I already offered sound potential explanations for why the potency may vary. But that seems to have been largely ignored. So I will repost:



You will not notice these differences with your eyes. No one has done experiments about the pyrolysis of dmt and at what temperatures this occurs. No one has measured the rate of decompositions of dmt in the gas phase. These measurements could shed light on why different crystal shapes may differ in potency. Lets say when you heat dmt crystals with a lot of surface area the more oxygen they are exposed to causes them to degrade faster so less dmt is absorbed by your lungs. Now crystals have less surface area like these diamond ones the dmt may be protected from oxygen while its entering the gas phase. These kinds of minor differenes in vaporization can make a difference in dose. In pharmacology all this stuff is considered when administering a drug. Although most drugs are not administered by smoking there are still many approaches to answering these kind of "formulation" questions.

The OP is the one offering fantastic explanations about energy and about how dmt isn't even a drug. Neither of which made any sense. So I just pointed it out. Its not my opinion. Opinion has nothing to do with this.



Distilled water is bad for you. If you drink pure water the ions in your cells will rush out into the water to reach equillibrium and your cells can become destabilized as a result of this and they can die. Off topic I know but really? I actually can't believe someone thinks distilled water is better then "swamp" water...?

[quote=burnt]



It has nothing to do with that, the DMT is melted inside the wire of the machine bubbler, so it gives up the structure it had. But what stays is the INFORMATION the molecule achieved by the geometry.

But we really should shut that down, it just leads us nowhere. You believe what you believe and I think different.

I just vaped this morning around 60mg 'usual' crystal material. I had an intense experience but was 'only' gone for 5minutes till I was back in the room and couldn't remember anything of where I was.(which is not a bad thing) Yesterday I vaped half of that and was gone for 5minutes, too but I can still remember where I was. And that was not as half as 'far out' like with my diamond experience, which I told I still know every bit of.

But I will work on the geometry of the crystals first, before going deeper into the theory. So I won't say anything about it till then.

Btw. I have to apologize for my cynicism about the solvent.
The Hexan built totally new crystals, very fragile ones & far from diamonds- with the melted down diamonds from yesterday. I'll show 'em later. and then I will re-dissolve them in Naphta again...

how will it store information after it has been redissolved? where is this information stored and in what form?

CaptainFuture, I dont see why we need to shut that down. You have to understand that there is a common rational skeptical orientation in this forum, we like to question things and not be satisfied with face-value explanations. This isnt an offense to you, its just how we feel, that its better to get to the bottom of arguments.

Personally I dont believe in magic. I think anything we might think magical or 'unnatural' is just a part of an order we dont understand. I dont know how you feel but from what you talk, it seems as though you are trying to describe this phenomenon also as something "explainable" (using words and expressions such as stored information and so on). So why then react as if its bad that a belief is questioned as if there is no point to it? Isnt it better if we keep investigating this, and then in the end truth must come out, whichever way it is?

I mean, the first option I mentioned is a blind test, which could easily show one way or another. The other thing IMO is, if you think information can be stored in a molecule, then it would be interesting to hear your proposed mechanism for that, specially the fact that you say it doesnt matter if the molecule has been redissolved afterwards or not.

I think you should expect from now on if you ever post proposed theories or beliefs in the nexus, that they might be questioned and challenged, hopefully respectfully. This isnt a threat, this is a great tool to help us develop further our own ideas with the feedback of others

Its all about Biophysics not chemistry. You can't explain it from a material point of view, maybe you want to know more about Biophysics, but my english and my time really is insufficient for this.


Because it leads us nowhere. I made an experience, you won't believe it and try to explain it down by your belief system which unluckily isn't mine. Again, I am talking about Biophysics. And I believe only what I experienced myself and this is what I call knowledge, not what the Wiki writes. (doesn't mean you believe what Wiki writes.)
I am not offended, really, my ego's down since quite a while now.(Ego is another thing many people won't believe but I do, because of my experience.)
But as I said, it simply leads us nowhere.
The only option (and this is where you and others should put energy into) is to have more people growing perfect geometric crystals (thats why I am sharing my knowledge I am getting about it). And afterwards, if they have them at hand, to test them.
And that is when investigation really starts. Not by discussing belief systems.


Its way too much to explain and I don't have the english words neither the time for it. If you are interested in it, maybe you want to read about Biophysics. You will find answers to those questions there. I am believing this because I experienced these things myself.


Yes, and in my point of view respectfully starts when others try to bring in their own experiences on the theory.
I already said that- you just have to remember the moment when you wanted to explain DMT to a beloved person. The only thing which really helped was to let them try it themselves.


So, once again, fellow mind travelers. Get up and start growing crystals. You don't need anything more than your DMT and Naphta, which you both should already have. And maybe you will find Diamonds, too. And smoke them. And find something unexpected...

I am working further to see what brings them up. For now I know they don't grow with Hexan. Will post pictures later.

This is the 2nd re-x (from the 4,5grs) with Hexan, pure white but still no diamonds. (but thats the Hexan)


Those were the diamonds from yesterday out of the Hexan...


I never had such tiny fragile crystals. They look like freeze precipitated but are grown at room temps over night. (and fridge for 3 hours today)

I don't think people here would have much problem understanding biophysical explanation for your theories. I think you should really give them a try becasue there are no deaf ears here!

With all due respect, captain physics, nowhere have I seen biophysics referring to "stored information" in cells beyond the DNA and RNA mechanisms. Endlessness's point, and his concern, are valid, and I reiterate Infundibulum's sentiments that if you have a biophysics explanation of this phenomena, we are here ready to learn. What you propose, however, unless you can provide evidence and proof, seems to share more in common with homeopathy than biophysics (i.e. the ability of a cell to hold and transmit "information"):







I think Endlessness's point was that a certain amount of proof is required for outrageous claims (and all claims, at one point in time, were outrageous, so I am not discrediting the claim here). It's just that without a description of the mechanisms at work, it remains a conjectural explanation, like homeopathy. We all have to ask ourselves - now why would I take this information seriously? Because it feels right? To me that is a dangerous road, where all is permissible without the burden of proof. To you, it may not be. But expect to be challenged on it when you bring up terms like biophysics and the cellular storing of information. You are using scientific terms and fields to back you up, but then eschew the very scientific method that has allowed for them: evidence, hypothesis, proof, theory - stopping instead at the level of hypothesis.

While the hypothesis is certainly interesting and may well be sufficient for you, don't expect it to be sufficient for others. This is not a clash of systems of belief, as many would argue, but an employment of a part of a whole system (the scientific method), parading as its whole.

I think that's what elicits the responses you have been getting. And if we don't delicately ask for proof, what standards do we have as a community to call out charlatans, pretenders and fabulists? Where is the line in the sand? If I told you that in fact there are evil spirits in the diamond crystals that rearrange the molecules to make those diamond shapes, staying in them after to wreak their malevolent will and that you should not smoke them for fear of being forever banished to brimstone and fire, would you not demand proof? I would hope so!

Anyway, just thought an explanation was in order, because these kinds of issues arise over and over here. No disrespect meant, I trust none taken.

Cheers,

JBArk

Well, I guess I stick then with being a homeopathic charlatan, pretender or fabulist.
This really is getting in the wrong direction, especially since this is a community about Dimethyltryptamin, the spirit molecule.

Hopefully someone will try to grow those crystals and see what he/her finds.
I'll keep on posting what I achieve in growing them.

I clearly wasn't calling you that! And that's too bad, cause I really like what you are doing and was genuinely interested (although healthily sceptical) about how biophysics fit in to your hypothesis!! I was hoping you wouldn't get defensive, but offered it rather as a simple explanation of the types of responses you have been receiving. Oh, well, on to crystals then!!

JBArk

I agree with El Capitano Futuro. The entirety of the theoretical construct must follow the primary issue at hand, that being the study and development of a proven, repeatable methodology to create these specific crystallographic geometries. Once this technology is refined and perfected to a point of predictable outcome, then blind tests and research can begin with full vigor. This is exciting territory! Again, I feel the need to reiterate what the Captain has asked of the Nexian community (chemists and laypersons alike), shall we explore the formulation of these specific geometries, through method, trial and error? Thus arriving at a consensus by which we might have the adequate basis to launch further studies? :idea:

It's plain to see that some individuals are inclined to viewing the universe in purely rational terms, while others have experiences which occur in states of consciousness which can only be described as mystical. Whether or not an individual believes in the living presence of a central, Omniscient being, housed within all which exists... or not, it becomes quite obvious that the debate will continue until our species finds a way to unite these juxtapositions in perspective.



Well said endlessness! What is mysterious and quite unknown, may just be an area or type of knowledge with which we are, as of yet, unfamiliar. This knowledge may or may not parallel our logical constructs of this universe. What does seem crystal clear (pun most definitely intended), is that we are, as a species, forever on the brink of new understanding, as we are the most curious variety of monkeys. It would only seem reasonable that we find new avenues of exploring these potential realities, collectively? If crystallographic geometries and biophysics play a role in seeing something new, Sweet!

I feel the major barrier to pertinent discoveries or any significant scientific breakthrough, is the strict adherence to the established methods of measuring and interpreting the known. What is known can never be of use, in context to that which remains unknown, towards unraveling that which is hereto, mysterious.

That being said, the known is recorded through tremendous collective effort and this can not be underestimated, however, if in our security of holding on to what is considered as already discovered and a settled issue, are we missing something else? In our arrogance, can we be so sure we have enough information, that the speck of intelligence we embody is capable of grasping even the remotest fraction of certainty? It would not be too much an irony, if when we reach another level of comprehending the laws of statistical mechanics, that even more unanswered questions are raised than placated. Given the infinitude of possibilities, existentially, any working model of reality is but a minute glimpse and what we hold as unfathomable mystery, could very well become common knowledge. After all, yesterday's magic is today's fundamental scientific fact. I suspect there will remain a considerable degree of mystery for some time to come. Crystallography may be of some small help in unlocking some new insights into what is happening inside of our central-most awareness and being. Asking if this could be proven is premature but IMO it is a most worthwhile question to raise.

So much of our experience is intertwined in paradox. As receptory/preceptory entities, we are forged in the crossroads of attempting to comprehend the realm of dualities/polarities, in the context of our very nature. While it's plausible to hold onto a belief system, as with faith in reason, chaos or Deity, it is quite another step to make the voyage of self discovery. To set aside everything we hold as real and open ourselves to an awareness of that which is thus far unknown. In this light, I still wonder about the nature of our core being and our mirrored relationship to the Omniself. How does this play into the effect we experience form DMT and other psychedelics.

Hey, I didn't coin the labels, The Spirit Molecule, Flesh of the Gods, Sacred Cactus or Magic Mushrooms, so there is undeniably a collective awareness being shared, within the context of psychedelic exploration. Is a direct interphase with the Indivisibility of Spirit accessible through the conscious direction of our inquiries, under such a chemical spell? Can immersion of an individuals awareness into the light of the the One awaken new views into such a unified field of energy? Could the sages and mystics have been correct, all this time? If so, can a map be made to share this journey with those who have not seen such a plane of being? I still wonder and yet, I digress...

As CaptainsFuture wisely states, "Yes, and in my point of view respectfully starts when others try to bring in their own experiences on the theory. I already said that- you just have to remember the moment when you wanted to explain DMT to a beloved person. The only thing which really helped was to let them try it themselves."

While there is ample cause to follow through with the classification and effect of alternate crystallographic geometries in DMT crystals, I always return to the same point of consideration. How and why does the Spirit Molecule grant access, to some individuals, to such levels of consciousness as Samadhi/Satori/Divine Rapture? It seems like such an intelligent quality for a chemical molecule to embody and so, to spark within our minds. This is where I personally believe the theories end and the journey begins. And we take it alone...


While I respect the brilliance of those authorities who have spoken throughout this intriguing thread, I must trust my transcendental experiences as having a deeper level of comprehension about what is taking place exponentially, during moments of such Omni-personal immersions (under the influence of DMT or other entheogens). I maintain that there are largely unutilized organs/glands of reception, which are activated from our symbiosis with psychedelics and/or through extensive training in concentration through meditaional practices. There is so much to learn...

I was just trying to conjure up an analogy which might have some parallel to the topic. My bad? You have every right to see this line of reasoning as flawed. Metaphors usually fall victim to some degree of contradiction in the presentation of hypothetically arranged facts and ideas, so I am not surprised by your reaction. From my perspective, it is a thinly-veiled attempt to proclaim yourself as possessing a superior intellect. Not necessary, as I surrender to your logic. I've always been oriented to a largely intuitive, esoteric and inspirational modality of interpreting subjectivity. We each see this process through different lenses. I dig transcendence and you dig reason. This is in some ways, a charming and quite pervasive polarity within the hallowed halls of the Nexus, after all. Frankly, my ego is most honored to receive your rather dismissive remarks. I wear them proudly as a badge of courage (hehehe). I am not a logician and cannot compete on an equal playing field. Your are obviously a smarter amoeba than I am. Happy now?

that being said, I usually only drink spring water from our well. Anyway, I'll drink eight glasses of distilled water and risk the destabilised state of cellular ionization. You drink eight glasses of unfiltered swamp water. In twelve hours we can connect and review our findings about the purity of our individual experiences of the absorption of the H2O molecules, inherent in our eight glasses of liquid. This of course, would be after your repeated experience of vomiting into the toilet, followed by hours spent in extreme diarrhea. Enjoy the ride. Might I recommend a bit of meditation while you are so preoccupied? It may not help but then again, ya never know until you try. :idea:

Peace, love & light

It has nothing to do with belief. And your obviously not understanding what I am saying. The point is that the way the dmt melts can vary with the structure of the crystal and the conditions in which that happens. The conditions under which a compound enters the gas phase can effect the dose inhaled by the individual. It can effect the decomposition of the compound. This can be studied easily using normal analytical technology.

Why do you think people have so much trouble breaking through on dmt until they get their smoking technique down?

Your statement about information being stored in the geometry doesn't make any sense. Its incoherent.



Well your the one who wants to drink distilled water.....



Let me bring up a good example of how the matrix or formulation in which a compound is in can effect its pharmacokinetic properties. Artemisin a compound used to treat malaria is found in plant called artemisia. Ok great. So you can take this drug by either making a tea eating the plant or taking the pure substance in capsules. When administered as a tea more of the drug reaches the blood faster. When administered in a capsule it happens slower. Its possible something in tea effects dispersion of the compound into the gastrointestinal tract. Its possible the crystals just dissolve slower. There are lots of potential explanations. Its the same with this dmt crystal stuff. There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for potential differences in potency.

So let me get this straight. you wouldn't drink rain water or glacier water?



Back on topic:

Blind test is a must here. Suggestion with dmt is a powerful thing. Suggestion without dmt is a powerful thing. I think it was mountain dew who changed the percentage of yellow in the green on their packaging and got flooded with complaints about the change in flavor, even though only the packaging had changed. Don't get me wrong Captain Future, your crystals are amazing and I'd love to sample them. I just think a blind test needs to be done to know for sure if there is a difference. I personally doubt there would be. Maybe this is a bad analogy, but do you think a malformed loaf of bread would taste different than a perfect loaf of bread even if they were made with the exact same ingredients and cooked in the same oven? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm sincerely trying to understand your position.

IYHO???

What if the sense it makes is relative to an area of knowledge which remains still undiscovered and unproven? My take on what the Crystalline Captain is attempting to define, is his subjective experience in DMT potency, based largely on the external crystallographic geometry (and the possibility that such perfect crystalline structure could amplify the DMT saturation by certain "information" stored therein). He also notes an enhanced capacity to recall his experiences. I can't fault him for such a gift from the Spirit Molecule. Isn't this enough to merit a measure of respect and an effort to be objective? Let's give credit where credit is due, what an artist this fellow is. These crystals are truly magnificent! Speaking as a gemologist, mineral collector and art lover, I am floored. Kudos Capitano!

Other than semantics and personal ideologies, how is this so very different from your view? This might necessitates being in harmony with laws which we do not, as of yet, comprehend. Objectively, we can't really prove if this contention has valid existence outside of CF's subjective impressions of what he witnessed directly within his own biochemistry. Neither can we disprove it as fantasy. All things are possible in this universe of infinite potentiality. Who are we to declare any absolutes, given how little we do fully understand?

Even joedirt joked about using crystallized minerals to potentially "store informations/energy". While I suspect this was quite tongue n' cheek and essentially, a playful jab, it is not a worthless idea in and of itself. Speculative yes, worthless no. Any lens, three dimensional or figurative, can be invaluable in the magnification or transduction of energy and possibly even... knowledge? Hypothetically speaking, of course.



Very clearly spoken, burnt. Nicely put and to the point. On many levels it does seem to share some common ground with CaptainFutrue. The other side of the mountain?

Exactly. So it is by definition, being both undiscovered and unproven, baseless conjecture! I think that's all that's being said here. And baseless conjecture can be quite fun - I indulge at least twice a day!! But if it is being passed off as a theory...



It is different from his view in that it has neither been rigorously tested nor consistent with what has been rigorously tested!! Our view of the world is, fortunately, wonderfully pliable and adaptable as the result of science (it changes radically at least once a generation), but is a system which demands a certain discipline and "rigour" in order to function and properly reflect what we understand about the world. Observing the world and coming up with hypotheses that fly in the face of everything we understand is wonderful and welcome, is in fact a NECESSARY part of the process, but these hypotheses must submit themselves to testing and proof... why would you NOT want to prove some radical shift in our understanding of the world? Our only way of distinguishing the phony from the bona fide and implementing a usable scale of authority, however, is to insist that "outrageous claims demand outrageous proofs". Which brings me back to homeopathy...

And yes, we do not yet comprehend these potential laws, so they too are baseless conjecture! And fun, but, at the risk of offending (which is certainly not my purpose ), not terribly serious I am afraid. And no, "all things are not possible in this universe of infinite potentials". As it exists presently, pigs cannot fly, H20 cannot melt at -20C and 1 Bar, and I cannot, no matter how much I will it, transform into a glass of milk, to cite a few examples. The set of "infinity" does NOT, contrary to the popular understanding, include all possibilities.

Anyway, me wants mo xtals!!! so post away mr picman!! And please, needless to say, don't get your knickers in a knot over this post. It is proffered in the spirit of debate, and if not met with like spirit, I promise, I shall desist!

JBArk

Just as my ego was getting all would up for a clever reply... your words made me see myself from the lens of another and I began to laugh quite uncontrollably. It does sound rather flaky... You got me! BTW, I like the reference to homeopathy, it is a good comparative example and perhaps a remarkably parallel realm of knowledge? :idea:

I went into detail about homeopathy in the post above that one^^^.

Cheers,
JBArk

EDIT:



Homeopathy is a realm of misinformation, ignorance and quackery, I am afraid. How did an industry, an incredibly PROFITABLE industry, arise around an "alternative medicine" whose precepts fly in the face of everything we understand about pharmacology and chemistry and physics, providing no evidence whatsoever and having been proved in so many studies to be no more effective than placebo? (I am naive, I guess) Marketing is clearly not only the tool of the rational materialists... Human beings never cease to amaze me...

Well that's a horse of a different color. Silly me. BTW, I don't use homeopathic medicines but I never saw the need to denounce their use. It works for some people, despite your enthusiastic cynicism. In light of such a negative spin, I take back my statement about the comparative value of the analogy, as I respect CaptainFuture's accomplishments and on several levels, do share his perspective. Words don't always suffice to express this type of experience, since it is so very subjective. It's a truth to it's witness and mere speculation to the rest of the sentient beings within ear shot. :idea:

Again, apologies if I offend. But there is not one shred of misinformation in what I wrote. And I was not comparing what is going on here to homeopathy, just underlining the POTENTIAL dangers of hypotheses that are not properly defended or proved. My apologies are sincere, but i cannot help note how sensitive these issues are, so I shall desist... again...

It's just a shame that no matter how much ground I give to opposing arguments, those arguers always remain so steadfast, unwilling to cede an inch or a comma...

JBArk, bowing out

If only you all would have used that time to grow DMT gems...

I wasn't offended, JB, no worries.
I have started something here, which I wouldn't have expected while writing about it.

I just looked at the Naphta from yesterday. No gems in all of the bowls. So wtf? I would have bet that there will be gems again at least in the one where I melted the gems from two days ago in (which the Hexan made those fluffy crystals from).
I will re-dissolve them and see what happens for tomorrow. Pix later.

What is the secret that lets the DMT molecule form those perfect crystals??? A miracle.
(I am still doing everything like the first time, except I used the Hexan in between)

(<-----) Hey, I just recognized I am enlightened now Well if that hasn't anything to say...