Answer seems to either poison, kill and disable and best to prevent reproduction of the acacias predators.

Seems to clearly have adverse effects on both sexes of ruminants and thier ability to reproduce. Maybe not specificly DMT but related compounds the plant may not be seeking a dirct effect but that of loading the animals system with the metabolites of DMT.

Fortunately at least some acacia species don't seem harmful in moderation eating a stomach full daily another thing though, even Mimosa Hostilis is clearly Teratogenic causing multiheaded cattle.

Well heck your offspring might be able to smoke 2 pipes.

Seems that DMT is produced primarilly underground in the protective bark of the roots.

It would seem it would seem to have antifungal, antibacterial, and insect worm nematode related protections maybe its being produced wholesale underground and is displaced into the upper bark and stems as a defence mechanism.


Negative impact on testosterone:



Exerpts from:
Effect of dietary phenolic amines on testicular function and luteinizing hormone secretion in male angora goats

Many agriculturally important shrubs of the genus Acacia can contain high concentrations of sympathomimetic phenolic amines. These compounds, which are thought to represent plant chemical defenses against herbivory, can affect different physiological processes of higher animals if they enter into the systemic circulation (Smith, 1977; Evans et al., 1979; Forbes et al., 1995). The sympathomimetic phenolic amines present in A. berlandieri have been implicated in the development of a toxic condition in sheep and goats when this shrub is consumed for extended periods (Camp et al., 1964). Parenteral administration of phenolic amines present in A. berlandieri and A. rigidula impairs reproductive function of female goats (Forbes et al., 1993) and heifers (Carpenter et al., 1994) and suppresses LH release after GnRH administration in wethers (Forbes et al., 1994). Further research is required to determine the occurrence of subtoxic effects in domestic ruminants that regularly consume vegetation with high concentrations of phenolic amines. In the present study, male Angora goats were allowed to graze on a range site dominated by A. berlandieri and A. rigidula to test the hypothesis that consumption of these plants does not affect testicular characteristics or function or systemic LH concentrations.

The results of this study indicate that consumption of phenolic amine-containing vegetation may affect the function of the pituitary-gonadal axis in domestic
goats, as has been suggested in recent studies involving parenteral administration of some of the phenolic amines present in A. berlandieri and A. rigidula (Forbes et al., 1993, 1994; Carpenter et al.,1994).

In terms of testicular characteristics and function, the increase in testosterone secretion by the testes, which normally occurs in male goats as the breeding
season advances (Muduuli et al., 1979; Ritar, 1991; Pe?rez and Mateos, 1995), was clearly suppressed in the PA bucks.

Acute parenteral administration of some of the phenolic amines present in A. berlandieri and A. rigidula inhibited GnRH-stimulated LH secretion in wethers (Forbes et al., 1994).

Increased LH concentrations and augmented LH response to GnRH observed on d 75 in the PA bucks was probably a consequence of reduced negative feedback of testosterone because testosterone was lower in the animals consuming A. berlandieri and A. rigidula. Over the long term, PA males seemed to have a diminished testicular responsiveness to LH. This was reflected during the pre-GnRH period by decreased plasma testosterone despite increased LH and a lack of correlation between plasma concentrations of LH and testosterone. This reduced testicular responsiveness to LH was also evident during the GnRH-stimulated period, as reflected by a decreased testosterone response to GnRH-induced LH release. A possible direct or indirect effect of phenolic amines on testicular function, the latter mediated through their ability to stimulate cortisol secretion (Forbes et al.,1994), may have influenced testicular responsiveness to LH because cortisol has been demonstrated to affect LH-stimulated testicular steroidogenesis (references in Vera-Avila et al., 1996).

Results of the discriminatory analysis indicated that serum testosterone, change in SC, and serum T3 and T4 were the response variables most correlated with treatment when considered independently (independent R2) , and with the exception of T4, when considered in a complete model including all of the other variables (partial R2) . Serum testosterone, serum T3, and change in SC provided most of the discriminatory power (ASCC = .60) that could be achieved by including all variables in the model (ASCC = .64). Thus, according to this analysis, diminished serum testosterone and SC and increased serum T3 concentrations most accurately characterized the differences between PA and CO bucks.

Very relevant information Fractalicious. Thanks for putting them together.

^^^ Ditto

The ant and bug repellent theory doesn't fly with me.

For reasons that, for the Acacias say, most Acacias do just fine without producing DMT (or any alkaloids for that matter)

Producing DMT (or any alkaloid) is metabolically very costly for the plant. And why does DMT % vary so much between different Acacia species? (and indeed specimens)

It is very convenient way to explain the production of this alkaloid, but I haven't seen any evidence for this theory presented, only more conjecture.

..it has been suggested by myself and others in the past that over-grazing of acacias and other plants leads to the production of Phenolic defence compounds..not DMT as defence..
there is evidence that the phenols increase after excess grazing..
the health benefits for humans and animals found in many tryptamine acacias outweighs any such livestock grazing experiments if looking at that genus in particular..e.g. goats rely on some middle eastern acacias, and humans have eaten many species for thousands of years..agri-toxin chem papers are often biased and dubious (in the huge amounts animals are subjected to before 'toxic' symptoms appear)
not enough space here
..i agree with choco..DMT is not a defence..more like the opposite..

Can you elaborate?

I could easily be vulnerable to the HIV virus, but a whole population in eastern Europe is highly resistant. The same principle could be speculated for Acacias. Maybe DMT or its action does not affect the variety of species of insects that "attack" those Acacias that now do not produce DMT; so in turn, they may have found through interaction that DMT production is not effective to protect their system. Who knows.


Having insect infestations is very costly for the plant itself. I don't think that a system would mind creating a metabolically costly "weapon" if it needs an effective protection.


This discussion has nothing to do with "convenience". That would only mean that one of us is rushing to offer "de facto" statements. No one can ever "explain" something through an informal debate; just speculate.

..let us get some science in here please!!
there is evidence of plant defence compounds (too extensive for now,here)
but NOT of DMT as being one of them..

..to clarify that DMT has nothing to do with hurting sheep (unlike some scientists)
fractalicious wrote:

fractalicious..i know you mean well, but i want to scream!

Camp et al 1964 found Phenethylamines (NOT DMT) ..it was Not DMT which given to goats in an extremely unnatural manner (injection) leading to these issues..in fact, dmt is only known in trace amounts in these 2 species..

..again..there is no evidence that DMT in a plant does anything harmful to insects or animals (other than occasionally frighten a human)
..they keep grazing..if they overgraze (hurt plant) Phenols and other defence compounds are produced..

Well come on then Nen! Explain yourself!

You said "quite the opposite". I would love to hear your view on the OP's question!

We don't know really know that DMT is effective protection from predators like insects. Besides, certain species containing decent amounts of DMT have a real problem with galls from wasps or moths.

Some of these trees contain Cyanogenic glycosides AS WELL as DMT. Why produce both?

But I think it is so startling it is that a transmitter related to seratonin is found within Acacias tree, which as their basic doctrine of signature, show us an interconnected nerve network on their phyllode.

And then you give the human these alkaloids and they can have all these wild experiences of meeting gods and goddesses and experiencing a much more expanded reality.

I suppose the alkaloids being present could serve a dual function on Gaia, by protecting the plant from predators and being predated by the insane talking apes for its ability to wake them up to reality beyond their senses and ego.

yeah and the dmt containing acacias always seem to have the most intricate vein structures compared to the other acacias too. they seem to have a "look" about them

..yeah well i wanted to lay some scientific groundwork first to show that the 'plant defence' theories are outdated and probably biased (1950s-60s ideas that all plant halluncinogens must be 'poisons'/deterents)

..well, let's see..any dmt plant that i've grown has been loved by a whole range of insect and mammal 'predators'..more so than non-dmt species..animals Love DMT plants..! (in experience)

now, after this particular mammal (me) first tried dmt from a plant, what happened..?
first, i was further Attracted to it..to graze more....then i started growing it, and studying it, and defending it..
some deterrent!..it felt like 'medicine' not poison..

many more similar mammals were attracted to dmt plants, leading to more of them eventually being grown (only a small percentage seem scared away..evolutionary throwbacks?

and now these plants are more popular and colonising the planet, because of containg dmt..

so, i return to my question in response to the unanswered OP question:
..what good DMT in the human body?

Good points Nen.

On your premise that humans tried it and liked it though, we cannot really establish that it is meant by nature for us to enjoy it. Because if this was the case, first pass metabolism would let this substance exert its effects uninterrupted by MAO activity.

I would be dubious as well on the plant defence hypothesis, but I don't seem to find any evidence to the contrary. The fact that many users experience gods and godesses is subjective to me. The images of "entities" could easily be the result of a cortical process that is affected by DMT, not that DMT itself provides such images.

I guess "what good is DMT to the human body" warrants a different thread.

^i take your points, but i'll bat on a little longer Neural
..the same MAO point can be made for all animals, not just humans..
though acacias at least often contain ß-carbolines, allowing DMT to pass into the system..

i agree 'gods and goddesses' are subjective and not relevant..but, a general feeling of well-being or improved functioning afterwards (i.e. medicine) is very relevant, and would draw many animals back, regardless of 'cortical experiences'..tryptamines affect not just brain receptor sites..

..why not argue that DMT is in humans as a defence against being eaten?
and (i'm talking to hypothetical arguer here) why argue it's in plants for that reason, with no clear evidence, only assumption (i believe based on a bias against hallucinogens as pathogens) ..
is theobromine in chocolate as a 'defence'? or various anti-bacterial compounds (which taste awful but are consumed by animals) in the plant to discourage eating?
the whole 'defence' argument in the case of DMT seems ludicrous the more i ponder it..

perhaps, as Parshvik Chintan mentioned earlier, it's used to 'control' ants/animals..that would make more sense..

there's no clear explanation of what DMT does in either plant or human..neither 'need' it to live..

Your Theobromine/Chocolate-reference made me think about another option.

Appearantly Chocolate is quite toxic to dogs. Perhaps to more canines?
What if a small herbivore, being a prey for canines, ate alot of Cacao leaves &/or seeds?
Would it contain enough of Cacao's alkaloids/actives to essentially make these herbivores toxic to Canines?

Bird eats & spreads Cacao seeds & as a reward becomes Toxic to the predators that often hunt them? Sounds symbiotic.
Could DMT have such an effect too? Giraffes are known to be particulairly fond of Acacia foliage. What predators are
the most common threat to giraffes? Lions? Hyenas? How would these predators respond to orally ingested DMT? I can only
imagine that, eating such amounts of Acacia foliage all day, the Giraffe's flesh must be loaded with DMT and/or metabolites. Some african tribe is known to hunt for giraffe to produce an entheogenic brew from it's liver & bone-marrow. Could the lever & bonemarrow contain DMT or metabolites & could these be toxic to hyenas or Lions? Lions & Hyenas might learn to avoid Giraffes if they consistently get poisoned from eating their flesh.

Just another idea to consider.


More to consider:


Another thing is that many DMT containing plants are Legumes. Which are known to be nitrogen fixing; filtering nitrogen out of the air and putting it into the soil. Does DMT, like all tryptamines, not contain a Nitrogen atom?
Perhaps DMT could be an intermediary in the process of bringing the nitrogen absorbed from the air down to the roots & into the soil? So many things to consider.

You cannot say that with certainty. Here is a study that suggested that DMT production is
necessary at the late developmental stages of the mouse embryo to activate Sigma 1 receptors. It is not impossible that their suggestions could have some merit.

Just been watching a TV programme showing a plant that has vitamin C onboard, making it resistant to salty environments. It thrives along the roads after they have been gritted with salt in the Winter...
(Danish scurvy grass; source: channel 4 'Wildthings'

I'm now wondering what environmental issues may arise around the plants for our molecule to counteract...

Or

Perhaps it helps with the scent?
(we all know what spice smells like eh!)

I have a (maybe?) dumb question - would a bug or ant which supposedly are not conscious ( of their consciousness ) know that he got poisoned?

I can try to elaborate if it doesnt make sense.

Blesses!

Interesting. I found this article to which I have no access unfortunately, but I'll paste the abstract below. It may be very relevant to the thread.

"Brain chemicals are not unique to the brain. This article provides an evolutionary perspective on the function of aromatic neurotransmitters. Serotonin and catecholamines, such as noradrenaline and dopamine, are ancient chemicals known to have existed in unicellular organisms before flourishing in plants. Their function in primitive systems was intimately associated with photon capture and photosynthesis initiation. Many alkaloid drugs, including some of the most powerful hallucinogens known to man are derived from these aromatic chemicals and served as important antioxidants in plants. The loss of the ability in animals to synthesize both indoles and catechols when the plant plastids were lost created a crisis situation for survival. As a result, these two neurotransmitter chemicals participated in global systems in the humans with connections to every cell in the brain and spinal cord. The strategy of having global axonal projections coupled with the evolution of multiple receptors enabled human behavior to express its complex functions while maintaining a stable homeostatic environment over a human lifetime."


E.C. Azmitia, 2012. Brain Chemicals: Global Projections of Ancient Aromatic Neurotransmitters, Encyclopedia of Human Behavior (Second Edition), pages 396–405. http://dx.doi.org/10.101...78-0-12-375000-6.00069-0