So it's understood through my research that MDA is more neurotoxic than MDMA.
With that said, there seems to be zero studies talking about the same damage that MDMA produces occurring with MDA.
MDMA (at excessive and continuous doses) seems to be causing actual damage to nerves in the brain.
Does MDA cause this same nerve damage with the serotonin sights??
I've never heard anything anywhere claiming the same damage is done with MDA.
MDMA's action is entirely based on interaction with serotonin, which is why the damage is being done, i understand.
MDA's action, however, is spread out between serotonin, dopamine, and LSD-friendly receptors. this is what causes a deeper response from MDA, you're kinda blissed out, kinda stimulated, and kinda tripped out. whereas MDMA seems to just be blissed-out.
has anyone shown anywhere that actual receptor damage is being done with MDA as with MDMA?
From my own experience i will say that MDA definitely gives a greater headache the next day but NONE of the emotional instability that MDMA can bring.
so to me, MDA feels more toxic (in the sense that alcohol is toxic) than MDMA but less taxing (in the sense that MDMA can be draining and perhaps damaging) than MDMA.
for the record, the hangover from six beers for me is LIGHT YEARS more intense than with MDA. a much greater headache is experienced from alcohol. i wouldn't say alcohol is killing you if you moderate it, i also wouldn't say MDA is doing much in moderation. i'm more cautious about MDMA (for the uncertainties about previously mentioned studies) but it is clear from certain studies that if you keep your dose down (no boosting or double-dosing!!!!!!!) and keep your exposure low (Shulgin has said 3-4 times a year max) you have little to worry about.
besides you can boost with non-toxic Phens and rest easy. i will be trying to find a "less toxic MDA" session soon by cutting the MDA dose in half and simultaneously dosing with just enough 2C-B to boost the MDA rather than add a trippier dimension to the experience. if that doesn't work, surely 3/4 MDA plus 1/4 2C-B would surely do the empathogenic trick, so to speak. even 3/4 a dose of the MD's are significantly less toxic than 1 full dose.
does anyone have any thoughts on this?
i should note that i'm positive i have very pure MDMA and MDA correctly labeled.
people's opinions about pills doesn't help me much as we'll never really know what's in it.

Look into MDAI. As far as I know it has no nuerotoxicity. and isn't an amphetamine. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I've used it before and the tactile enhancement/ empatheogen qualities are as good as MDMA/MDA IMO but less speedy and more calm.

for the record, my take is:
MDMA = 98% heart space, 2% head space
MDA= 75% heart space, 25% head space
Medium dose Mescaline mirrors MDA= 25% heart space, 75% head space
Large dose mescaline mirrors MDMA= 2% heart space, 98% head space
yes, i think of this in my spare time....

thanks psilochild! i have recently heard about that substance too.
so you think it compares in the empathogenic qualities, huh? that's amazing!
how was the hangover? that is usually a good indicator. not much is known about it which makes me a little weary.
but the way that peoples' bodies and minds react is usually a good indicator of how benign a substance is.
i could have sworn DMT was murdering me before though, so i guess not!!!!

There was no hangover that I recall. I remember combining it with 5-meo-dalt in low doses. and sex was OH MY GOD. Touch alone was better than any orgasm I've ever had.

You all have some exotic connections...MDAI, 5-meo-DALT, wtf?

~100 mg of shiny pointy MDA crystals was as you described, mostly heart space with some head space, but with a nasty hangover. Not as painful in the head as a 6-beer hangover, but very achy in the body. I'll be willing to give a similar dose of pure MDMA a try (no pills) especially given what you say about opening the heart space, but this family doesn't seem so human-friendly in my understanding. Except for brief therapeutic sessions, of course.

Have you tried using mescaline in combination with any of the MDxx's? I personally get no hangover from mescaline (even 2c-b gives me a bit of an amphetamine feeling from the inside); in fact I feel cleaned out on a cellular level for a few days afterward.

This you should be extremely careful with. Cacti contains compounds that acts as MAOIs, and mixing MD* with MAOIs can be extremely dangerous. It increases the neurotoxicity of MD* to a great extent, at the same time as it potentiates it. Be very, very careful.

Nevertheless, absolutely pure mescaline does not have this problem. I guess that combination may prove very interesting!

"You all have some exotic connections...MDAI, 5-meo-DALT, wtf?"

HA! i know, i've thought that before about y'all. but i see now that a little bit of looking and you can find pretty much any of the more "obscure guys".
I was reading a little more about the MDA toxicity thing and i came up with a few more points.
right now there are only "theories". so nothing has actually been shown.
but one of the theories is that dopamine goes into the freed up serotonin receptors and pretty much wrecks shop, causing nerve damage.
i guess dopamine is not normally supposed to go in there, but MDA/MDMA free those receptors up a little "too well".
theoretically, MDA releases much more dopamine so has greater potential for damage.
so i guess all the stuff they say about MDMA applies to MDA also.
keep in mind though that mostly all the animal studies were conducted with MASSIVELY HIGH DOSE injections multiple times in a short amount of time.
MDA was legal in the 60's and 70's and widely used. very widely. albeit, taken orally and at reasonable doses. what disaster has come of this?? well, not much, i would say.
they did do a study where they gave monkeys a "normal" dose of MDMA (equivilant to 125 mgs. for a human) once a week for a couple months, effectively mirroring a more responsible use pattern. (though a few times a year would be most responsible.)
NO DAMAGE WAS NOTED! what we need are human studies not animal studies, but still.....
again no double dosing! no multi-dosing! that seems a good start. be safe friends....
p.s. i like to keep mescaline by itself, it is far too fulfilling for me to add anything to it.

It is my understanding that an average dose of ecstacy used recreationaly is not toxic at all. And I dont think any studies show that it is

Id love to be proved wrong.... But from what Ive read its mostly super huge doses given constantly to lab rats (often injected directly into the brain) that have shown toxicity, as would many many things.

And also for the number of studies done showing negative effects on cognitive behavior in humans due to regular ecstacy use, there is an equal number showing no negative effects at all.

I would consider mdma to be a reliably safe compound to explore, especially given the number of people that have used it regularly around the globe, and the complete lack of negative effects accurately documented

Any chance of any of you that refer to studies (e.g. toxicity tests) to actually cite them so other can judge by themselves??

Second and third and maybe fourth hand digested results may be OK sometimes but the extreme unreliability factor they entail is not.

"Any chance of any of you that refer to studies (e.g. toxicity tests) to actually cite them so other can judge by themselves??

Second and third and maybe fourth hand digested results may be OK sometimes but the extreme unreliability factor they entail is not. "


Good point infundibulum. I have distilled my info from reading various studies printed in the Erowid vaults. Also the book "Ecstasy: a comprehensive guide." By Julie Holland is a nice, well-rounded approach to the distilling the many, many studies done. a lot of "experts" in the psychedelic field pitched in on that book to give a voice about the various aspects of MDMA's effects. any unbaised appraisal of the info would lead to the same conclusion: we just don't have enough proof that it's as bad as the "government funded" scientists are trying to make us believe.
also interesting is the MAPS website which states most confidently that studies have been done showing the safety of a handful of correctly done MDMA sessions in therapy, provided there is no abuse. i would look more into that to see why they are saying this with such scientific conviction.
in the end, 10's of thousands of people take MDMA every weekend. the media keeps pointing to like 1 or two deaths five years ago that wasn't even from MDMA...ecstacy pills contain god-knows-what most of the time!!! i'm being sarcastic, of course, i don't mean that literally NOTHING bad has come from MDMA. i wouldn't go as far as antichode and say "not toxic" but i also wouldn't go the other way and say, DEATH TO ALL like the media does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDAI

I forgot where I originally read it. But rest assured, it's not third, or fourth hand info.