Shocking and unexpected news for the peanut gallery of geniuses here at Nexus...

I am sharing a writeup I made for another forum (it's almost 6am and I should go to bed, my apologies for the unoriginality).

I am trying to discern: WTF happened to me?! No... seriously... WTF... there is a lack of coherent information on the internet to explain the intensity of the phenomenon (I think good old Albino-Waite would give me better insight ATM)... and this is FASCINATING!!

My only concern, at this point, is my physical safety. I'm pretty sure it's solid, but I'd like to pass on the 2010 Darwin award, so any feedback would be cherished.

*** AYAHUASCA AND MELATONIN ***

Is there any real danger of a hypotensive crisis? I've worked with Mama numbering in the hundreds of times, meet with her weekly, and have gone on and off with periods of daily microdosing. I've been microdosing everyday since the solstice, presently.

Intrigued by the positive claims surrounding melatonin, I acquired a natural, organic, food-based supplement (wheatgrass, barley grass, red clover, and nothing else). It is literally GRASS CLIPPINGS IN A GEL CAP, and the total amount of melatonin per capsule is 0.3 *MICROGRAMS.* Nearly almost nothing, compared synthetic supplements. I like whole foods, whole plants... eating grass and hamming giant slices of vine...

Enter health/diet: I've been experimenting for several months with a basically fruitarian diet (90%+ fruit, a bit of sprouts/greens/seaweeds/algae/nuts/seeds), for purposes of optimum neurological function (vitamin C and flavonoids), sensitization to entheogens, and overall mental/physical health. (The three feel like they belong together...) Long story short, results are profound (pink tongue, moles falling off, building muscle, better sleep, better mood), AND, my experiences with yoga and entheogens are likewise unparalleled. It's been deep.

So, I microdosed ~5g of Caapi in the AM, and cracked open a gelcap into some water just before going to sleep late that night. My only concern was that I would feel drowsy the next day. Melatonin is reportedly safer than Ayahuasca; this was a shot of water with lawnmower refuse; the bottle warned of drowsiness, NOT ego death.

Well, Melatonin kicked my ass. Worse than the way Birdman kicked Wesley Willis' ass.

The comeup was immediate, and I panicked, totally unprepared for any psychoactive effects. I grew cold, trembled, felt nauseous, ran to the toilet about four times, and was slightly lightheaded. These are mild symptoms of hypotension; however, they are also all symptoms of a panic attack. I was fortunate enough to get a sympathetic person on the phone and the negative body symptoms decreased dramatically, which makes me think it was largely panic.

The melatonin also seemed to dredge up Caapi-like effects, feeling cold, tremors, and teeth chattering. This, without the burning question of, "Will my landlord find me passed out two weeks from now, on the floor, dead?" was not so bad, other than that it was totally unexpected and I had no idea when it would end.

The body load was strong, with undeniable overtones of Caapi.

I experienced mild visual distortions, paintings on the wall shifting and vividness of color. Sitting on the couch, I felt like I was sinking into quicksand. My body was extremely euphoric (when waves of shivers receded, this was amazing), it reminded me of Kratom, but much more intense. It was like having a giant, heavy blanket draped over my body that I couldn't remove. There was also an unending sense of dissolution, similar to a tryptamine launch, only without resolve, so I was melting into this warm and sinking, smothering ocean, endlessly.

I didn't smudge. My intentions were to go to sleep.

The body load subsided after about two hours, after which I felt AMAZING, calm, restored, clear, lucid, born again. I went outside in the morning sun and did some yoga. There was not an ounce of resistance anywhere in my body, exactly like the combination of entheogens and yoga. It was fantastic.

I slept, after that, for about two hours, and it was the most SOLID and RESTFUL sleep. I slept without earplugs for the first time in years, and floated through the most vivid lucid dream scenes.

Around 2pm, I decided to try another microdose (5g) of Caapi: the EXACT same thing happened all over again--clearly, there were lingering residual effects of the melatonin--but, the body load was not as fierce. I didn't panic, but there was still the smothering sense of dissolution-blanket-melting-caramel-quicksand; beneath that, though, there was an incredible state of bodily awareness that was much fun to explore. Caapi was potentiated, I felt the usual cold and tremors of a full Ayahuasca dose (that comes at 120g: not 5g: ridiculous potentiation!!). Heavy emotional content was also dredged by the vine, and actually took me to a space of resolving places of anxiety very early in my life--so I wonder how much of this began with the first dose, how much was psychological, related to panic, etc. I slept afterward, and lucid dreamed again, things directly related to what came up during the full-Caapi probe, which lasted about 45 minutes; there were dreams of childhood, playgrounds, sandboxes, dolls, and processing issues of early neglect.

Diet must clearly be playing a huge role: it has sensitized me to other things in similar ways, and I believe accounts for the difference between other people "smoothing out" the end of an Ayahuasca journey with ~10 *milligrams* of melatonin and no physical side effects, and an at-points-terrifying-gutteral-dissolving ego death with *POINT THREE MICROGRAMS* in my case.

I am fascinated; the positive body states that resulted from melatonin, and possibly the combination, are completely worth exploration, IMHO, *but* I also want to make absolutely sure that I'm not endangering my physical wellbeing in any way. I have never had a panic attack in my life. My next most ranking experiences in panic have been with cannabis in the past, which also plays a lot with melatonin.

So, any thoughts at all would be greatly appreciated. I'm still trying to make sense of it all!

My body clock was damaged by years of bartending in the past, so I'd like to go further with melatonin. I also originally sought Aya to conquer depression, so the microdosing is a charm; just wondering whether or not I should still persue them concurrently, and if not, how melatonin could possibly impact regular maxidose sessions with Ayahuasca.

Love and thanks! (and WTF, awesome, will aliens please scan my brain?)

"I have to lie in the middle of the floor completely motionless not daring to breathe"

And this just in from grasscity.com: "My old roommate also snorted a line of melatonin. Not a good idea at all, but hes alive, so its really pretty safe."

Wow minxx. That's crazy. Do be careful though.

Melatonin is crazy. I used to take it with marijuana at night and man what a combination to put you out. Made me not wanna wake up for another half day though.

Definitely entered some crazy states with it though.....just don't remember them, haha.

Update: sampled less than 1/8 of a capsule (took a full one yesterday), and there is still a fairly nasty and persistent body load. Conclusion, please don't try. Would love to hear more about why. =\

sorry guys. >.<

Good to hear from you, I was just wondering what you were up to. Unfortunately I know very little about melatonin and its effects (other than that the few times I've taken it I was very quickly asleep), but I have had very good results combining fasting, wheatgrass extract, and Torch/Pedro "juice". I find this combination synergistic to say the least. Apparently the melatonin in your supplement came from the barley grass; no melatonin in the wheatgrass. The effects you describe, with the "panic attack" and so forth, remind me of my own and others' experiences combining Caapi or Syrian Rue with cactus. Apparently none of the grasses in your supplement contain tyramine, but is it possible something else in the grasses, not melatonin, is responsible for these nasty effects you're experiencing?

.3 ug (300 ng) of melatonin is nothing. Literally this is not enough to be even close to active of any compound known. Maybe you meant 3 ug (which you did say at one point) but still this is nothing and is definitely not in the least bit an active level. 1-3 mg is an active dose of melatonin which results in barely noticeable effects. SWIM has taken 5 mg of melatonin combined with DMT several times and heard of many combos with ayahuasca. With DMT there was some mild interaction but not much. The duration seemed slightly enhanced however more research is required before any solid conclusions could be made. I do not think your experience was from this combination. Granted the MAOI could have had an effect but I think this is unlikely as many others did not get such an effect on much (10,000x) higher doses.

Sometimes we just have strong responses. People always want to try to associate them with "whatever they did differently that day" however sometimes these experiences just happen. Example) I have had amazingly intense experiences on 4mg of 5-MeO-MIPT whereas I have since then taken 10mg several times without the same level of intensity. These intense experiences happen. I think this may have been the case for you.

There is a chance that the other components of the "grass" or natural source of your melatonin had an effect on the experience. Many types of grasses contain beta-carboline alkaloids and it is especially likely that these would be present along side with melatonin (which is a precursor of b carbolines). However it seems unlikely that you took an active dose of these either but you never know.

I've experimented a good deal with melatonin and the most i get from it is some beautiful mind states, heavy body load + euphoria, breathing walls changing color, and a great nights sleep. It synergizes well with cannabis but i can't say much about caapi as i've only tried that combo once or twice back when i could microdose daily. This was months and months ago but from what i remember my dreams had never been that intense and lucid before. Very hyperspatial.

It is also definitely very rejuvenating feeling the morning after. But the doses were no where in the range of what you took though, it was always around 3-5mg. high doses tend to make me feel a bit hazy for a day or two. I've heard that a study revealed that the brains production of melatonin is increases by around a 1000% after only an hour of meditation, visualization exercises, or chanting. Not sure how much truth there is to that as i can't seem to find the study, but maybe that could have something to do with your experience.

Okay: insane experiences, part II.

I took ~5g of Caapi tea in the morning yesterday (well, 2pm), and consumed less than 1/8 of a magic grass capsule around 6am toady. I was really expecting nothing the second time, hoping for some melatonin goodness without the body load...

Hit me again, just as hard as it did the first time, and instead of last 2 hours, it lasted 5+ hours.

The warm and fuzzy blanket feeling was less present, but the body load was huge, more running to the bathroom, dizziness, slight strange feelings in the chest, but I managed the panic much better than the first time. I was still completely shocked that such a minute amount of a food substance would provoke this level of reaction.

Diet AND microdosing I really think are key. I was sensitive before while raw, and while microdosing, but switching to a fruit diet blew open some kind of floodgate. Fruit is loaded with enzymes, antioxidants, flavonoids... it completely alters the level of sensitivity. I've experienced similar curves with mushrooms, DMT, and cannabis following my change in diet. Fruit provokes powerful changes...

Now, for the CRAZY part.

I thought I was coming down about two hours in (that was how long it lasted the night before)... went and laid in bed.

I erupted into something of a primal frenzy and thrashed around. It was an ERUPTION, I was an animal, and distinctly felt a need for touch (interesting in light of psychological content being dredged).

Then an intense pressure filled my head. It felt like my head was being sucked into a black hole. Colors became so bright I couldn't bear to open my eyes (my place is covered with visionary artwork ), my vision improved so that everything seemed grainy (very similar to DMT), and I was swallowed by an intense vibration, our good friend The Carrier Wave.

Beyond that, I became intensely aware of my body's own electricity. My brain became self-aware, perceived itself (this is a hallmark Mimosa experience for me). All the colors became so bright that I saw inside my body, guts, neon, glowing, slimey, alive, an oozing living mass.

And then, I probably blacked out briefly. I'm still not at baseline.

Not sure WHAT is in the grass, but it's quite strong. Beware the body load. The supplement is called Asphalia.

When I take 1mg before sleep I have very vivid dreams, something I don't have without melatonine (almost never to be more exact).

I take my melatonine sublingual and I've notice a HUGE different in effects compared to oral use. I take my little 0.1 mg pills, about ten of them, and put them under my tongue and slowly suck on them until they are gone. This way the time before it starts working is reduced from 2 hours to about half an hour if you compare it to the oral use. Also, to get the same activity for the oral dose my guess is that I have to use at least twice the amount as what I use for sublingual, maybe even more.


That said however, I've noticed that melatonine together with kirkii is a real dream changer/enhancer. I've used kirkii about 5 times now and it has drastically changed my dreams and and how my dreams play out. With the kirki I have much more control inside the dream. Normally you have those dreaming moments where you can't walk fast enough, or you feel like you are running through thick syrup. With the kirkii no more, you can run fast, do the things you like and have way more control inside the dream.

And the funny things is that since I used the kirkii my dreams seem to have changed since that moment. Whenever I dream vividly now I still have that enhanced control over it, and that while my last dose of kirkii is weeks ago.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

First of all there are stories of melatonin potentiating tryptamine entheogens because it metabolizes into pinolin, wich helps prevent the breakdown of DMT by another enzyme than MAO.

But i remember having read a simmilar story from fractal enchantment about his experiences with caapi. He noticed that after a period of daily use of caapi, he started having realy deep and intense experiences with it, even more intense maybe than a normal DMT-trip.

I also remember acolon_5 telling that with caapi, you become more sensitive to it, after a period of regular use, instead of building up tolerance.

So these things happen with caapi.

I think that 0.3 microgram is too little. You must have meant, 0.3 milligrams.

Interesting. I take a lot of melatonin for sleep (maybe not the best habit to get into, but I've never felt any ill effects from it). I've taken it quite a few times both before vaporizing and with harmalas (anywhere between 1 and 5 mgs), and I can't personally say I've ever experienced any kind of potentiating effect.

Yeah I think its just the cappi more than dieting.

Ive taken melatonin with caapi, and also taken it with smoked rue and cannabis, with B vitamines etc..all kinds of combinations. With some harmalas in me, the melatonin always seemed to do something more. It is metabolised into pinoline..and I think with the rue or caapi in me the pinoline was more active..or like is theororized, it was then metabolized into 5-Meo-DMT..

and yeah polytrip .3 mics of melatonin is way way too little... .3mgs is more like it..I usually took 1-3 mgs.

Melatonin before cannabis can really make the cannabis a hell of alot more trippy.

Oh yes, melatonin I dont think is active,or has very little actvity orally..usually its advised to take it sublingually..but with caapi that might change.

Good responses. I have always contemplated using melatonin with DMT, as they are both neurotransmitters. This was Dr. Strassman's line of study, the pineal gland and melatonin. I have regularly been taking melatonin for about the last year, a couple times a week. This greatly enhances vividness in my dreams, lucidity and awareness. Although it also makes me feel groggy in the morning for a couple hours and trying to stay up on it things can be altering. For experimentation I have taken up to 30mg but could not differentiate the dose of say, 5mg because I suppose your brain only uses so much of it.

I think this combination with DMT could do something interesting, my concern is that when people say their DMT experiences are dream or lucid-like, more melatonin beforehand could alter one's experience. If there are any links between dreaming and DMT, it would most certainly be released simultaneously with melatonin.

This chemical you speak up polytrip is something I have been wanting to try. As I recall Strassman injected DMT + pinoline (or perhaps pindolol Im not sure), but that being an MAOI, doesn't sound like something Rick would use.

Well minxx I'm not sure what is causing your panic, perhaps just the use of something new.

Hey, just wanted to let you all know that 300 mics of melatonin is the ideal dose and once you go over 1mg it actually becomes counter-productive and your brain becomes desensitized to it

http://web.mit.edu/newso...2001/melatonin-1017.html

Also, melatonin is known for hypotension

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....406047?dopt=AbstractPlus

I think it's a lot of things together. There is potentiation by Caapi, for sure--but--add a diet LOADED with plant chemicals on top of that, and, I think it could be the recipe for a cauldron constantly boiling over with insanity. :O I've microdosed with Caapi many times over the past two years and experienced potentiation, but nothing REMOTELY CLOSE to this degree. This is a completely different playing field.

A few nights prior to this experience, I also smoked a Caapi extract in changa for the first time and I spent a good three hours in hell. Hit me enormously hard. I could be so saturated with MAOIs right now...

The melatonin is .3 micrograms, not milligrams, that's not a typo.

I wanted a chocolate smoothie tonight... I added a bit of cacao, and thought it would be safe to advance slowly. I had literally one big sip and tripped again for two hours. The effects were instantaneous. No exaggeration. Cacao is MAO-B, I believe, plus PEA and tons of other chemicals. Physically, I experienced light tremors and felt cold; psychologically, my entire being was undulating, I felt shifts of getting really worked up where I just wanted to yell because I was so overwhelmed (very familiar Ayahuasca experience), deep euphoria, hazily shifting and floating of being.

I just cracked open the neurochemical pinata.

I spoke with a woman tonight who said to be cautious with clover, too. If I can find anything interesting about clover, I'll share it here.

It might not just be the melatonin, although some of the symptoms I experienced sound like they could be attributed to melatonin. There are definitely a ton of variables at hand, but something super-interesting is going on.

THANK GOD I DIDN'T HAVE THE NUTMEG SMOOTHIE...

I still feel mildly weird and I've been purging a lot (woke up feeling wretchedly dehydrated, but drank lots of juice, had celery, tomato, olives, craved naturally salty things and felt way better).

How long would it take to clear the body completely of harmalas? I need to ground and get my head cool.

It's amazing... what's possible... but I'm hungry AND scared to eat... don't want a banana to suddenly metabolize into nine hours of DMT tonight. I do have to deal with the real world.

you know its interesting... it does almost sound like she had a 5meodmt caapi experience.

I've never smoked 5meo, but isn't the bodyload awful? I was wondering about that... eating grasses rich in melatonin... If the people here could say one definitive thing about grasses...

Jesus, girly. Take a day off!

I shudder to think just what hell might break loose if you ingested a QP with cheese!!!

5methoxy indeed has an awfull bodyload when it starts working. But the effects of it are so overwhelming that you hardly notice it.

minxx from how you sounded in the chat last night it sounded like you just need to eat a well balanced meal

Wow, I've taken doses up to 24mgs preparing for either an MDMA or a mescaline experience.

Melatonin potentiates the heck out of many phens and does help a bit with tryptamines.

Makes MDMA hangover last shorter and with less symptoms, mescaline it add more euphoria, 2C's just makes them much more visual.

Just to clear things up I said many phens have reverse tolerance, both natural and synthetic, not all, but the 2C-x series, 2c-t-series, and mescaline do....at least for me they do. I'm not 100% sure about melatonin.