenanthera colubrina alkaloid extract contains about a dozen different alkaloids. Column chromatography is the only good method for separating all the alkaloids present. But if you’re just targeting one or two alkaloids, then alkaloid precipitation using a solvent + acid or solvent + base mix is usually much easier if possible.

The disadvantage of using acetone citrate precipitation is that there are alkaloids other than 5-MeO-DMT citrate that will precipitate out. This is primarily good for separating 5-MeO-DMT from DMT. The DMT citrate remains in the acetone, but the 5-MeO-DMT precipitates out. It will not separate 5-MeO-DMT from bufotenine. Bufotenine will precipitate out along with the 5-MeO-DMT. There are other methods for separating 5-MeO-DMT from bufotenine. The one SWIM uses is to dissolve freebase MeO-DMT and freebase bufotenine in heptane (or naphtha). Freebase bufotenine is insoluble in heptane (or naphtha) but freebase 5-MeO-DMT is soluble in it. The bufotenine sinks to the bottom of the heptane and is easily filtered out.

i totally agree with the difficulties in running successful columns. its not trivial and its not something i would not recommend to people who are not experienced in the isolation of natural products. with many natural prodcut isolations chromatography is essential especially if you need pharmaceutical grade purity, reference compounds, etc etc. thats not the case here i was just speculating.

alkaloids you can often take advantage of their various solubilities salts and pka values to partition them especially in mixtures with only a couple compounds (which is what you did in a very nice way i might add).

anyway cool. the lesson dont mess with columns unless you are a chemist it'll be a waste of your time.