High there is a plenty of detailed information in the "All about Aya thread" about using Chacurna as the admixture plant in Ayahuasca but not so much about Chaliponga.

My question is, when you reduce the chaliponga there is a lot of sediment in it. Do you filter out the sediment with a coffee filter or do you just reduce and drink straight?

I have never tried chaliponga so this is just theoretical:

the alkaloids in chaliponga should be water soluble so they will be in the water, meaning you can remove the (probably bad tasting) sediment and drink only the liquid.

Great thanks. Swims just taken some without sediment.

It's not very visual. It's perhaps very slightly visual. Swim took about 15g of leaves and boiled them in a 3 litre pot for 9 hours and reduced the water to about 150ml and drank about 50ml.

Swim used Caapi to activated it and took an average dose of Caapi. Swim boiled about 150g of Caapi for 9 hours and reduced to about 150ml put it through a coffee filter and drank 1/3 of it.

After eating a bowl of porridge now, Swim feels slightly nauseous and has a slight head space and that's about it.

I don't ever drink the sediment--just the water results in forceful projectile vomiting for me.

I do not have more information on Chaliponga, because I do not get very much from when I drink it. It is cold, indifferent, and uninterested in me. But some say that is the nature of the plant. Visuals are dark, blue, purple, grey, with elements of the jungle and outerspace. Insects and hands with glowing eyeballs... but you have to look closely.

Also, if you have not worked much with Aya, it may take a few attempts at a brew before she really opens up to you. I have a friend who drank the same dose 6 times before he broke through... what you say can be normal. It is like dating. You have to win her heart. Then, slowly, she lets you in closer... as the trust between the two of you builds. It is most rewarding as a devoted practice. The first few times she meets people, I feel her spirit enter the room, but she refuses to work on newcomers, preferring to run silent diagnostics instead.

Love and perseverance. If the Chaliponga isn't working and you dosed/brewed correctly, you should still experience HEAVY effects from the Caapi.

50g may be WAY too little, depending on the type of vine (I like around 120g of a gentle white vine, and most others need closer to 200g--but it is also wiser to start lower first, until you are certain this is the kind of vine you have, and not, say, a cielo that will blow your skull apart at 30g). Did you change the water and do three separate washes at three hours each? Did you acidify?

If you feel nothing 1.5-2hrs after drinking, I would recommend dosing the vine again to feel out the dosage you need.

Swim acidified with a generous dash white vinegar every time Swim added more water (which was about every 20 minutes or so),but he didn't separate any washes. That might be the problem.

Swim just boiled the whole 150g of yellow Caapi for 9 hours and then reduced and filtered. Swim felt a noticeable head space but nothing compared to 150mg of rue extract taken in OJ. Swim didn't feel much nausea either.

150 mg of rue extract can be very strong (if it's almost the pure alkaloids) but you will notice that caapi is a whole lot different. She is a much gentler teacher than rue who can be sort of mercyless at times.

Pharmacologically I think it's the THH in caapi that really makes the difference.

I have to say that SWIMs deeper experiences have been with chagropanga (chaliponga). It gives you of course not those colourful, "playful" visions like mimosa will give you. But there will be "more sophisticated" visions at decent doses (try dosing beyond 10g) and those visions are unique. A lot more "jungle like". SWIM saw old trees, hundreds or even thousands of years old. He saw ancient writings, probably maya like. It can be very impressive.

But most of all, SWIM gets far better insights when using ayahuasca brewed with chagropanga. He also likes adding some chacruna. With chacruna you always have the problem of getting really potent leaves. The most potent plants you will find while in Peru, but you will probably never be able to buy them online in another country. With chagropange this seems to be different, you can find very good ones here. But combining them seems to be an interesting brew. Getting enough DMT from the chagropange but also having the chacruna in it (some people even do this with mimosa but SWIM has never tried that).

Visuals are great but insight is where it's at.

So far swim has taken DMT only twice (rue + TTH + DMT in OJ) but has had insights that have made the experience very worthwhile indeed. Some of the experiences were difficult (looking at the lives of loved ones who may be suffering). But Swim has been given a new perspective on life with all its absurdity and mystery for which swim is truly grateful.


Regarding Chacruna. It's expensive and also bulky so shipping it is expensive.Where as chaliponga and mimosa are relatively inexpensive. How would using Mimosa + chali compare to Chacruna + Chali?

chacruna and chaliponga realy complement eachother. I would definately go for that combo.
You realy get the best of both worlds there, although it's quite heavy.
A shattering but beautyfull experience.

As for filtering and changing the water during the brewing process, someone used the analogy: if you wash three loads of laundry, the clothes will be cleaner with fresh water each time... instead of the same dirty water the whole way through. I think you might improve the strength of your brew it you filter.

A dash of Chaliponga with a modest dose of a second admixture (Chacruna, or, I have done this with Mimosa), seems to yield better Chaliponga-related results.