predosing with THH or any other harmala is going to give a different effect. A different experience. The effects of the harmalas are probably going to last longer and have a different effect, including potentials for nausea and potential problems due to foods ingested through out the day. Sublingually they still have to go through the body and work its way to the brain. smoking is direct. Denis Mckenna when asked about changa pointed out that Changa directly inhibited MAO in the brain. No middle men...
However, predosing sub is really amazing. Different though.
If you used caapi copy would the effects be similar to workign with caapi leaf? no, but they would be effective and really pretty amazing still. harmaline would be present and that is going to bring about a different quality. From what Swim under stands there is no harmaline in the leaf.
One could take caapi copy tincture or just BUY SOME CAAPI and soak it in high proof vodka lol... and then evap that onto some Paudarco or whatever smoking mixture you kids like these days and there you have it. It would probably be best if there was some smoking medium it was evaporated into...

With regard to the differences between Changa and traditional Ayahuasca. I think they are still quite different... I have had some amazing healing and enlightening experiences from both. I think that drinking the tea can give more time to integrate and accept, and is more about earthly matters, whereas changa breakthroughs are more about work in hyperspace. I have occasionally broken through into hyperspace on Aya, but it is rare..
There is a place for both IMO.. no need for traditionalist dogma!

SWIM agree's whole heatedly!
that traditionalist dogma is crap... total crap... they will not even post anything on the subject on the ayahausca forum because they are fundamentalists there.
Swim tends to think that Changa and aya are super different. The tea can give some real amazing lessons, so can the smoke... whether it is earthly or spacey really depends on the method of preparation, the set intention and setting, and the method of working with it. Swim prepared a VERY earthy bear changa. working with osha root and bear berry as well as some other very earth blends... smoked appropriately this blend lasted for two and a half hours with intermittent re-ups in smoking. The level of intigration and acceptance was fairly immediate and was a focus and required less time to get too, with out dealing with a lot of difficult processes to get to that point. SWIM finds it cuts to the jib...
But swim is taking about a 10x extract of caapi leaf and not enhanced leaf... SWIM is still not sure if people are on the same page with that.

They awfully should be!

I'm just about to turn onto that page

Should be infusing the 10X into 1g mullein/caapi leaf later today.

try that with colts foot as well... colts foot with peppermint and mullein is nice on the lungs. but really a tad of Florida water added to it is all one needs for pure loveliness.
yes they awfully should be!
it is really really sad how the aya forum is dealing with the changa topic... such fundamentalism is often found in christian churches...

This explains an awful lot.

The leaf just feels so crisp and pure. Like a doctor with a very light touch. I always feel like I've been flicked lightly on the nose with a magic wand after smoking with the leaves. Whereas with the vine it's a much heavy... well dreamy's probably the word, but the leaf gives such instant healing and a much more noticable afterglow for myself.

Thanks. I'll look into Colts Foot. I'm not familiar with it.

To be fair changa is not ayahuasca..and I dont understand how people can compare the healing effects of real ayahuasca to that of smoking changa..there are things that ayahuasca can do that I just cannot see changa doing..

I know this because I started to drink ayahuasca for a real health problem in my degestive tract..changa isnt going to get the job done..ayahuasca is 'le purge" for a reason..

Smoking changa doesnt have the same medicinal benifits for the gut as drinking ayahusca does..its as simple as that..changa just isnt ayahuasca..its changa..

That said..the ayahuasca forums have their own little agenda..and that is to create a board with infomation and such reguarding ayahuasca..they dont talk about certain things for legal reasons..extracting DMT(outside of brewing) being one of those things..

SO c'mon, all you changa lovers: favourite recipes, please. I've got a box full of marvellous leaves and roots and suchlike ... all things are possible, and there is beautiful snow precipitating as we speak.

I have not yet been on the caapi extract page, but hope to remedy that before too long.

otherwise, I'm pretty old skool - so here's mine:

GRAMMAW 88's FAVOURITE CHANGA RECIPES:

Electric Sheep (50/50 blue lotus/calea, 1:1 ratio - IPA soak)
Golden Temporal (50/50 caapi leaf/d'arco, 1:1 ratio - IPA soak)

Share the love, people!!

88 - Can't wait to try that Golden Temporal blend! SWIM has been making her first enhanced leaf and changa blends over the past week, but hasn't had time to try them out yet. So far she has some enhanced caapi, some enhanced d'arco and some electric sheep. Everything to try out your favorites!

She very much would like to try the ayahuasca android as well, but has not found a vendor for the chaliponga.

The herb amounts that come out of her 1:1 mixtures seem very small. Should she just put them on top of a screen or ash bed?

House suggested changa spliffs. Does one roll up all changa and put it out when starting to break through, or just some changa in the middle of straight leaf?

Thank you!

a 1:1 changa blend only requires a 80-100mg. A fine screen is perfect for this. It's very strong and I wonder if a splif isn't wasteful?

Small water bong or VG, fine screen, pinch of changa and bob is not your uncle anymore.

Agreed on ES, that's my blend right there.

Golden Temporal - what a perfect name for the Darko blend. Although, I have not used Caapi leaf in mine. Mine is 1:1 Pau d'Arco with 1g spice:300mg 10:1 Caapi white Vine extract.

I think your cat should find itself with some, soon.

It's really special - I am new to Pau D'Arco, but have a real respect for it



I believe Maya have The Old Man of the Forest ...



I usually ptu a few screens in the bong, and then just a thin layer of caapi leaf on that; the changa goes on top then ...

I have a very simple smoke that is awe inspiring. 1:1 15x passion flower from
heavenly-products.com done with 99% ipa

Someone offered me some changa recently which was straight mugwort and spice, I estimated the percentage at about 15 however the smoke had an uncanny dreamy property and allowed me to "see" much more vividly than I have in ages. The mugwort also seemed to keep the experience going up to 50% longer.
I was impressed that the mild smoke could be as in-depth as it was.

I've rolled up about 150mg mixed with some unenhanced mullein, just enough to make a spliff rollable. This was smoked outside, a very nice journey followed.

I can't say anything about favorite recipes, but here's what I'm working on:

- 10g caapi leaf everclear extract + 1g golden-tinged spice, infused into 0.5g caapi leaf / 0.5g mullein.....for the healing Changaya.

- 10g blue waterlily everclear extract (petals & stamens) + 1g full-spec spice, infused into 1g blue waterlily petals

- 10g Mayan waterlily (Nymphaea ampla) everclear extract (petals & stamens) + 1g spice (not sure yet), infused into 1g Mayan waterlily petals

Much love ghostman, 88 and gammagore.