I'm no expert in pharmaceuticals but, I think there is something really odd about all this, And, I'm wondering what kind of effects these vaccines could have on humans in the long run. I'm starting to hear more and more negative side effects.And sidebar, Im also wondering how these vaccines interact with an MAOI.

I can only provide my personal anecdotal experience, but I have not experienced any issues with my daily harmalas or with changa since receiving the vaccine.

Jagube, I personally did not go into the topic of the origins in the beginning. But I had for example a well educated, well respected friend (professor at a university) who was telling me that the chances for a lab leak are great.

We live in the age of FB and (m)ass media where BS is disseminated with a megaphone very wide by anybody who wants to do it. I find it really unfortunate that the conversation/inquiry got defined by this phenomenon and the focus was on the quality of the characters of certain groups or individuals, and not on the actual inquiry.

I wish we could set aside "conspiracy theorists," "anti vaxxers" etc and just focus on the original issue.

Yes the mass BS is also a real issue, but should not cloud the original issue and as you said, just ignoring shady sources is the way to go, not giving all our energy for fighting it as this ironically leads to the triumph of the BS - clouding the discourse.

It is all political. Sure, there are people who are nuts in this world, I am not denying that. But at the same time, blanket labeling certain positions with a term such as "conspiracy theory" is a political tactic, IMHO .

As for long-term effects of covid vaccine, while I think this is a reasonable question to ask, and something I have pondered myself, it is important to note that we are not comparing it to nothing, we need to compare it with the long term-effects of covid.

Here is a review of "long covid", where you can see a large percentage of people suffer from debilitating symptoms many months after infection. The percentage of people reporting long-term effects from vaccines is null so far, only acute reactions in a very small amount of people as discussed earlier: cases of blood-cloths specially in young woman with AstroZeneca and Janssen vaccines, and a handful of reports of myocarditis in young men/teenagers with Pfizer/Moderna. Note that myocarditis is also a reported symptom of covid infection itself so we should not be comparing risk of vaccines with an inexistent alternative of life that is risk free.

Of course one may still consider the possibility of unnoticed damage happening that will only show long term after covid vaccines, but this argument can also be used for covid infections themselves.


Regarding the potential lab origin of covid, a few points to make:
1- This should definitely also be a rational scientific debate instead of one tainted with an emotional knee-jerk conspiratorial or dismissive tone.
2- Anecdotal report of someone getting sick in Wuhan lab before COVID was announced is not in any way a proof of lab leak hypothesis.
3- This is the only article I've found that seems to rationally discuss the possibility of the human origin for the virus. I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on the merits of the arguments. They do not claim any proof but invite for further discussion on the topic.
4- Often people who talk about lab leak to claim it's a dangerous bioweapon are the same people that say "it's just a flu", which contradicts itself. Also these are often the same people that then say vaccines are experimental gene therapies (factual error). Which brings me to the next point:
5- Whether it was a human-made virus or not is unrelated from whether one should take the vaccine or not, or whether other treatment and containment measures should be used or not. Each part of this discussion merits being looked at separately.
6- Jagube's point is spot on regarding criticism of some of the lab-leak comments.

unfortunately true evidence is difficult to come by. you don't know me, you have no reason to trust me, it's just an unfortunate reality. who cares about the details anyway, just stay safe <3

7-The e-mails from fauci that where made public do not in any way indicate that fauci or people around him where in the know about a man-made virus.
It is clear that fauci merely discussed the hypothesis of this being the case with some of his collegues.
Discussing a hypothesis is what scientists do and also completely normal.
It is part of the search for answers and not evidence of anything.

It saddens my heart to hear things like: "people who don´t present evidences on their claims should be put aside" (or "deplatformed".
Personally, I would love to hear what all the wackos and conspiracy theory guys have to say.

I remember a quote from Terrence McKenna, describing his first DMT trip... he said after 5 seconds... he was no longer a marxist, he was no longer a materialist...

It strikes me how in a forum dedicated to entheogens, sharing experiences on contacting alien, angels, interdimensional entities, plant spirits or elementals, etc. Some people can still dwell on their old paradigms of thinking. Concerned in good manners, requiring other people to present evidence on their claims, threatening with isolating them, like regular people does when you talk to them about phychedelics, they same poison...

There can be very interesting metaphysical implications on the situation we are living right now and therefore interesting conversations to have too, but that opportunity might be lost in a atmosphere of hostility towards people making non fact-checked claims... are you required in this forum to present evidence to talk about machine elves or cosmic jesters?

Personally, I think we are living a kind of mental/spiritual war. And everything that has to do with what we can´t see with your eyes is right on the spot.

Love to everybody

It's not an easy situation for humanity, so the tenseness is understandable; however there is a real risk of turning into a fascist culture.

Discernment is important for sure. But having the space for people to express themselves without fear of being automatically slammed on the head with a hammer is also important. Someone else (especially someone else who has no connection to you whatsoever) can't tell you what you did or did not do or experience. That is plain disrespect; it is unintelligent, and it's just bad in many ways, period.

Truth is not a singular beam coming down from the sky to be slammed down your throat. It is only found in a collective search. Anybody remember the meaning/importance of democracy?

If you really care to alleviate people's suffering from this virus, you have to be open to support from all possible channels. Herbal medicine is not a "threat" to the vaccine.

The vaccine is not the ultimate goal. People's health is the ultimate goal.

Well said the_Architect and dithyramb.

If there is one thing plant medicine has taught me, it's that I know nothing. Truth and reality are relative - they are just temporary stories unfolding in my awareness. Never assume I know more than someone else or that I can marginalize a group of people because my past conditioning does not align with their past conditioning.

Have we not learned that one group forcing their beliefs onto another is unconscious, toxic behavior? Religion, colonialism, imperialism, totalitarianism, et cetera.

Edit: I just realized I need to be careful with this point of view, that I don't unintentionally marginalize people who believe it's okay to marginalize others. Isn't that ironic?

Sending high fives all around guys!

One love

I'm surprised to see this conversation being allowed here on the Nexus.

I'm definitely not going to be taking the vax, I have no trust in any of the organizations involved given their histories, if anyone read into them, I'm surprised anyone would feel comfortable.

We're seeing people being censored left and right across all social media platforms simply for mentioning things like ivermectin or linking VAERS / Yellow Card / EudraVigilance, to me that definitely raises an eyebrow as surely that kind of information is a key part of informed consent? when we go to get vaccinated we're told by the staff that there are no risks involved with taking the jab and yet I've known plenty of people who've been harmed and even killed by them but of course it's just anecdotal and so it gets thrown out as data by those who stand to lose money as a result of that data becoming common knowledge.

If people want the jab then I am 100% pro you doing that to yourself but I don't think it is at all acceptable the degree of censorship we're seeing on the subject today.

Honestly, I'm shocked there isn't more skepticism on this forum when these same authorities ban the medicines we on this forum all know and love and ruin the lives of anyone they catch involved with them.

I respect your decision and opinion.

I am skeptical in general, but in day to day life, despite skepticism decisions of action must be made relative to the current context. In this case, huge swathes of people dying influenced my decision to get vaccinated in the hope it helps remedy the issue.

Careful with overgeneralizations. The powers you've mentioned have done both good and bad. Nothing and no one is perfect. You seem to be focusing more on the bad.

No one "knows." We're all doing the best we can, just like you.

One love

Yeah? You personally know "plenty" of people who have been killed by the COVID vaccine....

To everyone who is upset about being marginalized over wildly unsubstantiated and easily disproven claims, this is a good example of the kind of comment that marks you as such in the eyes of the majority.

Saw this coming a mile away

One love

No censorship here, mind you.

But to expect that one can run around making these kinds of fantastical truth-free claims while contributing to (and publicly promoting) a course of mass action that undermines public health on a global scale without being vilified or otherwise marginalized shows just how out of touch with reality some folk can be.

Again, this isn't censorship. Say whatever you want to say. But don't be surprised when people regard you with contempt for spreading dangerous misinformation. It's like loudly proclaiming the Earth is flat and then getting upset that the rest of the world doesn't view you as a serious person - with the added dimension that your actions in this particular instance are putting others at greater risk.

Let's also recognize that any claims that the vaccines are "safe" are just as wildly unsubstantiated. As previously discussed, vaccine safety studies and approval are normally a 10-15 year process. For anyone trusting the FDA's stance on covid, trust that the FDA knows from decades of experience that vaccines require years of study to ensure safety.

It's probably a safe bet that ALL non-trivial medical interventions have undesirable side effects that make them unsafe for many people. It just takes time and a willingness to be objective to discover and report them.

The most optimistic thing we can say about the vaccines is that we pray they prove safe for most people over time. I have many friends and family members that have taken the vaccine and I hope they stay healthy. Myself, I'm fortunate that I have the financial means and discipline to pay for Ivermectin out of pocket and remember to take my weekly dose. I know that financially and from a habit perspective, that doesn't work for many people. Hence a simple shot works best to build immunity in society. I'm grateful I have a choice in how I protect myself from covid.

Except that this isn't true. You may be fearful of long term effects (and that may or may not be valid), but any claims from anyone that they know plenty of people who have been killed by the vaccine (within, what - three, four months...?) are preposterous and easily debunked.

How did we arrive at this place where we all get to make up our own truth based on what is most and least convenient for us personally? Don't like wearing masks to the grocery store? That's easy; just decide that masks present a dangerous impediment to your breathing and offer nothing to back up your claims. Don't want to get a vaccine? Just decide that vaccines are killing all of your friends, regardless of the fact that it's hogwash.

Not all positions are equally valid. Not all beliefs are accurate or worthy of indulgence. Giving equal time and weight to points of view that run contrary to reality (such as flat Earthing, election rigging, anti-masking, vaccines killing your friends, etc.) only dumbs down our world to the point where there is no such thing as truth. Except that there is, and no amount of "alternative facts" can change that.

I'm sorry but how're you going to disprove my experiences? you're right that it's generally enough to speak as you did to shut me up and discredit me in the eyes of anyone unsure but ultimately my experience is my experience and I know plenty of people who've suffered adverse reactions and some who've died and I know plenty of others in my local community who say the same. I've met many people who regret taking the vaccine because they've not felt OK since and are angry because they only took it because they felt pressured / wanted to go on holiday and that still hasn't ended up being a thing.

I'm not against people taking the vaccine with informed consent but that's definitely not what's happening in this country (UK) and I'd bet it's the same around the world. No one is being told about the lack of long term data, no one is being told about the potential of side effects and no one is being made aware of the numbers of reported deaths / adverse affects from VAERS etc.. (which research shows only reflects 10% of actual stats at best)

What I am against is all the coercion / censorship / outright lying going on around all this and the ignorance of people who're stepping in as pharmaceutical companies PR agents (lucky them they don't even have to pay you!)

There's plenty of data showing now that the jabs do nothing to prevent spread and yet an overwhelming amount of the population is now in favor of treating the vaccinated as 2nd class citizens for literally no reason.. Let's start treating those who smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol or eat unhealthily as 2nd class citizens too then yeah?


I would love to share a bunch of good information on the topic but it'd likely get me banned so I'm going to stop here as I still like certain aspects of this forum and am forever indebted to it for the gift it gave me that was the knowledge of dmt.

I just really recommend anyone who feels the slightest bit of doubt as to what's going on in the world stop listening to all these famously corrupt organizations and start looking elsewhere to get a balanced perspective.

Love to you all but damn is there some disrespect going round here, try and see the other sides' perspective where we're a tiny minority of people in the world who're being completely stamped out of society and being constantly told that our concerns aren't welcome.

Debunk me then if it's so easy

Again, there is none of that going on here. It's all in your imagination. No one has censored you, (including me), no one has coerced you, and no one is lying to you. If you feel disrespected, it's probably because I don't respect you. There's nothing I can do about that, I'm sorry.



And again, this is the kind of comment that makes any other reaction to you impossible. Your comments demonstrate a lack of seriousness. This is why you find yourself marginalized.



Okay. Why don't we start with the names of your friends who have died from being vaccinated, along with any corroboration you've received from medical professionals who concur with your assessment? Then I guess I'll have something to debunk.