Because convection applies the heat directly over most of the surface area everywhere.
Conduction heats up the sides of the bowl, which toasts the contact points, but the entire inside of the bowl get cooked very slowly and at a lower temperature.
So if salvinorin is hard to vaporize, you need the powerful convection ones.
Conduction vapes are much slower at extracting everything (it usually takes about 4-10 times more hits to finish a conduction bowl compared to convection).
And you also usually need to wait between hits for the bowl to reheat again.
So if you need to vape something at a very high temperatures very quickly, convection is the way to go. To heat the insides of the bowl to the right temperature by condcution the bowl could char and ignite on the contact with the hot plates. And the slow speed of condcution vapes would make breakthroughs impossible (but if you want a mild and longer experience you might be able to achieve that with a conduction vape).

Convection vapes are like joints and convection vapes are more like bongs.
And I'm prefering convections for basically the same reasons as why bongs are better for salvia than joints. Both is smoking, but the bong is going to work much better.

Also all the reports of vaping salvia I've seen:
Conduction - everyone reported a failure or very weak effects.
Convection - Amazing success or mild success at worst.


Vapcap is partially a convection vape, it heat up quickly, it's strong and coold down quickly. I think vapcap might also work well. But not as powerful as pure convection desktops.

Yes I also got the idea of VG being possible, but didn't include it because of the difficulty.


As I said, it's wattage controlled so it doesn't really make sense to rate any specific temperature to it. Maybe it means that's the temperature you get on an average hit, but if you hit it slower it will be hotter. I can ignite a bowl on any 7+ setting if I hit it slow enough. Also I have vaped salvia on 8, then 9, then 10. All wattages worked equally well, I think 10 would allow me to pull faster to get same results as 8, which I think could fail if I hit it too fast.

Salutations Skr_Nexus,

The recent illustrations about microscopic Salvia Divinorum trichomes (2019-Jan-14, 2019-Aug-22) captured my attention on sight because it seems these last few years i happened to involve myself into some similar challenge, except mine are cannabis trichome glands floating in a sea of shredded vegetal debris as pictured below:

...

Please accept my sincere apologies Skr_Nexus, as i do not wish to make it look like i intended to distract your readers by flooding the thread with a long series of look-alike pictures, though i'm afraid the system won't allow me to post a simple animated (.GiF) superposition instead...

So, looking at the center area it should become obvious those trichome glands are much smaller than the surrounding pieces of vegetal tissue. This made me want to target them differentially on the basis of relative contact surfaces in absence of thermalization (e.g. i believe slow/steady schemes eventually cause secondary heat reactions leading to global pyrolization ultimately).

My solution is to explore some aspects of "Pulse Heating" as demonstrated during the late eighties in IH-driven Pyrolysis Gas Chromatography applications, for example:

[ https:// onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jhrc.1240110412 ]
Rapid characterization of spices and herbs by direct heating sample introduction using a curie‐point pyrolyzer

...

There's a lot yet to be accomplished but i've already acquired some fair perspective on what i call "Micro-Bursting", which i presume to differ from the Erowid sublimation experiment because i rely on convective/radiative heat vectors instead of simple conduction mode.

Anyway IMO the 277° C goal is totally possible, it's just a matter of "Releasing" trichomes to render them airborne 1st, then secondary heating shall remain an option for further heat processing if desired/necessary. The final objective would be to effectively target tiny objects, in opposition to ovenizing the whole mass as in thermostatic Hot Dry Air vaporizers.

By chance Dan Steinberg, inventor of the VaporGenie, was quite correct to select space-age technology under the form of Silicon Carbide foam (refered to as a "Flame Filter" by VG), my regret being that research & development practically came to a halt. Which feels most unfortunate to me considering he already had imagined the next step quite a long while ago, by also including what i came to tag his "forgotten item of fig. 11/12" (ref.: patent US 7434584 B2).

Perhaps you might prefer to move eventual subsequent discussions related to VG Hybrid Cores by visiting my dedicated thread linked below:

DMT Nexus: Semi-DiY Pulse-Heating transformation (based on VaporGenie Classic/Bronze Sherlock) [2019-May-14]

Here's how it's meant to work in the context i've evoked above:


[ http://oi66.tinypic.com/4jktwi.jpg ]

TC1 and TC2 correspond to the Curie temperatures of 2 different alloys while P1 is a "PinHole" providing controlled injection of fresh air above the associated bowl. In pulsed mode those Curie points are only intended to determine how much energy gets temporarily stored in each stage of the Hybrid Cores, which i call "Heat Charges".

The plan is to adjust that set of "Packetized" Heat Charges in order to differentially transfer sufficient "Release" energy to trichome glands BEFORE it has time to cause significant overall thermalization as well... The auxiliary Hybrid Core then shall function as a heated filter where condensates are expected to gradually accumulate after a few sessions. If/when clogging occurs then it's simply a matter of reversing the capsule so its heater becomes a filter and vice-versa, effectively implementing some self-cleaning concept doubled with convenient reclaiming + improved "conservation" (since the bowl is rapidly cooled off between tokes). Etc., etc.

Good day, have fun!!

Ok, thanks for the info. One thing I noticed that may be of difficulty with the e-nano is how the loose and fine herb you pack in to the chamber would just fall on to the heating element protector screen (supposing you are vaping right side up and not flipping it upside down on to a bong). While this may not be a problem with fluffy sticky marijuana, it would be with salvia's fine flakey consistency that would just fall down on to the screen and perhaps combust? do I have this correct? Have you encountered this problem? How do you vape usually?

Also, if you were to say unplug it and transport it to the other side of the room, how long would it stay hot enough to vape from?

I for one manage to vaporize salvia divinroum both in convection and conduction pipe ( had a light bulb designed pipe form smarshop in whihc I tarted vaporising pure isolated salvinorin A crystals ). True that it might be stronger in bong coz of higher temp.. but its also a lot less traumatizing or heelish trip for some. I also played with synergies as usual and my favorite so far is with muscimol mushrooms (oral muscimol mushrooms tea, and vaporized salvinorins )

Contant with the heater screen could toast SLIIIGHTLY more, but it's really minimal or not any hotter at all, as I have never ingnited a bowl just because it touched that screen.
The screen is also very fine and of very small area, so powdered particles falling through should also be minimal - much less than with a Mighty, Volcano, EQ for example.
If any such particles do fall through the screen they will probably combust in the heater and release a tiny ammount of smoke. The heater is far away enough from the screen and bowl that such combustion of fallen through particles could not ignite the bowl itself.
Also I do vape with a water piece, so it's inverted and nothing can fall in the heater.
The first time I have vaped it upright with a simple straight dry mouthpiece (power and it worked as well, and also no combustion.


I think if you were fast enough you could vape one bowl while preheated and unplugged. But it would just be better plugged in, especially if you want high temperatures for vaping salvia. It a very tiny vape after all so I think it couldn't remain preheater for very long. You can always exttend the cable if it cannot reach the socket.


Sure pure crystals can be vaporized by conduction (although I would expect it to take a little longer than convection vaping of tiny trichomes).
I am thinking of vaping salvia leaves when I say conduction might perform poorly.
The heat would have to travels through the leaf matter passively to get to th trichmoes and incoming air would be cold and cooling it down even further.

I thought I'd add some initial test results from this weekend.

I have a box-style vape (an old Vaporwarez one, like the old Vapor Brothers boxes) which uses a whip. I don't know what the max temp is on the ceramic heating element, but I know that if I have the temp up and I draw slowly I can very easily burn cannabis (I'm not sure if I've ever had it fully combust or not though).

I maxed the temp, put some crushed plain leaf (maybe 150mg?) in the whip and inhaled with a long, medium-speed inhalation...and it worked :-) It wasn't as intense as if I'd smoked the same amount, but I definitely crossed that threshold of getting detached from my body and saw my thoughts twist a bit. It was more than I was expecting, and I was pleasantly surprised.

The next night, I tried again with the same leaf that I used the night before to see if it was spent or not. It worked again, but not quite as strong as the initial night.

This week I hope to do a more detailed test where I measure the amount of leaf, and might also test some of my home-made ~8x leaf.

I'll report back after some more tests...

EDIT: I measured the leaf in the whip this evening and it is about 100mg. Only about half or less looked browned, so maybe there is still some left.

Yes, pretty mucih all these simple wattage controlled ceramic heater direct draw vapes are like this. My E-Nano included. And all of those should techically work. I think the E-Nano might be more effective thanks to it's tiny bowl which concentrates the hot airflow to the bowl much better than the bigger ones and therefore the E-Nano is able to vape more % of the bowl in one hit and faster tahn the bigger ones. But also I can't load a big bowl into it which could be a downside if I wanted to vape a lot in one go.


Well I would expect it to be stronger than smoked, not weaker. But you have already gotten high again form it, so that explain it. And YM explanation above could also explain why. My E-Nano has a very narrow bowl so the hot air hits prettty much everythign evenly and therefore vapes pretty much all of it in one hit without stirring. The bigger bowl like yours could redirect the hot air to pass thorugh cetain point more than others and leave hot spots that were charred and cold spots that have not been vaped and need to be stirred and hit again. Maybe you will get better result with your vape if you stir and take another hit right after the first one. So you get everythign or at least most of it in one trip.


I don't have extracts and I'm not about to make any. I have no idea how well those would work in a vape so I am excited to see the results on this.


You salvia is green? It usually turns brown when drying. So I can't really tell how much it's vaped based on color.

SD is so potent. Extract, plain leaf, smoked, will "work" for most.
Fresh or rehydrated leaf, quidded, also!

Peace

My stuff is brown as well, but it just looked like some of it was more 'browned' after the heat than the rest. I'll recheck the next time I put in fresh leaf...maybe I didn't see what I thought I saw.

(Side-note...when I grew and dried my own leaves by cutting out the stems and rolling them up in paper towels, they did actually stay somewhat green for several months after drying.)

I decided to just keep trying this 100mg batch one hit at a time until it no longer produces. Last night, I took my third hit, and this time I heated it more than before (accidentally), so it was harsher and a bit burned. But I had as strong of an experience as the first night I tried it...maybe stronger. Will find out soon if there is even more left or not...

That's an interesting theory about the smaller bowls being more effective for this. I'm not sure if I can do much to funnel the airflow down in my whip, but am interested to see if the extracts will be able to be completely used up in a single inhalation.

I feel like I'm getting like at least 75% of all the available salvinorin in the first hit. Never did the second one by itself, always right after the first one, but I've always felt the first one me hit me strong and then the second hit never felt like it added anything.



Not sure if you can really improve your vape's efficiency to mirror my E-Nano, narrowing thebowl might help somewhat. Using extracts won't change anything except fir a bigger dose in the same bowl. But it won't make your vape to extract it in one hit if it failed at that with plain leaf.

Just letting you know my dynavap vapcap arrived finally and i tested in with SD. Works and absolute treat! it roasts perfectly all over, no cool spots. Perfect brown.

I have been using a dual flame jet lighter to heat the cap but this isnt as effective as an induction heater. I usually heat 2 seconds past the click and get everything in 2 clicks. Sometimes I slightly char it slightly (brownish/blackish) because I went over slightly, with a water piece though this is not an issue and is the smoothest hit around.

It's also completely portable, not that i'd want to do large salvia doses anywhere besides my room. It lacks in that it isn't as aesthetically pleasing as a desktop unit with heaps of airflow. I won't be going back to VG anytime soon.

Awesome, thanks for the report, each report like this makes a better case for vaping SD, and it also makes me feel better about recommending vapcap to people who wants to try vaping even though I have no first-hand experience with that particular vape, only a memory of many many glowing reviews and zero negative ones.

Yeah I think that one is getting old and with how much the vaping tech has developed in the past 10 years, it should be getting overcompeted by some of the newer ones. The easier to use and more performant, and cheaper they become, the more people will start using them and getting all those health/taste/efficiency benefits. Hopefully vaping will survive the fearmongering happening lately in the USA (seeing the "vaping kills" message pushed everywhere makes me mad and it might be as dangerous as spreading anti-vax conspiracies as both are literally saving millions of even billions of lives), I would really hate to see vapes getting banned and people going back to smoking because few people died for what I think wasn't even really fault of vaping.

Don't we love the Ska Maria. I'll preface my comment with, "OK Boomer".
This thread evades me. Torch lighter(or common butane), over SD extract or plain leaf...ZIPPER!
Once habituated to smoalked extract, quids will bring it. Vape leaf or enhanced leaf, why? Maybe crystalline Salvinorin A.

Peace

Healthier, tastier, more efficient. All the reasons why I consider vaping superior in every regard and less disrespectful to the plant than other methods.
That would be super potent not even my mg scale could dose it and it would be hard to vape such a tiny buzt concentrated ammount. Vaping leaves is easy and just the right strength to be effective in small bowls.
LOL, I'm technically a millenial, and I'm the one bringring the progress whiel you are advocating for the ancient methods. I should be the one replying this to you.

I think Legarto Rey was saying this to himself for you ;-)


Although quidding is my favorite method, I don't always have an hour to commit. But I might have half an hour...and vaping is perfect for this. And much nicer than smoking...which always ends up giving me phlem a day or two later.

Talking of pioneers, guess when "IH" standing for Induction Heat still wasn't a popular acronym...

I've wanted to replicate that one 40mg experiene staring at a fractal desktop turning 3d and merging with it, because I remember it actually felt nice, like a weird, but pleasurable reality slicing massage.
The fractal I linked was removed from the internet so I found a different but similar one:
https://img.wallpapersaf...0/1700/26/42/wZX6xj.jpg
And I took the same 40mg. And only felt it very subtly, like my arms feeling weaker, or legs feeling very subtly wobbly when standing.
I realized this was not going to be enough, so I quickly followed with another 40mg.
Sitting didn't feel right, so I laid down on my bed, aaaand...
...this expererience turned out to be mostly the typical salvia confusion.

As I stared into the ceiling, I basically jsut forgot where I am and what I'm doing.
I was halway on an imagined autopilot in a scenario where I was trying to do something in my room, but was very confused even at that couldn't remember what I was supposed to do, then I remembered that I wasn't actually trying to do anything, and I was jsut laying in my bed the whole time staring into the ceiling. But I also slightly felt the pleasurable slicing of those imagined "realities" cutting through my own. And I still felt disappointed and decided to take the rest, which was 55mg of fine poweder, the bottom of the tiny jar, likely had some salvia kief in it too. So I was a little scared if it will be stronger than expected, but when I'm still on salvia comedown and want more it kinda erases that anxiety and I can just take it like nothing.

This third 55mg hit was the one that finally replicated that previous trip I wanted to replicate, and even stronger. It was awesome, but also a little disappointingly weak, at the peak I wished to go a little deeper and feel it stronger.

I tried to remind myself that I'm not supposed to do anything but lay down and enjoy the trip (trying to not get myself into that confusion from 5 minutes ago). Well I still got a little confused, but at least I kept looking at the fractal...
It did a similar thing as before. It became 3D, the center like a tunnel in the distance, felt like it continued beyond the screen and all the way around me, with straight lines cutting it like a pie chart and the 3D continuation of it like into a citrus shape, each slice had a mild visual reality in it, I think an array of houses and a sidewalk or something.

I was confused and not understanding what I'm looking at, then I realized I'm looking at the screen and that the slices were all in my head, but still felt the visuals fading in my imagination even if I didn't really see them anymore and the fractal was inside the screen again.

I still saw the lobes on the fractal move, each one was just moving back and forth on its own, so the the whole fractal looked very wobbly and 3D with each lobe detached. I was still feeling the wobbles and slices of the fractals in my body, as if my body was inside one of those slices with the other other ones sliding around. It felt the same salvia massagey way as before that I liked. Does anyone else like those physical salvia feelings like cutting realities and deforming/stretching. The word sound painful, but it isn't painful at all, as I said, it feels like weird pleasurable massage from the fourth dimension.

Also does anyone else get that anti-anxiety effect? Because I remember mostly seeing the opposite in repost, that salvia makes people scared and anxious. So far it never did that to me, and kinda the opposite. The huge and rapid confusion that it causes when I suddenly don't remember nor understand what I'm doing, where I am and what's happening - should be scary. But I'm so confused that I don't even know if it's supposed to be scary or not, so I jsuit have no emotional reaction whatsoever. I'm just frozen, confused and then I remember and start enjoying it. And if it was weak, I want more and I'm not scared of hitting it again at all (but before the hit I do have the pre-flight anxiety).

People say that that Psychs are mroe euphoric and salvia is dysphoric and scarier. Salvia has so far always been neutral or euphoric for me. I never had a bad trip or unpleasant feelings from salvia. I have had multiple bad trips and unpleasant feelings on Psychedelics and they are generally much more scary or challenging to me even during good trips. But on DMT, I also had few much more pleasurable and beautiful trips than salvia. But also few very uncomfortable and challenging ones. Psychs make me think a lot possibly going into some heavy existential or anxiety territory. Salvia makes me stop thinking and relax and go with the flow even if I completely forget and stop understanding what is going on.

*taps forehead* can't have a bad trip if you're just not thinking and processing anything that's going on (there is still a train of though or even many in parallel thinking weird psychedelics thoughts, but it's dissociated from me and I just don't understand any of those sentences, so they can't bother me). Psychedelics make me feel like everything makes sense even if it gets completely alien, while salvia makes me feel like abosolutely nothing makes sense even if it's completely simple and normal, but it will get alien without me even have a chance at noticing.

But I know that I'm still only taking small doses, I shouldn't get cocky and confident that I'm immune to bad trips on salvia. Maybe I'm immume to them on low doses, the large ones still havea reputation of insane intensity, so I should be careful I think.

Just a dumb question how did you consume that 40+40+55 mg? Just swalloed it or intranasal or neither of those Oô Guess you dont talk about vaping?

3 bowls in the E-Nano vape, few minutes apart.
Why would you guess it's not vaping?
This thread is literally about vaping.