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THE JUREMA WAY - join us! Certificate and card now downloadable... Options
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#81 Posted : 2/20/2009 3:44:49 AM
obliguhl wrote:
The problem with this is: It draws unnecessary attention to Jurema. DMT is already illegal, so it should be not Problem to call it "the DMT way" or whatever. Moreover, jurema is not the only source and plays no other particular role in this way of worship.

I understand your concerns. I'm sure the oppressors are already aware of it's importance, all they have to do is read this site or others to find that out. They already know.
They might try to ban jurema to make it too hard for many peeps to extract DMT. If that happened, the faith would be its only defence. The point was to protect jurema by making it central to the faith, because it's the source of the sacrament for most people. Members could use pieces of root bark in their pre-hyperspace ceremonies to strengthen the bond... along with a piece of ayawaska, chacruna, rue and others... SWIM will make himself a shaman hat with each plant incorporated...
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#82 Posted : 2/20/2009 3:48:47 AM
Master of plants wrote:
What´s benefit of joining?

Unity, both to feel part of a movement and for mutual benefit in protecting our spiritual rights against oppression. Unfortunately in this world, arguing that you are in possession of something because it is part of an organised faith holds more water than if you stand alone. I agree it's stupid that the state gives priority to organised faiths over individual ones, but that's the way the world is right now.

Welcome new members! Smile
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
obliguhl
Senior Member
#83 Posted : 2/28/2009 3:12:59 PM
Quote:
The point was to protect jurema by making it central to the faith, because it's the source of the sacrament for most people.


That won't work until you have 1 Million members and a religious practice with a proven history in your culture of a couple decades.

What about rastafarians and their hemp?

It only draws unneccessary attention. "The opressor" includes more than "the nation state" ...read it in the news tomorrow:

"Devilish cult "the jurema way" trys to lure our kids into smoking poisonous chemical!"
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#84 Posted : 3/1/2009 8:10:45 PM
The rastafarian religion DOES help the argument that weed should be legal. As does its historical religious use. Just because it hasn't worked yet, that doesn't mean these things don't help to break down the barriers.
Yes the oppressors are going to put a negative spin on anything that doesn't fit their controlling model of society.
The problem is that the right-wing Christians who made the rules are far more determined than entheogen users, who are generally relaxed and reasonable people. That's why drugs are still illegal. Because no-one's making any serious efforts to change the situation. Check out my anti-prohibition thread... so far, no-one's been able to find an anti-prohibition organisation anywhere near the calibre required to stand a chance. While there are some scientific research organisations, the pressure-group required simply doesn't exist. Academics aren't changing policy- governments commission reports but just ignore the findings that don't suit their aims.
Why are native Americans allowed to use peyote? Because they stood up for themselves and caused a massive fuss and never let up. The fact that it was engrained in their culture through religion strengthened their resolve. They know about fighting for their rights because they have had to fight for them for hundreds of years. Whereas Western drug users don't stand up for themselves, but prefer to continue their practice in secret. They are the most oppressed minority of all. They are politically invisible.
I read that the Jurema Cult was started in Brazil because the people involved needed to get indiginous rights or something but were not recognised by the government. So they established their religion and practices to create a tradition. They then acquired the identity and thus the rights that they wanted.
If entheogen users join together, they would be much stronger. They would then achieve their goals. It is impossible to continue oppressing a people once they cement their resolve to have a voice. Think women's rights, black rights, independence movements such as Gandhi in India, Mandela against apartheid.
These are just the non-violent ones (appropriate to us), but for further examples of the irrepressibility of a people's will, think the Vietnam war- the Americans could never have won, because the Vietnamese would never have given up. Genocide would have been the only way of conquering them. The same goes for Afghanistan etc. No amount of firepower will stop a people who believe in their cause unless you kill them all.
Drugs are still illegal because the people who use them have just enough freedom that they are not pushed into action against their oppressors. They are caught one by one, rather than rounded up together into concentration camps, so they do not feel in immediate danger and take no action. This is the best strategy for oppression. Squeeze people until they are about to burst, but make sure they don't reach bursting point.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#85 Posted : 3/1/2009 9:03:59 PM
The spiritual awakening that SWIM has been given by DMT has opened his eyes to prohibition. Before he was in two minds about it, but he didn't realise the true extent of this evil. He didn't realise it was cultural oppression, not a misguided medical decision.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#86 Posted : 3/4/2009 12:53:05 AM
A bit late and certainly irrelevant by now,
Quote:
Possible suitable names for 'DMT':
Spice, the light... er, Business Man's Special?! Not many options here so far.
, but it was also refered to as 'nigerina' ('nigerine' ) when isolated from Jurema by Brazilian chemist O.Goncalves de Lima in 1946.

SWIM would like to join/create a religion that takes any entheogen as its sacrement, as well as DMT/nigerina, albeit more in a sense of gnostic science rather than religion per se. Religion = re+ligare = re-binding - establishment of habitual conformity. So SWIM can't honestly say
Quote:
You got my soul on your list!!!!
Wink But the community must be able to stand up for wise entheogen use so hats off to you.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
soulfood
Senior Member | Skills: DMT, Harmaloids, Bufotenine, Mescaline, Trip advice
#87 Posted : 3/4/2009 6:07:45 PM
Ok I kind of see where this is going. But isn't it a little strange to have a group which has a designated sacrement but with no other system of beliefs and values.

Imagine crack-heads with crack cards. I don't think the law would see this as any different as they are both highly scheduled substances.
 
antrocles
Senior Member
#88 Posted : 3/5/2009 7:33:01 PM
well Jorkest.....we spoke of this a while back now didn't we? Hyperspace membership cards.....SWIM now his "Jurema Way" card lamenated and stuffed in his wallet. he carries it with pride Very happy

soulfood....are you seriously trying to compare spice with crack? LOL! i don't think it would take too much effort to draft up some fundamentals that encompass the Way of Jurema.....something along the lines of:

1. you path is your own and St. Jurema is but a light to help you make your way.

2. respect all life and, with the help of St. Jurema, recognize the oneness that connects us all.

3. there is no set "schedule" for one to commune with the devine. one should ONLY ever travel into "the light" when one feels St. Jurema call to him/her.

4. the Sacrament is just that. it is not for abuse or recreation but for deep self-exploration and spiritual growth....

etc.. etc...

these are tenets SWIM pretty much lives by anyway so it's all good to him. Ohayoco, many thanks for starting this thread....may something truly righteous and transformative come of it!

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!


"Rise above the illusion of time and you will have tomorrow's
wisdom today."
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#89 Posted : 3/8/2009 10:30:21 PM
Welcome all to the tread! And thanks for the kind words Antrocles Smile
Thanks Soulfood, I see your point... however, if you think about what "Do as you will when it harms no other" means you will end up with a very comprehensive ethical system that surpasses the ones that our governments currently go by. They still have the Bible as an invisible foundation in the West, ignoring the bits that don't suit them such as turning the other cheek or stoning adulterers... mixed in with the 'common law' of the preceding pagan cultures, as well as newer but sometimes still-flawed philosophies like humanism, utilitarianism and that dreadful neo-conservatism (shudders).
I don't see a need to tell members what to believe about hyperspace... they can see that for themselves. That's the beauty of DMT- one can actually experience the divine, rather than have priests and rulers as go-betweens.
Downwardsfromzero- I know, we went with "jurema" because there isn't a subtle term for DMT at present that fitted the bill. 'Nigerine' has associations for me with a certain racist expletive so it seems tainted unfortunately. I don't suppose you know the words for 'light' and other terms for DMT in the languages of the cultures who originally discovered it? (Not the Spanish because I read that's seen as insensitive by some natives, and I think that sentiment's fair enough considering, which is why I call it ayawaska instead of ayahuasca)
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#90 Posted : 3/9/2009 3:04:50 AM
ohayoco wrote:
[snip]
Downwardsfromzero- I know, we went with "jurema" because there isn't a subtle term for DMT at present that fitted the bill. 'Nigerine' has associations for me with a certain racist expletive so it seems tainted unfortunately.


That's a shame. I wonder what the people of Niger and Nigeria think.Confused And why did Goncalves de Lima choose the name 'Nigerina'?
Quote:
I don't suppose you know the words for 'light' and other terms for DMT in the languages of the cultures who originally discovered it? (Not the Spanish because I read that's seen as insensitive by some natives,

Not at present. Give me a month or two and I might find out.
Quote:
and I think that sentiment's fair enough considering, which is why I call it ayawaska instead of ayahuasca)
Please elaborate... that seems just to be a matter of spellingConfused




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#91 Posted : 3/9/2009 3:31:31 AM
When choosing a name one must consider semiotics. The brain associates one word for another, so care is needed not to have a name that has no subconscious negative associations. This is one of the reasons that companies pay millions to branding consultancies. Outside of Africa, people's brains are not going to associate 'nigerine' with those two countries, but with a 'hate-word', so it's best just to choose a different name to be on the safe side. And those two countries are called as such for historical reasons. If a new nation were born, I doubt they'd call it anything with such associations. I don't think a reasonable person from Niger or Nigeria who has studied semiotics would have any problem with that reasoning. I'm not really comfortable talking about this because I don't want to offend anyone and this is volatile subject matter that will only create disharmony.

As for your question on aya, yes it's just a matter of spelling to some people, like you. To others (and I'm not saying all natives, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that some of them object), they were invaded, genocidally massacred and oppressed for 400 years by conquisadors, so some of them would apparently rather that their sacred medicine were spelt phonetically rather than in Spanish. I don't see a problem with that, and I have a deep respect for their culture, so I'll appease them by spelling it how they apparently want me to. If I spell it ayahuasca, some people are offended, but if I spell it ayawaska, no-one is offended, so it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#92 Posted : 3/9/2009 4:06:13 AM
Wow! Is race really such an issue in some places that the original trivial name of a chemical substance (which should be able to claim some kind of priority) can't be used for fear of offending some unspecified persons? I may be being incredibly naive here, but isn't it possible to move on from things like that? And doesn't walking on eggshells around the matter just sustain the hurt?
Quote:
Outside of Africa, people's brains are not going to associate 'nigerine' with those two countries,
you mean in the USA , where you're known for generally being a bit rubbish at world geography? Laughing

Incidentally, I've devised and used my own writing systems at times because of the disenfranchisement and marginalisation I've felt as an unusual member of society. Should I campaign against the term 'weirdo' and avoid using words which even resemble it? I understand this is not the same as having my family murdered and my land stolen, although historically this has happened in my country. It's what the ruling classes do as a matter of course. The same ruling classes that would criminalise us for wishing to alter our reality structures with a centrally active sacrement.

I mean all of this with the greatest respect. I can see the internet as a tool which unfortunately harshens words. 'Nigerina' was brought up as a point of information rather than a serious suggestion for naming a quasi-religious organisation.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#93 Posted : 3/11/2009 5:39:27 PM
downwardsfromzero wrote:
Wow! Is race really such an issue in some places that the original trivial name of a chemical substance (which should be able to claim some kind of priority) can't be used for fear of offending some unspecified persons? I may be being incredibly naive here, but isn't it possible to move on from things like that? And doesn't walking on eggshells around the matter just sustain the hurt?

Here we go. Yes, race is still an issue. I guess you just haven't experienced any racism so you don't see it as such. It's not walking on eggshells, it's semiotics and nothing more. Read a book about it, because a book will explain it far better than I can. You say the name is 'trivial' anyway so why bother using it when there are a million others to choose from.

Quote:
you mean in the USA , where you're known for generally being a bit rubbish at world geography? Laughing

I'm European. So you've only offended me with your confrontational attitude, but you've just slurred every American on here with that petty jibe. My point was nothing to do with ignorance of geography, it's to do with how often the words are used and the 'power' that the words have.

Thank you for the suggestion, let me know if you hear of any native words for the molecule Smile
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
Contact
#94 Posted : 5/8/2009 11:16:31 AM
Count me in Smile i'm joining Smile
There is more than we can see with our eyes open
 
Xstacy
#95 Posted : 5/8/2009 11:47:42 AM
'Coatl wrote:
Quote:
I thought you guys would be going to war.


No, we are not the fools our fathers were.



Best quote - ever.
All illegal narcotics are medicinal. Boredom is a disease worse than cancer. Drugs cure it, with little or no side effects if used as directed - Doug Stanhope.

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
 
'Coatl
#96 Posted : 5/8/2009 3:47:33 PM
Thanks!

Long live the Jurema Way!!!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
jamie
Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growingSenior Member | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growing
#97 Posted : 9/3/2009 5:37:02 AM
I like the idea..Im gunna print up one of those cards as wellVery happy ..long live spice!
Long live the unwoke.
 
ohayoco
Senior Member
#98 Posted : 9/3/2009 10:20:10 AM
Welcome Fractal! I want to start an umbrella one someday too, called The Entheogen Way, or something... I'm still trying to come up with a well-rounded name. Exactly the same ethos but not specific to one entheogen. Then there will be subsets such as this DMT-specific one. This one is the test, to see how much interest there is, so it's nice to see that you've revived the thread Smile Gotta have a mescaline one sometime too for the cactus eaters Pleased
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
jamie
Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growingSenior Member | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growing
#99 Posted : 9/3/2009 4:09:25 PM
yeah, I like that idea of the entheogen way..
Long live the unwoke.
 
antrocles
Senior Member
#100 Posted : 9/3/2009 4:47:49 PM
so funny you guys are talking about this again! i was just looking at my card in my wallet... Pleased i honestly printed one up back when Jorkest made that mock-up. i love it...although i shoulda laminated that sucker....

and as it reads clear as day:

DMT is our sacrament. Hyperspace is our place of worship.

amen.

L&G!!
"Rise above the illusion of time and you will have tomorrow's
wisdom today."
 
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