No one person can tell another person if they should/shouldn't can/cant take DMT.

We each have the same right to do what we want to. If thats someone who is taking it for better reasons than someone else then so be it. No doubt the experience will reflect that, but thats life.

People make mistakes. They learn. If you have to learn the hard way, then you have to learn the hard way.

I think whats more damaging is scaremongering and elitist views that this is for only certain people. It can put people in an 'excluded' mindset from the off and I dont think thats a healthy way to approach ANYTHING you wish to embrace and get the best out of.

Whoever is looking at this thread is already looking at the nexus, so I would assume they are approaching DMT in the right way. Theres probably hundreds of people who were on the edge of trying it who have been put off by threads like this (me ALMOST), when I think they could have been encouraged.

I haven't had a breakthrough dose yet, which Im sure to some means I dont know what im talking about.

So a total 'noobs' point of view. Respect not fear. Include not exclude.

I hate to burst your bubble here, but there are people that should not take DMT.
Anyone with any hint of mental issues should stay clear.

It's not elitist. It's called experience. Those of us that have been around psycedelics long enough have seen a certain (small percentage) of people freak the fuck out on them.

Many people won't heed safety warnings about set and setting. They should not do these drugs either as they could potentially become a danger to themselves or a public menace to others.

No I'm sorry psychedelics are not for everyone. Anyone turned away by threads like this probably should have turned away.

Rest assured anyone that really wants to see the rabbit hole will go looking for it. But some people (my wife included) find DMT and shrooms to feel largely toxic to her.

Thanks for your reply Joedirt, although I did detect a slight amount of hostility there

I'm not saying anyone and everyone should go out and get loaded on as much DMT as they can take. Far from it.

I totally respect your experience, and with people "freaking out", Its happened to me in fact.

My point, which I feel you may have missed is education in a more positive way. Scare stories and excluding people on whatever criteria is deemed applicable (mental health issues is a whole other subject IMO) in my eyes is wrong. Everyone has the right to this experience and scaring the shit out of people before they've even tried it is the worst possible approach. Its counter productive isn't it, its setting off on the wrong foot. (Its one step from the guy who took LSD thought he was an orange and peeled himself)

Theres obviously a sensible, educated way and a wrong way to start taking any drug. Coming from a positive and peaceful mindset is essential I feel.

I appreciate your reply. I imagine you are way more experienced with DMT than myself. Im just giving my perspective of how things can affect someone before trying DMT for the first time, as this is the 'First steps in hyperspace' forum.

ps I totally appreciate all the information this forum, and others have gave me in preparation.

I have to agree with joe here. A long time I just naively looked at the big picture and thought that it's ok to distribute DMT to everyone, that it's inevitable and it's how the spirit of the jungles flows into the corrupted western society. In a way that's still true, but after my last experience I realized how powerful stuff this is and it has a HUGE potential to f*** you up if the set and setting are even slightly off. I'm talking full blown insanity here, with absolutely no concept of what is real anymore.

"But isn't that a good thing that they wake up and start to question their reality?" .. Not necessarily, there will be a time when people will be ready to wake up, but I don't think it's now. Soon maybe, but not now. Right now a mass distribution of DMT would cause only mass hysteria.

If you're not already looking for the rabbit hole, then you probably shouldn't mess around with DMT. Even if you hear about it on a Joe Rogan Podcast and think it's what the cool kids do these days. I never really understood the saying "You dont find DMT, it finds YOU when you're ready." but now it makes perfect sense to me. If you're gonna be put off by threads like these then you obviously weren't motivated enough to begin with. "Oh wow, these guys sound like a bunch of elitist dicks, I guess I'll just stop looking for the rabbit hole now." .. Yeah I guess you should.

As for the "Only breakthrough people can talk about the breakthrough" -mentality, sure it sounds a bit elitist, but that's how it is. It is exactly like the common example of trying to explain what vision is to a blind person. You can use all kinds of words, but the blind person will have no concept of what the words stand for. Even 2 people with vision will have a hard time talking about it so that it's perfectly defined. I have no idea if other people see the color red in the same way as me, but it's alot easier to talk about it with someone who receives those same(?) vibrations to their eye sockets too.

Well enough rambling, just wanted to point out that it's not as simple as, "Give DMT to everyone" vs. "Don't give DMT to everyone". But in the end things just kind of flow and it all somehow works out. So I don't really know what I'm talking about, which is the whole point.

Your right, we as human beings have the choice to go down a path such as this if we choose.

But with dmt, especially the "higher" dosages in the realm of 35+....especially taken in a breath or two, is something so far beyond pretty fairies and rainbow people...that you end up really stopping in your tracks and wondering what it is that you've plunged yourself in to. For those very few percentile that aren't really versed in psychedelics that unwillingly get a smacken....thats a mistake that will come with a price more times than not. Even people heavily experienced in psychedelics cannot prepare for a high dose experience.

Just because people come to this site doesnt necessarily mean that they're coming with the right attitude or intent. Who says that they're not coming here just like they would with the shroomery or bluelight?

If someone coming here gets put off at threads such as this....well....it evidently wasn't for them. You have to take the bad with the good on this path. It's all part of that bigger picture that is dmt.

You said you haven't had a breakthrough dose yet? I suggest that when the day comes and when you feel ultimately ready down the road...you load up 35-40..and attempt to get it all in one or two inhalations....whether it be enhanced leaf in a bong or freebase in a GVG (notsure what your method is).....then you will understand why this thread was created.

Thanks for your replies guys, appreciated.

Im not, nor never will be giving out DMT willy nilly. I guess im taking for granted the respect I have for it, and the months of research ive done, and assuming that in others. I havent told anyone about my interest in DMT, and its totally spiritual. I have no desire to get "off my chops" to see "cool shit".

All I can say is so far Ive seen some amazing, impossible, beautiful visions. Ive felt the universe give me an enormous amount of love. I havent had a breakthrough, I dont intend to even try anytime soon, I feel I have a lot to learn at the level im at.

Im not attacking anyone, I dont want to provoke argument, I just feel what Ive experienced so far was so gentle and astounding that I wouldnt want anyone to be put off experiencing that.

Again, Im talking low dose, one hit through a machine. Thats all im talking about, and Ive had nothing but positive experiences so far.

RE set and setting. I make sure I wont be disturbed, turn phone off. Have a shower and get into clean comfortable clothes. Turn out the lights and leave a lamp on. Then I spend a few minutes clearing my thoughts to make sure I want to do this at this time, and concentrate on my breathing. I have tried without the above and it was terrible, just a waste really.

Given the widely varied effects (some of which seem independent of dose size) it's damn near impossible to say, "I'm only talking about the effects you get from Xmg in Yhits out of Zmethod." The effects of this tend to be radically different for any individual each time they vaporize, to say nothing about comparing one person's physiology to another's.

Don't take this the wrong way, but until you've been hyperslapped...until you've seen the darkness that's out there...you can't possibly talk about not wanting anyone to miss out on the gentleness and pure love and positive experiences. It's not all sunshine and daisies and while, ime, the vast majority of people I introduced to DMT had amazing experiences, that's not even a drop in the bucket as far as potential experiences go.

When I first met spice I thought that it was something that everyone [that I know, I know a lot of people who dabble in psychedelics] should be introduced to. In my area alone I know more than 100 people who have experienced it (I gave up counting around that point!). I probably introduced about 30 of them to it. The further I got into it and a couple of hyperslaps later I came to realise that this is far too powerful and unpredictable for general use, even by those who have a fair amount of experience in psychedelic realms.

I’ve been working with psychedelics for 20 years now and spice for 4. The journeys I have had with spice weigh heavily. I have gained a lot from spice but some things that I have experienced have created a genuine separation with others around me and the world at large. Getting in deep does have its costs, and you should be prepared for them. I believe that for some these costs may well be found to be too great.

As Snozz says this tool is very unpredictable. You don’t know for sure when the extreme side of spice will come. I have been surprised to have the extreme end of experiences from doses that should not even work in my usual usage (I once cleared a pipe after my friend used it and broke through, her dose was 2/3 of my normal dose – less than I normally need to feel any psychedelic effects whatsoever).

This is not about elitism or scaremongering, just fair warning to newcomers that the rabbit hole goes very far indeed and proper thought should be given to paddling in these waters as they may well find themselves out of their depth. I believe spice often waits until you are drawn in to show you what it’s really all about, which leaves many with a false sense of security. This experience may give you love and oneness but it can also show you the most terrible of horrors and result in separation from what used to be a comfortable and understandable reality.

This is very well said. It almost feels as if it's not so much about the dose itself, but more about the accumulation of stronger-than-average experiences, until it suddenly decides to show you its true face, consequently shattering the whole basis of what you thought was reality. After that you feel like you never want to do it again, but you have to, because you need to learn/unlearn more, you need to get to the bottom of the hole.

Also I've noticed the definition of "breakthrough" is very vague. Most consider it's when you completely lose your body and are somewhere else. Some consider it's when you become everything and know everything. Some consider it's even more than that. So these definitions are kinda meaningless because a breakthrough can have infinite layers, you can break through a breakthrough as many times as you want, every time going deeper. You cannot hit a wall with DMT. Or you can but just try it again and you'll realize that wall was an illusion.

Interesting replies, appreciated.

We all come from a place where we did not know what it would be like.
The only way to find out is to try, and for the right reasons, and in the right way.

Thanks again x

just this week, while browsing around reading, i have seen new faces

a.) talk about how they were terrified when smoking spice through a frozen cucumber in their mom's house, because they forgot when mom was coming home.

b.) discuss smuggling spice across international borders in their rectum (a topic which was thankfully removed by our ever-diligent mods)...

c.) discussing smoking purchased spice

none of this strikes me as approaching DMT in the right way... telling someone they should not do a thing is not discouraging them, it is encouraging them to weigh options... options which they are free to disregard, once they have considered them... people every day tell me i shouldn't smoke cigarettes... &, having weighed the risks & rewards myself, i choose to disregard their advice... it does not make them elitists, or bad people... it just means that they might actually, in the midst of this cold world, give a damn about me... & i like that, a lot...

My personal relation to DMT has changed a bit in the past...

First, when I tried sub-breakthrough doses several times, I thought like "wow! I need to tell all my friends about this - it´s just so interesting!!!" Then, after I finally broke through for the first time, I actually changed my mind...a lot and very quickly. I adopted a completely different perspective on ´telling other people about DMT´. I admit it had taken me several weeks to become "fully functional" again after my first breakthrough on DMT - it was just "too much" to handle for me at that time. The EVENT turned everything in my life (and especially in my mind) upside down, uprooted everything I had taken for granted...

Noisedownstairs (and/or others), I sincerely try not to be an elitist here... but let me tell you that some people (including myself) had some very serious "social/psychological" issues after their first breakthrough that they weren´t able to even imagine beforehand... So, since my first breakthrough, I have been rather hesitant about talking to other people about DMT.

And, frankly, I don´t feel bad that I don´t tell other people about something that can seriously mess them up. I also sincerely hope it is not an elitist approach. There are definitely better substances to "have fun" with. If someone is really determined to experience the bottom(s) of the rabbit hole(s), than internet discussions like this one will not turn them away. If, by any chnce, these people would got scared by such "dismal drivel", then I would never regret it. On the contrary - I would regret if they ever underestimated the power of Spice...

Nevertheless, I really appreciate your posts, Noisedownstairs. I think it is very important to talk about these issues, and doubts, openly

The biggest problem I have with these types of discussions is this.

Taking into account that everyone will experience a slightly different perspective on this based on their own lifes expereinces and up bringing as well as of course bio chemical make up and what they may or may not have consumed in their lifetime I am totally being respectful to the comments here but struggle a bit with the ambiguity of what is being written.

We are either playing out the story of he emperors new clothes here or not? So my question is this - which one is going to speak up first and raise their head above the wall and say it how it is?

Before you guys ask me to, firstly I have very limited experience with this, but I have to say it certainly makes you appreciate life a lot more.....

i dont understand the question.

i thought everyone was telling it how it is.

how is it?

DMT was/is not traumatic for me.

It didn't change my views or give me any questions.

I enjoyed it, but it did not have any profundity.

Not that long ago I had the pleasure of taking some high doses of it, in the 200mg range.
Wow. It was awesome, I think I mumbled "oh my god" and "wow" over and over for 10 minutes, I nearly pissed myself it was so intense.

The visuals were downright amazing, nicer than I had ever experienced, and it likely helped that I had a decent bit of caapi in me too... and some cactus...

And yet it opened no doors and did not alter my perception.
I had no problem integrating my experience or dealing with it.

I actually don't get why someones mind would be blown from the experience other than from the intensity of the effects. It is like a beautiful sunset, an amazing site, it can be awe inspiring and maybe overwhelming in intensity, but at the same time I feel like it is no big deal.

Maybe I have done too many psychedelics? DMT is more intense than most of what I have experienced, I did have a cactus experience that was as visual and intense, but it was a very high dose and I combined it with Nitrous Oxide.

I do think that point of view informs the experience, but then I never do it if I have ANY anxiety about it. Only when I am comfortable and in the mood.

So... for me DMT is a great psychedelic, but no big deal after the effects wear off. As someone who is very spiritual I can't say I found it to be spiritual or mystical at all. The effects make sense to me, and I can't say I think hyperspace is a location so much as an experience/effect. The idea that it is another dimension is not something that has ever occurred to me in or after the experience, it always strikes me as an effect.

I agree that it is not for everybody, but I feel that way about coffee too.

Have you tried it orally, Albert?

Also, 200mg, Im pretty sure its just not possible to inhale that effectively. I think you should try a GVG if you havent yet.

As for your comment about coffee, coffee wont bring a life changing experience and challenge people existentially due to it's effects. Maybe DMT didnt for you, but it certainly did for hundreds or thousands of people, so it's of a whole different order than coffee.. The necessity of care for preparation and integration is certainly much more signficant with DMT than with coffee.

Yes, I have tried it orally, both as pharma and as aya.

I used a special contraption to vape the DMT, it is like a small bong (without water) connected to a crackpipe. You heat up the spice and the vapor fills the thing up and then you hit it, it allows very high doses to be taken, it was custom made for a friend who could not inhale enough from other devices for DMT, they tried over and over but could not break through until they had the thing built for them. The drawback is that the vapor is so hot and thick that the next day after a decent session your lungs hurt. That and the taste persists long after you come down (a few hours)

I agree about the difference of Coffee and DMT as you wrote it.

inhaling 200mg?!?

somethings off.

I think a lot would be off, way, way off

Firstly, thanks for this thread.....
I would like to add a small yet significant caveat.
Not only "why you should NOT take DMT" but "Why you should NOT give DMT to someone else"

My psychology background rings with alarm bells...... Sometimes people would justify thier own usage by getting others to take DMT. Which is where some of this thread has been going.

On no account would I advocate ANYONE giving ANYONE DMT ever. I feel that the whole point of this forum is for the true seekers to be able to educate themselves and be able to 'extract' just enough for thier own personal experimentation.

Also, I have read about 'gifting' DMT in this forum, where I feel the line is crossed. That, by ANY measure is 'supply' and illegal.

I also feel that writing about taking 200mg in a specially made device is also crossing the boundaries for acceptable 'attitude', and borders on 'one-up manship', and that speaks volumes about the experience and naivety of the writer.
Dialog on this level is pointless to say the least.

Personally, I have met many people who are genuinely interested in taking DMT. That then becomes 'thier' issue and my stance is to point them to litrature and forums such as this. I hide my usage and skill at extracting like a Pirate hides his treasure. That is my issue. However, the boundaries do cross over sometimes, but please be aware of the other readers of these threads who come for education and also others who gather 'dirt' to shut it down.
No offence intended

Love and Peas
G