CRAZY

Speechless... Its a sad sad day...


Much Peace and Compassion

Sad day? Why?

These things are tools and they can be used for good or bad. Think about other inventions like knives. It is people who use things in a good or bad way.

By your statement I predict that this your saddest days must have been when:

1. We utilised fire
2. We created the wheel.
3. We made tools out of copper
4. We made tools out of iron.

All the above events have contributed to innumerable grief throughout human history.

5. We became gods!

Worship us, lowly synthetic bacteria, or we shall confine ye to hell! (=waste incinerator)

(Ohayoco makes resolution to buy ant farm, put souvenir Aztec temple in it, then torment them until they start sacrificing each other in My honour)

Gods, nah, not really. The invention or creation is already over-hyped. Scientists did not exactly create life out of nothing, he basically replaced the genome of a bacterium with a man-made genome. This is analogous to transplanting brain between humans. It is a nice proof-of-principle demonstration though and it does have a lot of potential.

Bummer. Back to the meditation and entheogens then.

From the article:
"...This is literally a turning point in the relationship between man and nature," said molecular biologist Richard Ebright at Rutgers University..."

WTF?
Am i not nature?

I feel discriminated.

Disconnection from nature and disrupting the natural harmony of life can never be a positive thing... There are countless examples that what we think of as advancement and so called progress clearly is not, we sadly as a species are devolving.

Much Peace and Awareness

Aegle, i VERY MUCH appreciate what motivates you, don't let there be any misunderstanding about that.
But i regret (because i think) you feel dissociated from nature.

In my opinion the supposed 'split' between man and nature, is the problem. The word schizophrenic comes to mind.

I take it that your best dream in life is to become an ape or some other animal? That you lick yourself clean instead of using soap, because soap, what many think as a potential advancement has contributed to sanitisation methods which means more people alive to pollute, make war, and cause grief?

Also, funny how you are against disconnecting from nature and disrupting harmony of life. I presume you're an expert on what makes the life harmonious? Or you think you know Nature better than other people? Also, funny how you keep on using internet. Internet does not grow on trees last time I checked and its use also takes its toll on Nature's reserves. I suggest you stop what you do altogether and go live deep in the jungle up a tree and do not use any form of technology in fear you may get devolved, right?

You sound like a very self righteous person.

Come on now you two, let's not have ANOTHER argument on here. You both have very good points, try to see the truth in each other's words. Nature is cruel and destructive, as well as kind and nurturing. People can be cruel and destructive, as well as kind and nurturing. Same for animals. Same for technology. People are part of nature, and they reflect both the 'good' and the 'bad' within it.

I am glad I live in the modern world, personally, despite its many faults. If I had to gamble and make a choice of which to be teleported into, I'd choose our future over our past... the choice of an optimist

Well, that's exactly my point!

But I thought nature was all peace and love and butterflies and fluffiness, all that violence and destruction and cruelty is just a side-product of nasty humans and their technology

Or to take it from another angle (paraphrasing Dan Dennett's bemused comments on the subject): People have a hard time looking at human creations in an evolutionary context. Ask them if the spiderweb is a product of evolution? Of course. How about the world wide web? That one they don't like so much. Beaver dam? Yes. Hoover Dam? No.

There is nothing wrong with technology, I think its incredible the amount of knowledge and positivity which is created through advances of technology. But when people utilise technology which interferes and disrupts the natural flow of life, nothing positive or constructive can come from technology harnessed in this manner. Humans should focus advances in technology towards making sure no child has to starve and go hungry rather than being focused on control and material gain. (Sadly this lack of insight is due to ignorance) This is why I feel humans are devolving, we as a society have very little if any sense of community or compassion left...


Much Peace and Sunshine

I still need to ask whether you use soap and what you believe of it as a technological advancement. According to your assertion soap is very very bad; it interferes with the natural flow of life by giving a hygienic advantage to those who use it, thus reducing the naturally expected mortality rates. This is a clear intervention with natural flow and also causes devolution since it does not allow the advancement of human immune system and antimicrobial protection.


The vast majority of technological advancements aim to help humanity. Yes, this includes trying to help starving children. How do you know that this "synthetic life" that you already condemned (remember, it was a sad day for you) will not be used to this end? you know that it has the potential, don't you? Again, my point is on how one uses technology. All technologies can be used in a good or bad way. Even feeding starving children can be bad if one plans to make an army of them when they grow older and spread warfare!


Anyway Aegle, up to now you have made statements that have been criticised and thus far you have not addressed any one of the criticisms directly. I really do not know what kind of arguing you use here but to me it appears that you chant a meaningless mantra just as many leftist or rightist fanatics often do, covering their inability to perform a rational discourse. Judging by your robotic answers one could even go as far as calling you a robo-hippie!

Addressing rationally my statements and criticisms would be a nice thing.

[quote=Entropymancer]Or to take it from another angle (paraphrasing Dan Dennett's bemused comments on the subject): People have a hard time looking at human creations in an evolutionary context. Ask them if the spiderweb is a product of evolution? Of course. How about the world wide web? That one they don't like so much. Beaver dam? Yes. Hoover Dam? No. lll

love it! I will be quoting that "dam" reference all the time! (puns always intended all ways)

people tend to forget that there is no set of nature that does not include humanity. We are as much a part of the equation as a beaver, the tree he fells, the hut he builds and the river he dams.

In fact ill go one step further: there is no equation WITHOUT us. And that includes our technology which, as entropymaster deftly points out, is a function of evolution and an integral part of an adaptive strategy. And it can be used for ill, or by will for good - and both are utterly and indivisibly "natural" whether or not we care to admit it.

And, ironically, i would venture that it is most often used for ill BECAUSE we have created this dichotomy! So get off the luddite high horse, accept that there is no us & them, no nature without humanity, and let's all consciously become part of the solution by doing so!

JBArk

This new technology of being able to re-program a cell can go to the extreme in either direction.

It could be programed to eat cancer cells then die...
It could be programed to eat oil spilling into the gulf of Mexico...
It could be programed to.... get you high .....
It could be programed to eat the flesh off your bones and procreate....
What was that movie where these alien bugs ate metal and ruined the world? Yeah it could do that.

My point, hopefully the technology doesn't get into the wrong hands. You think the atom bomb is bad? Imagine a small canister of programed flesh eating bacteria that flies and procreates......

The more I think about it this is very much like playing God. Aegle, I think I'm in your camp here.

what about planting seeds, making fire, baking bread, creating language, organizing into agrarian societies, building shelter, sculpting marble, writing books, philosophizing, curing, eradicating or treating diseases or illnesses like polio, tuberculosis, rickets, influenza, painting on canvas, assembling the microchip you used to communicate with us, or firing neurotransmitter analogues into your cerebral cortex to artificially alter your consciousness - are any of these "playing god"?

They are all technologies that i am sure in their times caused a lot of people to question whether we were entitled and whether or not we were arrogantly parading as god(s).

Again, i reiterate, the only reason to think this is if you have taken us (humanity) out of the equation (nature). I will end here or my beliefs will spark a debate about free will and determinism, already the subject of another fascinating thread.

JBArk the natural human