Can a dissociative teach anything?
Also can someone describe what a "dissociative" actually is. I hear it a lot, and have always been interested in it. At first I thought it would be like a different kind of psychodelic or something.

it's not

really, it's not.

psychedelic means 'mind manifesting'. dissociatives dissociate mind from body, thus the out of body experience.
pharmacologically, dissociatives antagonize NMDA, and inhibit glutamate. that's essentially turning the mind off.

classic psychedelics stimulate the mind via binding serotonin receptor, serotonin is an excitatory neurotransmitter.

Before I came to the conclusion that only plant-drugs are for me I took a little bit of everything.

I didn't just come up with that idea out of nowhere...

but can't a lot be learned from an out of body experience?
and is salvia dissociative?

not really.



salvia has dissociative qualities
it's a kappa-opioid agonist, which would make it an effective painkiller if it weren't so odd and disorienting.

DXM and other dissociatives may feel euphoric in a mind-numbing way, but they're not particularly enlightening.

An "out-of-body" experience that you'll receive from DXM, Ketamine, or PCP is a lot different from a "out-of-body/religious experience" that you'd get from mushrooms, or DMT, LSD etc.

With DXM and Ketamine (I speak from too much experience) its almost as if you've had your head taken off your shoulders and punted down a long, deep dark hallway by a professional football player. Everything is chaotic, and extremely random without any intellectual capability or understanding. It turns your brain off, makes you a zombie, and chances are you'll blackout a decent sized chunk of any memories you have while being on the drug.

With DMT and Mushrooms, you can ask just about anybody here, it is an absolute, and completely different experience that is so much more beneficial, rather than degrading.

Tried dxm (the stupid things we do to get high) when i was much younger - seems im one of the unlucky few who suffers froma toxic reaction to it - i was in hell - poisonous lava running thru my veins, intense pain, burning skin, the walls were on fire.
Next day i woke up looking like the oros man - so swollen my eyes could barely open, red skin - this was the first and last time i ever tried to get high off some stupid pharmaceutical.
Ppl here(za) dont take medicines to get high - its kinda looked down on very very much - like hobos drink cough syrup, but after spending so much time online - reading of ppl doing it - i forced a change in attitude (to allow me to do it) - hah, should have listened to myself.
Never again - the jungle/desert provides us with all we need.

I definitely don't consider dissociative's psychedelics.

But SWIM does find them all somewhat enjoyable. DXM and PCP not so much but ketamine IM SWIM thinks is one of the most fascinating experiences SWIM ever had. Its really interesting to see what your consciousness does when everything starts turning off.

Careful with Ketamine. Seems to be getting pretty popular in the UK, and they're seeing possibly permanent memory issues and serious bladder problems arising. People have had to have their bladders removed and whatnot, sounds pretty terrible. I can track down the articles if you like, IIRC it was BBC.

You sure its ketamine causing this? Ketamine is a rather safe anesthetic overall. Abuse isn't good but its not nearly as harmful as something like PCP.

I have heard that it attacks the lining of the bladder before elsewhere, not sure of the source though. I find it a bit disturbing that is as popular here in the UK as it is.

I know of a friend of a friend down South who has been severely addicted to ketamine for quite a few years...he seems to have a bit of a death wish. The ketamine has eaten a hole in his stomach lining, and the doctors that treated him told him if he doesn't stop his use he's going to kill himself. And yet he continues to fiend it as much as he ever did.

Personally I don't consider this class of drugs as legit psychedelics, or as useful or safe as this class of substances.

Here are the BBC articles
Memory
Bladder problems

And here's another research paper on the bladder issue, this time on patients from Hong Kong.


Burnt, to more directly answer your question: No, I am not sure. I lack the scientific expertise to make that kind of judgment. However, I feel that people who may someday be interested in the drug are obligated to investigate such matters. Hope this is helpful.

Well ketamine is certainly addictive and I would expect not nice side effects from constant abuse. So its not really a big surprise. Anyway SWIM hasn't touched the stuff in many many years but remembers enjoying IM experiences very much. SWIM thinks most people get a bad vibe from ketamine because they use it the wrong way (at parties, or even snorting isn't the best way to go). Anyway thats all.

SWIM has on occasion used DXM out of curiosity. It's not enjoyable really. It detaches you from everything and makes it seem like nothing is important. You get into a foggy head state, there are visual effects, and the like, but the entire trip feels like your just out of it, not able to focus, just sort of drifting, as if about to fall asleep. It has no real qualities I would say are positive.

DXM is for people that want a mental vacation, an escape from the mind, not a journey into the mind. In that respect it's not psychedelic at all. It's the opposite of a psychedelic. The only thing it shares with true psychedelics is that there are visual effects.

SWIM has a whole bottle of these things in pure form and doesn't know what to do with it. They are not very effective as cough medicine. SWIM has no idea what to do with them.

Does DXM go well with anything that is actually psychedelic?

I've had ket on many occasions but have never tried dxm or pcp.
They are supposedly similar to ket but what stands out as different?



Agreed that it can be interesting but to me it's often not very plesant.
Feeling your whole face go numb to the point that it looks/feels like someone who had to much plastic surgery.
Walking on stilts.
Hahaha!

No deep insights tough, at lest for me.
but it can still be a good laugh=)



I read up on that long ago and from what I can remember that only accounts for chronic user of ket.

just found this bladder article
http://www.hkmj.org/article_pdfs/hkm0708p311.pdf

PCP is very spacey thats all SWIM can remember.

DXM is 'sickly' kinda. It makes you high and all but your body feels well like it drank too much cough syrup even if you take it pure SWIM still gets a very sickly feeling. Although it was fun a few times like 10 years ago



For SWIM the only way to 'get' something constructive out of ketamine was to IM it in a comfortable setting (home). Snorting it can't take you to the same place (SWIM tried). Snorting is fine for a recreational dose with a beer on a couch or to combine with something like MDMA or a tryptamine. They combine well SWIM thinks. In the same way that N2O does except much longer lasting and well different but similar.

But anyway for learning something IMing and going into the K-hole can be very interesting. SWIM remembers vaugely the first time doing K via IM. SWIM thinks SWIM was remembering being born or being really young or some other memories that SWIM can't verify or remember any other way. It was really interesting. Also coming back into your body is interesting because your awareness slowly comes back. Its really fascinating to be able to shut off the connection between your consciousness and the rest of your body. But doing it to shut out only is a good way to get hooked and destroy reality.

Plus SWIM had a couple OBE's which was interesting because now SWIM knows all the stories about OBE's that think its real are total BS.

Ketamin can cure severe depressions. This was discovered by accident, when some mental patients underwent surgery and ketamine was used as anestheatic. It has simmilar effects as electroshock therapy and whether the users counsciously experience a ketamine trip or whether they're fully sedated makes no difference in it's effects in this matter.

Ibogaine and other dissociatives probably have simmilar effects, since it's discovered that the glutamate receptor activity is responsible for this remarkable effect of ketamin.

Do you classify ibogain as a dissociative?

I wouldn't call ibogaine a dissociative... far from it.

I have heard from others than ibogain has some dissociative effects..but it also has seratonergic effects.. I have heard some people compare some aspects of it to salvia and ketamine, mixed with a visionary tryptamine..

Seems to be completely unique from what I have read..One day I will find out for myslef.