Hi all,

Am reaching out to the community as this has happened quite often with me now. If I take a break (more than a month) from the weed and then do a dose of .30grams of pure decarbed bud with peanut butter chased with a cup of tea or hot milk, then I have the most amazing time, good energy and can even study. I never smoke these days so this is all ingested cannabis. However cannabis being cannabis, the urge to redose is strong. On Sunday I had .44 then .35 and then .55grams throughout the day. I fell asleep quite fast after the last dose and then woke up extremely tired unable to do anything on Monday. In fact on Monday I slept the whole day through. Finally getting some energy back today. I was high but a very lethargic high on Sunday. Any thoughts on if this is normal or is a side effect of cannabis or just me.

Yes, that can happen. Especially when you take it for a few days. I personally think it's the result of a temporary depletion of dopamine.

This is quite common also for me. When I fall asleep during first hours after I ate cannabis edibles, I wake up with strange, unpleasant and long lasting tiredness.

I feel like this can be a result of the long break in conjunction with heavy dosing. I wonder if this would occur if you had a more regular tolerance.

One love

What do you mean with "cannabis egregore", can you give an example?

Thank you dragonrider, doubledog and Voidmatrix. Interesting notes, I definitely do feel the drop in dopamime dragonrider, good point. Voidmatrix interesting viewpoint, I have built alot of tolerance to cannabis when younger, but perhaps that is something to consider, although the time when I can regularly dose cannabis has passed.

DMTLexus, heavy points there my friend. I am quite an ally of cannabis, it was the plant that gave me my first introduction into the entheogenic space, and it truly helped me get deeper in touch with nature and I had quite a few psychedelic experiences with cannabis too which has largely stopped now. Since I took it as a teenager I do notice some of the long term effects on my general lack of concern for deadlines and motivation at times. Thank you for the disclaimer, these are my viewpoints too. I know it is different for different people however I do draw the line of calling cannabis a parasite plant and feel that she can be a great friend and teacher once you establish a good relationship with her and use her with respect and at the correct dosages. Although I am also intrigued by your viewpoints and like murklan would also like to know what you mean by "cannabis egregore"

Also I could not find much evidence of the Shulgins disliking cannabis that much. Source please?? I have read Ann saying that cannabis is not for her, but she also said the same of Ayahuascha, so that's also interesting. Shulgin himself said of cannabis:

"There is obviously much pharmacological potential in Cannabis sutiva. It is axiomatic that when this is revealed and appreciated, there will be valid contributions to the science of medicine." Shulgin, A.T, p. 415, Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, vol. II, no. 1, 197 1.

I am thinking you may need less to get the effects you want. My line of thinking was similar to when one takes a tolerance break and comes back to have "normal" dosages have more than "normal" effects, ie the same amount gets one higher than before the tolerance break. I could feasibly see this impacting things such as ingested hangover such as you've describes. You ate a lot of cannabis

One love

Hahaha that is a lot

I had around 40mg of decarbed weed earlier in the day combined with around 150mg of mushrooms (Cuban strain). Since I have a low tolerance for both mushrooms and cannabis, this was a perfect dose. Feels really nice

DMT Lexus, I find what you wrote to be a rather extreme, one side perspective of cannabis. I don't believe it is the whole truth of cannabis, but a personal take on the truth of its shadow side, which manifests most strongly, in my experience, with overuse. Also, the view of the cannabis spirit as being some kind of parasite doesn't resonate for me. Humans have had a symbiotic relationship with cannabis for thousands of years.

Having said that, abusing cannabis in my adolescence pretty much wrecked that time of my life for me, which makes me sad, yet helps with empathy for those caught in destructive habits of substance use. Overusing cannabis in my early twenties was also damaging, but less so. Getting back into weed in my early thirties as it became legal in my area was initially pretty great, as in my early twenties, but eventually led to disordered and harmful use, especially with hash oil.

In my view, it wasn't the fault of the lovely cannabis plant that I experienced all those issues, but was rather the fault of the dysfunctional relationship that I had with it.

It wasn't until late 2019 when I switched from smoking weed to vaporizing it that my relationship with cannabis took a significant turn for the better. Around the same time, in early 2020, I discovered that you can buy hemp online, and started combining weed with hemp in a vaporizer. Until then I would combine high CBD cannabis with regular weed in a bong, which had much stronger and heavier effects.

At this point, I like to make a mix of mostly CBD and CBG hemp strains with just a tiny bit of indica and/or sativa and vaporize that mix at around 400 F, which (obviously) has way lighter effects compared to smoking regular weed. In terms of oral cannabis, 40-50mg of decarbed weed seems to be the sweet spot for me where I can clearly feel it without getting too stoned

Pot is a drug. All drugs have some bad effects... and some good ones. There is a cost/benefit ratio.

Even psychedelics do have bad effects, they are just outweighed by the possible beneficial effects.

I get all the bad effects that dmt-lexus cited in his post. (a bit exaggerated) I happen to get many more, even more horrible, effects from any other drug. That includes some drugs which doctors have prescribed. Nothing gives the level of pain relief, sleep, and recreation that pot does with a side effect level as low.

But, yeah, it would be better if I didn't smoke at all.


Oh, and yeah, if I've smoked for a couple days or more I do get lethargy and tireness as an aftereffect a day or so into stopping. Never could figure that one out. I don't get it at first.

I smoked non stop all day everyday from 18-25, although I still smoked a lot from 14-18. I would slowly come to realize that pot made it impossible for me to complete every day tasks. I'm 35 now. To each their own, but for the last decade I really only toke it up occasionally. I'm lucky if I put pants on when I get stoned, and the whole day gets cancelled.

It's now a great reward for once all of the tasks of the day are complete. Even so, I get bad weed hangovers and feel lethargic for days. It's just not really my cup of tea anymore as it also gives me intense anxiety and paranoia. Bleh, at least I'm saving money.

If I'm drunk I love to smoke pot though, and if I'm sober and smoke pot, I then do not feel like drinking at all, so it's been great for that.

It could be that you're getting to that age. We all like to think we'll be big stoners well into our 80th birthday, but the reality is that you brain changes as you get older, and many things (not just pot) ebb and flow in moderation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore

Good choice of term by DMT Lexus there. Actually described in the post here:

I rather concur with the following from my own experience too:
Or perhaps it brought out these things that were already in us...

I've had a lot of fun and some amazing times with the herb but chasing these desirable experiences was where it predictably went wrong. If I had paid more heed to the above observations and actually attempted to do a little more work on those traits, well, it is how it is and I am where I am now. It can be something of an equilibrium between avoiding being a jerk and staying true to oneself, but here's not the place to diverge into a ramble about personal growth, perhaps.

Regarding Shulgin, Sasha stated in PIHKaL that he didn't like cannabis because he felt he "was wasting his time". If I'd achieved fruition of but a small fraction of the countless 'fantastic' ideas that have passed through my mind under the influence of cannabis - well, I would have been pretty busy.

Credit where it's due, though. Oftentimes cannabis would induce me to do what I really needed to do in terms of stretching, dancing, playing music, drinking water, appreciating nature and natural beauty. It's not all demons. It definitely has its ebb and flow, just as Widderic says.

One more thing is that even with a tea made from low-THC hemp flowers, and only a quarter of a teaspoon of them at that, the following morning it is significantly more difficult for me to open my eyes and get up. Each and every time.

I've taken in cannabis in one form or another pretty much daily since I was about 18 (currently 34). Even as a kid I had mood issues and cannabis helps me manage them. For me, it's all about how I use it. While sometimes I want to enjoy the space of the high, more often now, it helps me to regulate myself. Probably why I am also so in love with CBD strains. However, while I use cannabis daily, said daily use is not the same all the time. Some days it's a few intakes, other days it may only be one. Sometimes I'm super high all day (very rare now though). I tried to keep it to a minimum for a while by only smoking at the end of the day. I've since learned, that for me, small amounts during the day can help me stay more clear headed, mitigating the fast-paced nature of my mind, and helping me to get more done overall. I do however have to be cognizant and mindful of where the therapeutic threshold is because, unlike in my early 20s, if I get too high, regardless of cultivar characteristics, I'll end up experiencing more fatigue than I usually do.

I am also cultivar specific about what is smoked and when. Sativa dominant during the day, indica dominant at night. Eating it in the evening helps me sleep, which was also a problem before ever smoking cannabis.

I've definitely had to pay attention to how I use this substance, as has been already shared, it can bring about a plethora of negative side-effects.

One love

I really like this, and I also didn't know this. I really need to read PIHKaL again.

I ultimately felt that way about cannabis too. I felt like I was wasting way too much time.

I concur, that it's great for a picnic, or a stroll through a national park, or as a laugh booster for a comedy show. In the end, I've never cared to use it in terms of productivity like house cleaning, writing papers, extraction, etc. I enjoy "messing around" on the guitar or synthesizers while stoned, but only for the idea and experimentation phase. When it comes to actually laying out the structure and writing a song, the cannabis has to stay in it's jar.

Cannabis is both a genuine psychedelic as well as a drug that can make you high, like cocaine or opiates. For me personally it seems to be exactly at that 50/50 point.

I found that if i use it only as a psychedelic, the high just is a very welcome little present on top of a psychedelic experience. If i start chasing the high, it becomes a drug of habit and all the benefits are quickly lost.

Life can easily become like a tunnel, when you're just chasing the high.

But as a psychedelic, i find cannabis can be incredibly beneficial. Especially when eaten.

What are your opinions on brain chemistry changing as you age in regards to pot use? It's something that I'm genuinely interested in because I'm living it, and I never really seem to get a confident answer from my friends when I talk about it. For me, it feels like it's went from making me feel that standard high... to now... where I feel like it's a potent psychedelic and I need to plan my day around it. I get wild visuals sometimes before bed, but in the wrong settings I get paranoia and anxiety (psychedelic) where it's very uncomfortable.

For instance, in my earlier career of being a pot head I was high 24/7 and seemed to be able to function day to day with work, life, relationships etc... but now I take one very tiny puff and it feels like a gigantic bong hit I took in 2003.

I'm sure there are many other variables like past drug use, diet, genetics etc. But you get what I'm saying. I guess my question is... do other people feel that way?

It's a very common occurrence for people who've used cannabis long term to need a break to reset, especially with the daily smoking of it. Lethargy and amotivational syndrome exacerbated by heavy cannabis use is a real thing for some people. Sometimes we have to ask ourselves if we're really doing things the most beneficial way.

I'm on my 10th month smoke-free. I stopped toking cannabis at the same time as I quit smoking cigarettes. I now feel no urge to use it daily and when I do use it in the form of decarbed flowers and hash, tinctures, and gummies I get great mileage off my doses and a lot of benefit. My toking was linked to my smoking. It was a major fixation for me and it didn't help that in recent years I was smoking my cannabis via blunts even while smoking a lot of cigarettes.

I feel like I fixed my issue by abstaining then reintroducing cannabis with a better route of administration.

I know of being framed between compulsion and the less-is-more wisdom

Hmm, well i know cannabis is indeed bad for short-term memory, but what are it's effects on short-term memory?

Thank you for the explanation, but it's still a bit unclear for me. Do you mean that the effects (mental and/or physical.. if it possible to separate) continue for up to a year after use? Or that the experience of a changed mental state is alive in you for a long time?

The last is much more apparent regarding DMT then cannabis for me. The former I've heard people say that they experience a new clearness in their minds after around a week after stopping using cannabis regularly. I don't really know... I feel somewhat more present already after 2-3 days. But I've usually only vaped in the night time, but every night.