Even factoring in the extra medical treatment you might need later?!

It's quite a nasty substance, both for you and the environment, and now banned for many industrial uses. Perhaps this is why it's available cheaply? I'm sure it would probably work, as would benzene (jk!) but...really, why do that?

Thanks for the link. While I had glanced over that info already before I posted, my question was more focused on the chemistry of the extraction. Tetrachloroethylene (C2Cl4) and most naphtha solutions have toxicity levels around the same exposure levels and serious issues with C2CL4 were only reported after many years of exposure. While the effects do seem shocking, Naphtha DOES tend to have similar toxic effects outside of the skin irritation. I suspect if Naphtha was as commonly used in the way C2Cl4 has been you would see similar health risks associated with it.

When I said cheap though, I should have said free. A trusted friend of mine is partial owner of a small time dry cleaning business and would simply give me the C2Cl4 for a share of the product and my teaching him the extraction process. He has worked with the chemical for years, knows the proper precautions to take and has all the proper safety equipment (ventilators, aprons, arm gloves etc). Though overall it does seem like a LOT of trouble to go through just to save a few dollars. If we do decide to go through with using C2Cl4 I assure you safety would definitely something we not would cut corners on.

OK, but in that case, the physical properties don't sound too great either... Denser than toluene, and with a higher BP. And toluene already takes forever to evaporate...

Denser than water can come in handy if you have a sep. funnel.

Higher BP doesn't necessarily mean slower evaporation. But then I REALLY wouldn't recommend evaporating PCE to the open air. Back salt the base extract, then return the solvent to the dry cleaning operation's waste stream.

It won't be on the ignitable liquid database as it is non-flammable, which is some kind of plus.

Other factors to consider are - increased likelihood of emulsion formation in comparison with naphtha; freeze precipitation probably won't work; and there's a small possibility of it reacting with the DMT.

What you are describing, 5pac3mau5, is essentially experimental w.r.t. the solvent used, so in a way it would be interesting to know how it turns out. I'd suggest starting with an A/B in order to avoid getting particulates in the extracting solvent.

Hmmm that's definitely something I'll have to consider when we come down to it. I hadn't thought to compare vapor pressures to other solvents.

My friend had told me it evaporates "pretty fast" but clearly there are faster alternatives. It's very unlikely I'll use C2Cl4 for my first lessons if at all. Maybe it would be worth the extra precautions if big crystals are the goal, but surely there are better alternatives for that too.

5pac3mau5, chlorinated solvents are not nice and friendly and tetrachloroethylene is no exception: a suspect carcinogen, toxic to kidneys and liver, increased Alzheimer's disease risk. And it's bioaccumulative, both in you and in the rest of the environment. You simply cannot equate the toxicity of this substance to hexane in particular or aliphatic hydrocarbons in general. If you do insist of doing so, please provide proper references.

I am surprised that your friend is still making use of this chemical in dry cleaning. In most of the civilized world, this practice has been banned for ages. Its use in industry is severely restricted, only the use in strictly closed systems is allowed.

Please reconsider using tetrachloroethylene, it's simply not practical to do so in a safe and responsible manner, unless you can work in an entirely closed system. Your comment about having a free and (for practical purposes) limitless supply suggests that you will be using it in a wasteful manner, which IMHO is environmentally irresponsible.

Sep. funnel? He's already said we're on the cheap here, bro!

And at the end of the day, what would TM say?!

Sep. funnels are not in the least bit expensive, or at least they need not be.

That asides, I'd have to agree with what pitubo says - closed system or not at all. Even though it would be interesting to see the results.

So, still not that cheap then?

Thanks for the heads up, I would likely have ended up evaporating to open air. Not sure what you mean by "back salt to base extract"? Are you suggesting I convert it to a fumarate while in the solvent, pull to water, then do with the fumarate what I will?

Would you suggest I add a salt to cut down on emulsion? Or is that what you were referring to?




Just hearing those words gets my blood pumping! It's going to take quite a bit more prep/supplies than I previously thought, but I am very interested in trying it mainly just for the sake of doing it. I think I need to get my xylene A/B extraction perfected before I take on an experimental tek though But the C2Cl4 isn't going anywhere.




It's my understanding that the machines they use are allowed because they drain most/all of the solvent off of the clothing before opening to allow workers to touch them. This is only what I've gathered from what he has told me however, and I'm no expert in dry-cleaning.

He has all of the safety equipment for when the solvent needs to be replaced so if/when I actually move forward with this tek we would be using OSHA approved equipment for the purpose of exposure to C2Cl4. I feel fairly confident we would be safe and I certainly wouldn't attempt it if I thought there were risk factors unaddressed.

In regards to harming environment, we'll have to dispose through whatever way his business disposes, so the only potential harm I can forsee would be through escaped fumes. Knowing what I do now, we'll have to work out a way to prevent this. Maybe an airtight container with proper gloves over sealed holes?

As for wastefulness, the other 2 owners who won't know this is occurring, so there will have to be limits to prevent issues.




Not totally true, not totally false. Neither of us have a whole lot of disposal income (it's a family business so while he is a partial owner he won't make a decent amount until his dad retires) but I foresee this extraction being a few months out so we would have time to save up a bit. But as for why we don't just buy some naptha? Why spend extra money on something my friend has plenty of access to?

Pitubo, I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding. When I said the effects were comparable to naphtha outside of skin contact, I was referencing the acute effects seen in 100-200ppm inhalation (dizziness, fatigue, headaches, incoordination etc) and not so much the effects that have been seen in people who have had long term, relatively unprotected exposure to C2Cl4 from working with it for years.

I may have reached a bit far with my ideas on long term exposure to naphtha though, I'll admit.

Regardless, I sure as hell don't want organ failure or diziness while I'm working with such a hazardous chemical so I'm going to take all precautions necessary to keep my friend and I safe when/if we do the extraction.

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Never had it happen to me but I have been washing my solvents & drying over MgSO4 before using for the last year or so.

The part that worries me most is the fact an email like this came from a vendor.

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Perhaps an alcohol such as butanol has been added to the formula? In my locality, most "thinner" formulations consist of xylene and butanol. The butanol can be washed out with a couple of water washes until the amount of non-polar stops decreasing from water washing.

Apologies if this is a silly question or if this thread's the wrong place to post it - I'm brand, brand new here and my research hasn't been very informative.

The actual extraction of DMT seems pretty manageable to me: I have no doubt I'd be able to figure it out (the Poor Man's Tek in particular seems fairly straightforward). But actually acquiring the material to extract from, however; how is this done? Is it necessary to go and buy from third-party sources Mimosa Hostilis or Acacia to have shipped to me (this feels somehow risky), or must I forage out in the forests to find this stuff, or can root bark powder (or whatever) be purchased at a corner store, or...?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.

Hi, unfortunately your question breaks the number one rule of the Nexus:



Please see the attitude page for more information.

Ah! I had no idea discussing the procuring of tree barks was tantamount to discussing the procuring of drugs. No wonder the wikis were so silent on this topic. Thanks for the heads-up, The Grateful One.

(I would like to note that I have no interest in synthesizing or ingesting any Schedule I substances - my questions are motivated purely from academic curiosity.)

hey yall how goes it? cant believe i am now just now seeing this thread for the first time! what a great idea!

anywhoo

where can one in northern California find d-limonene? trying to do ron69's mesc. tek. I read early in this thread that orange essential oil is okay (i believe they were talking about a different tek and substance though) would that still work for mescaline? if so any recommendations as to which kind?

many thanks and happy friday!

care to share?! ive been looking all over?! this would greatly be appreciated!